Camping in online gaming
coil
Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
in Off-Topic
It seems one of the loudest cries heard in online FPS's today is "F'ING CAMPER!!" For those of you who have been living under a rock since 1985, "camping" is the act of remaining in a well-protected location and putting a bullet between the eyes of any poor idiot unlucky enough to come into your line of sight, preferably with a high-power, scoped rifle.
For some reason, this activity has become defined as a Very Bad Thing To Do.
My question is, why? The way I see it, an effective sniper is not lucky - he's skilled. Sure, any Jack n00bie can get one or two kills/round with an AWP before he gets perforated by an enemy's mp5, but I'm talking about the guys topping the scoreboards, who buy an AWP once and don't die after that. I admire these players for two simple reasons: they don't miss, and they don't die.
Of course, many people see them as "campers." Yes, that's exactly what they're doing - they're finding a nice sniping hole (or 3) and picking people off. When did that become against the rules? If Gooseman hadn't wanted people sniping enemies from 200 yards out, he wouldn't have put multiple sniper rifles in the game.
What makes a good sniper?
1) location. A sniper knows where his enemy will be coming from, and where the best spot overlooking that area is. A *good* sniper knows when it's in his best interest to leave his roost and find a new spot.
2) judgement. A sniper has to lead his target so his finger is steady when his opponent's head enters the crosshair... even when that opponent is running, jumping, or trading fire with another player. If you got shot through a crate by a sniper, it may have been luck; it may have been an excellent guess of where your head was likely to be.
3) reflexes. A sniper has one chance to get his target. If he misses, he's given away his position and is probably vulnerable while chambering the next round. Sometimes, a sniper only *gets* one shot... without the reflexes to take it when it presents itself, he fails.
4) awareness. A sniper's greatest asset is that his opponents do not know where he is. But he has to assume that eventually he will be found, and must be alert at all times for approaching hostiles.
In my opinion, people really don't have an excuse to be angry at someone who has those attributes, and is therefore a successful sniper. What can be done to combat a sniper?
Believe it or not, Counterstrike is supposed to be a tactical game. Some tactics to use against snipers:
1) Move at a *walk* to avoid detection; this applies both to moving around the map and approaching a sniper nest.
2) Move in groups so if one of you goes down, the chances are your teammate saw it happen.
3) Flashbangs can blind a sniper, allowing you to take him out or at least get past his kill zone. Grenades can kill him.
4) Two words: counter-sniper. Communicate.
4) *Check* before running out into the open. You know the map; you know where a sniper is likely to be hiding. If he catches you by surprise, it's just him taking advantage of your rashness. Don't give him the chance to take the shot.
By the way, snipers who use hacks are exempt from any protection I will offer. Natural skill is obviously far removed from cheating.
<!--EDIT|coil|Oct. 14 2002,01:07-->
For some reason, this activity has become defined as a Very Bad Thing To Do.
My question is, why? The way I see it, an effective sniper is not lucky - he's skilled. Sure, any Jack n00bie can get one or two kills/round with an AWP before he gets perforated by an enemy's mp5, but I'm talking about the guys topping the scoreboards, who buy an AWP once and don't die after that. I admire these players for two simple reasons: they don't miss, and they don't die.
Of course, many people see them as "campers." Yes, that's exactly what they're doing - they're finding a nice sniping hole (or 3) and picking people off. When did that become against the rules? If Gooseman hadn't wanted people sniping enemies from 200 yards out, he wouldn't have put multiple sniper rifles in the game.
What makes a good sniper?
1) location. A sniper knows where his enemy will be coming from, and where the best spot overlooking that area is. A *good* sniper knows when it's in his best interest to leave his roost and find a new spot.
2) judgement. A sniper has to lead his target so his finger is steady when his opponent's head enters the crosshair... even when that opponent is running, jumping, or trading fire with another player. If you got shot through a crate by a sniper, it may have been luck; it may have been an excellent guess of where your head was likely to be.
3) reflexes. A sniper has one chance to get his target. If he misses, he's given away his position and is probably vulnerable while chambering the next round. Sometimes, a sniper only *gets* one shot... without the reflexes to take it when it presents itself, he fails.
4) awareness. A sniper's greatest asset is that his opponents do not know where he is. But he has to assume that eventually he will be found, and must be alert at all times for approaching hostiles.
In my opinion, people really don't have an excuse to be angry at someone who has those attributes, and is therefore a successful sniper. What can be done to combat a sniper?
Believe it or not, Counterstrike is supposed to be a tactical game. Some tactics to use against snipers:
1) Move at a *walk* to avoid detection; this applies both to moving around the map and approaching a sniper nest.
2) Move in groups so if one of you goes down, the chances are your teammate saw it happen.
3) Flashbangs can blind a sniper, allowing you to take him out or at least get past his kill zone. Grenades can kill him.
4) Two words: counter-sniper. Communicate.
4) *Check* before running out into the open. You know the map; you know where a sniper is likely to be hiding. If he catches you by surprise, it's just him taking advantage of your rashness. Don't give him the chance to take the shot.
By the way, snipers who use hacks are exempt from any protection I will offer. Natural skill is obviously far removed from cheating.
<!--EDIT|coil|Oct. 14 2002,01:07-->
Comments
Anyway back on topic, camping is a fine tactical maneuver when trying to hold a position or trying to get some unsuspecting person so you can advance farther. But camping in a non tactical place that doesn't have any relevance to the objective and/or doesn't help your teammates is just quite lame.
But when u wait for this "excellent sniper" for 2.30 minutes, the word camping really is proven.. that is camping for me.. sitting in a spot, not often populated with any kind of weapon, not performing mission.. simply..beein scared =).
In my world, this is known as "sniping." Camping is done, usually in death matches, when one loser loads up on powerful weapons and props a tent right next to a spawn point, not even giving that poor bloke with a chaingun a chance against his big, bad rocket launcher.
Sniping is all well and good. Camping is not. Unfortunately, those who received their introduction into online FPS games through Counter-Strike, rather than Quake or Quake2, get the lines blurred. In tactical team-play games, camping is almost non-existent, because it's too hard to get into the spawn points. It becomes, instead, defending.
Keep that in mind next time someone calls you a "c4/\/\P1|\|g n00b!" And take it as a compliment. Unless, of course, you're DMing.
-Ryan!
"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
-- Joaquin Setanti
Coil got it spot on! It doesn't matter if a guy is camping behind a crate, not worrying about the objective, he is helping his teamates elsewhere complete the objetive. CS should be a much...slower game where everyone doesn't rush to the choke point in de_dust, spam grenades and rush in shooting. CS should be where 2 squads go to each spot, one at the bridge and the other in the passageway, Have the bridge people moe through and distract, yadda yadda. Now, say a CT sits behind a crate under that bridge, and picks off a few T's as he pases by, lame? or good?
So, 1/2 of the T's are dead, te bomb has been dropped. One T sneaks into the CT bombsite B and hides behind a box. The CT's figure out that the bomb is not moving, and go on a manhant. They sneak around and blam blam, 2 of them die. they zero in on their target and throw a nade or two. Splat, he dies. Was he being a lamer camper just prolonging it? Or was he doing what any human would do, try and live?
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I suggest you guys try and play CS without doing the norm, sneaking around, doing a little camping, not throwing your grenade in the usual spots and saving them for when really needed. And don't yell at the smart guy who hid behind a box and picked you off as you walked by, why dd you run by? <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
(/rant)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes a good sniper?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->]
In the world of CS good sniper is in itself an oxymoron...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
1) location. A sniper knows where his enemy will be coming from, and where the best spot overlooking that area is. A *good* sniper knows when it's in his best interest to leave his roost and find a new spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone knows where the enemy is coming from, normally there are 3 or less places to goto in any given map, a newbie with no nuts can get a good location.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
2) judgement. A sniper has to lead his target so his finger is steady when his opponent's head enters the crosshair... even when that opponent is running, jumping, or trading fire with another player. If you got shot through a crate by a sniper, it may have been luck; it may have been an excellent guess of where your head was likely to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, a sniper only needs to hit the enemy in any area, not just the head. I admire scout snipers(who use a styr scout i mean), but lets face it, with the standard method of duck-and-shoot you hardly ever need to lead. Even when you do need to lead well read my respose to #3
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) reflexes. A sniper has one chance to get his target. If he misses, he's given away his position and is probably vulnerable while chambering the next round. Sometimes, a sniper only *gets* one shot... without the reflexes to take it when it presents itself, he fails.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sniping in CS reminds me of that game where the ducks or whatever move from the left and go right, and you shoot them off. I played that game when I was three, also if you miss shoot again. The awp requires 1/2 hits to kill so shoot away.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) awareness. A sniper's greatest asset is that his opponents do not know where he is. But he has to assume that eventually he will be found, and must be alert at all times for approaching hostiles.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or a sniper can sit in a corner with a crosshair aimmed at the only place the enemy can come from so even if the enemy knows where you are, they are forced to walk into your bullets.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some tactics to use against snipers:
1) Move at a *walk* to avoid detection; this applies both to moving around the map and approaching a sniper nest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So walk, as in give the sniper an even slower target to shoot at, ummm, no. How about run and jump and duck and repeat...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) Move in groups so if one of you goes down, the chances are your teammate saw it happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remebering that the awp is a 1 hit kill a newbie sniper can get off 3 or 4 shoots before anyone is in any decent range at all. Also flanking is essintial for zapping snipers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Flashbangs can blind a sniper, allowing you to take him out or at least get past his kill zone. Grenades can kill him.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I go out into the open the sniper with the crosshair aimmed at the spot I would go to throw... Bad Idea..
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Two words: counter-sniper. Communicate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
? Ahh ?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) *Check* before running out into the open. You know the map; you know where a sniper is likely to be hiding. If he catches you by surprise, it's just him taking advantage of your rashness. Don't give him the chance to take the shot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check by looking slowly around the corner just like thissss... POP DEAD....
The real anti-awp ##### guide:
Run-JumpDuck-Flank-NEVER Crouch Shoot!!-repeat
P.S. that is a bad word? Ok ill give you a hint it starts with a W and ends with an hore. How is that bad at all?
1) Move at a *walk* to avoid detection; this applies both to moving around the map and approaching a sniper nest.
2) Move in groups so if one of you goes down, the chances are your teammate saw it happen.
3) Flashbangs can blind a sniper, allowing you to take him out or at least get past his kill zone. Grenades can kill him.
4) Two words: counter-sniper. Communicate.
4) *Check* before running out into the open. You know the map; you know where a sniper is likely to be hiding. If he catches you by surprise, it's just him taking advantage of your rashness. Don't give him the chance to take the shot.
By the way, snipers who use hacks are exempt from any protection I will offer. Natural skill is obviously far removed from cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except for tactic number 1, 3, and 5, tactics 2 and 4 require teamwork--which most people lack.
I have to agree that there are some really good snipers on the FPS community. I have to admit, I’ve had times where I was pretty ###### off at a good sniper for picking me off. But that's what they are suppose to do right? So I hold no grudge. However, I hate it when players abuse the sniper rifle; I’ve seen players who use sniper rifles up close, without the zoom. That is not what a sniper is suppose to do! This happened a lot in CS and in AvP2. The biggest problem is that most teams lack cooperation to do anything so snipers usually have an advantage.
As for standing with your back to a corner and watching the only entrance, I have two responses:
1) If such a dead-end corridor exists, it is the fault of the mapper. And a grenade, flashbang, or smoke grenade could still take care of it.
2) In either of the two objective-based gameplay modes in CS, a player who does this will lose the round - the remaining player simply doesn't have to go into that corridor.
2) Move in groups so if one of you goes down, the chances are your teammate saw it happen.
3) Flashbangs can blind a sniper, allowing you to take him out or at least get past his kill zone. Grenades can kill him.
4) Two words: counter-sniper. Communicate.
5) *Check* before running out into the open. You know the map; you know where a sniper is likely to be hiding. If he catches you by surprise, it's just him taking advantage of your rashness. Don't give him the chance to take the shot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Too bad moving at a walk makes him able to see you LONG before you can see him since he can spot the first part of your body coming out of a hallway. *BLAM* *SPLAT* dead.
2) a)*BLAM* *SPLAT* dead. (Teammates): AHHH AN AWP! Fall back! b)(a short time later) "ok, let's try and take this guy *BLAM* *SPLAT* dead... go back to a) to learn how the story ends.
3) There are maybe 4 trillion jillion gabillion possible sniping locations on any given CS map (more if you can get a boost from a teammate), and last time I checked you could only buy 2 flashbangs... also any awper who can find his butt with both hands will turn when he sees a flashbang. Grenades can kill him. Yes, so can a glock... the odds are about the same since the nade doesn't usually take even half his health away and you can only carry one.
4) two words (and sound effects) "AWPER!!" *BLAM* *SPLAT* "where?" *BLAM* *SPLAT*
5) Too bad a sniper has a LOT more time to react than the guy who just spotted him, and victory for him involves moving his crosshair towards your general location and clicking the mouse button, whereas victory for you involves strafing madly becasue you can't crouch, making your gun horribly inaccurate, dodging awp bullets that are lethal in one shot anywhere but your leg, and hitting him 4 or 5 times barring a lucky headshot.
In my humble opinion, it takes a heck of a lot more skill to actually maintain accurate shots despite recoil and kill someone with a full-auto weapon than it does to point my mouse in the same general direction as an enemy and click it once... One-shot-one-kill weapons that have 100% accuracy are lame. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think staying in the same spot for an entire round with a gun ready to fire and kill anyone you see in one shot that never misses is a bit hokey. Counter-Strike is a realism mod yes, so what, I don't care... as has been so often stated on these forums, realism must be balanced with gameplay. The awp is all about realism, and it gives gameplay a giant finger... but in case no one else noticed, gameplay is what makes games fun.
the same one who hid would then camp inside the 747 (cs_747)at the top of the stairs from the cargo hold. We couldn't get him because of the door, but his MP5 could hurt us. In the end we just ran past every time and he'd waste the round for his team. Then when we were the t's in assault we waited for them (sniping both doors and the pipe) but they would get in through said pipe (the same guy used to kill me even though i was waiting inside the pipe for him) or failing that would run through the back door before we could hit them (although the same player mentioned before and anopther one kept TK'ing each other).
My point is that camping is in the definition of the individual. i've seen a person of TFC (the same one <u>again</u>) who thought hiding as a HW on the roof of our base wasn't camping!
I love being a sniper in DoD. I´ve noticed that the best way I can help my team in DoD matches is by sniping. One reason why I love sniping in DoD more than in CS is the detailness of the maps. 99% of the CS maps are plain and detail-less, while I still keep finding good places to snipe from on DoD maps. I hope that the sniper arena project will happen in the future. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Whatever game you play, you are supposed to try and get a win for your team while playing by the rules (rules arent just no cheating, they are the rules of etiquette too).
Most snipers end up hiding in a spot and waiting for the enemy to step into their crosshair. Now in real life this would be a very sensible thing to do but in CS all it does is annoy your fellow dead team mates and enemy.
In TFC snipers specialise in killing other snipers... woo great, that really helps the team out *sigh*. Snipers are only useful in games where deaths are important like CS and then they should be used in the correct way. Coil, no one minds your idea of the sniper because they wouldnt just hide in the same place and ruin the game (Im talking about hiding, not defending btw (thats for all those idiots who were about to say something about defending being good, course it is, hiding ISNT)).
Now to be truthful, it's a different story in a more tactical or realistic game in which you'll probably be needed to cover an area, sometimes by using a rifle in some hard-to-reach location. In that case, I'd definitely agree that communication and vigilance are very good ideas for dealing with snipers.