I find the marines farly supperior in combat. In NS is another story. I started out as alien when i was new. I rarly go rine in NS because of this and the fact that i hate dealing with no1 going com at the beggining. Aliens are quite good if they have any skill to speak of. Otherwise you will get 5+ ppl on your team saving for onos(which usually happens). Be a team player. Go random. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That is a problem, no one wanting to comm on a pub game. You know its going to be a bad game when everyone just rushes out of MS and no one wants to comm. I can't comm because I freeze and don't give voice orders or waypoints, merely support in buildings,upgrades, weapons and packs. Without a comm thats creates overall strat you can't win against a decent alien team.
As to the original topic : I concur with the general concensus that the perception of aliens as 'sucking' is due to the fact the aliens are a unusual team.
Bit of basics for aliens.
Skulk - ambush, hide and backbite, never rush headon (only exception is a group skulk rush in hive defense or MS attack) - I find it helps to consider the skulk as a 1 hp critter and so I must not allow the marines to even get a single shot off.
Gorge - Builder, stay in the background and support the offensive aliens - let the others clear the marines and do your bit for the teams overall effort. Building a onos repair station (group of DC's with OC cover - SC is usefull if available) near the MS is more appreciated than you getting a marine kill - the exception is of course a group gorge rush <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Lerk - flying skulk with some usefull support abilities - big thing to remeber spores do not harm heavies, only lights and jets. Umbra helps the bigger lifeforms in attacks so use your umbra to assist the onos rather than trying to rack up some kills.
Fade - Hit and run tactician - Fades will get owned if your go toe to toe with marines, even vanilla marines with LMG's, get in gets some hits run off, repeat. Distractions Fades can cause a lot of distraction with the blink...nothing gets the marines more wild than a fade blinking all around the place.
Onos - Heavy assualt unit - many Onos newbies make the mistake of considering a onos as invincible. Use the onos as a battering ram but be ready to retreat when taking too much damage. Onos is also a good distraction, as almost all firepower is concentrated on the biggest threat, a good skulk can selectivley assasinate a particularily nasty marine. (did that with cloak...went through a vent and slowly walked on the ceiling till I was under the GL spammer - guy didn't even know what hit him...I even managed to escape <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Overall if used properly aliens are a powerfull outfit, when each aliens uses its talents in combination with the other forms in a co-ordinated attack the aliens are devastating to even a skilled marine team.
<!--QuoteBegin-pyre_+Feb 29 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pyre_ @ Feb 29 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens far from suck, they require a lot more practice to play effectively. Marines have a more limited learned skillset than aliens do. The most complex nuance of marines to pick up effectively is probably the jetpack. Other than that, you really only have to know how to shoot and know how to check ambush spots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It might seem marines are the limited side, but in reality the skill range for marines is a lot higher than for aliens. You can continually improve your aim so that you stop missing and you can dominate the early game.
Aliens is mostly about good teamwork, whereas individual skill is what really matters for marines.
Ever see a good team of 10 marines who all have superb aim? Aliens get destroyed very quickly.
I'll tell you one problem I've found, that in my limited experience I could easily see causing all of these balance problems. It's that the Half-Life engine is not designed for close combat. When an alien strafes past you there is nothing you can do to keep up with him, except for perhaps not getting into the situation in the first place. But that isn't the point: when it comes down to actual fighting, aliens own marines. An equally upgraded (res-wise) alien will own an equally upgraded marine any day, except for when it is at range - and if the alien is at range, where marines excel, all the alien player need do is run back around the corner he just took. If a marine is close up, where aliens are dominant, he'd better have a shotty, high mouse sensitivity and lightning quick reflexes, or buddies shooting from a distance. Otherwise there is no competition (again assuming the same amount of res has gone into upgrading each player).
Despite that, I don't think the game is unbalanced. The point as a marine is to prevent situations like above happening too often, not winning them when they do.
The aliens are melee based because if I were Flayra, I would actually have a challenge on my hands to try and get things as closely balanced as possible between two EXTREMELY different sides. Aside from that, I don't see anything wrong with it.
And as for aliens not helping the hive under attack....well....I won't be commenting on that. Because a programmer cannot control how a player plays it overall. They can't control a player's free will. In short, they can't balance players, because they are, in programming terms, a random variable that is uncontrollable.
<!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Mar 1 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Mar 1 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll tell you one problem I've found, that in my limited experience I could easily see causing all of these balance problems. It's that the Half-Life engine is not designed for close combat. When an alien strafes past you there is nothing you can do to keep up with him, except for perhaps not getting into the situation in the first place. But that isn't the point: when it comes down to actual fighting, aliens own marines. An equally upgraded (res-wise) alien will own an equally upgraded marine any day, except for when it is at range - and if the alien is at range, where marines excel, all the alien player need do is run back around the corner he just took. If a marine is close up, where aliens are dominant, he'd better have a shotty, high mouse sensitivity and lightning quick reflexes, or buddies shooting from a distance. Otherwise there is no competition (again assuming the same amount of res has gone into upgrading each player).
Despite that, I don't think the game is unbalanced. The point as a marine is to prevent situations like above happening too often, not winning them when they do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This may sound strange to you Varsity, but it is very possible to keep up with aliens at close range and totally own them.
This is what I'm talking about. Marines who can aim can dominate very hard if aliens don't use good teamwork to overcome it.
Good teamwork such as:
- Coming from two different directions - Bait and switch - Different alien classes used in conjunction with each other
Comments
As to the original topic : I concur with the general concensus that the perception of aliens as 'sucking' is due to the fact the aliens are a unusual team.
Bit of basics for aliens.
Skulk - ambush, hide and backbite, never rush headon (only exception is a group skulk rush in hive defense or MS attack) - I find it helps to consider the skulk as a 1 hp critter and so I must not allow the marines to even get a single shot off.
Gorge - Builder, stay in the background and support the offensive aliens - let the others clear the marines and do your bit for the teams overall effort. Building a onos repair station (group of DC's with OC cover - SC is usefull if available) near the MS is more appreciated than you getting a marine kill - the exception is of course a group gorge rush <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Lerk - flying skulk with some usefull support abilities - big thing to remeber spores do not harm heavies, only lights and jets. Umbra helps the bigger lifeforms in attacks so use your umbra to assist the onos rather than trying to rack up some kills.
Fade - Hit and run tactician - Fades will get owned if your go toe to toe with marines, even vanilla marines with LMG's, get in gets some hits run off, repeat. Distractions Fades can cause a lot of distraction with the blink...nothing gets the marines more wild than a fade blinking all around the place.
Onos - Heavy assualt unit - many Onos newbies make the mistake of considering a onos as invincible. Use the onos as a battering ram but be ready to retreat when taking too much damage. Onos is also a good distraction, as almost all firepower is concentrated on the biggest threat, a good skulk can selectivley assasinate a particularily nasty marine. (did that with cloak...went through a vent and slowly walked on the ceiling till I was under the GL spammer - guy didn't even know what hit him...I even managed to escape <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Overall if used properly aliens are a powerfull outfit, when each aliens uses its talents in combination with the other forms in a co-ordinated attack the aliens are devastating to even a skilled marine team.
It might seem marines are the limited side, but in reality the skill range for marines is a lot higher than for aliens. You can continually improve your aim so that you stop missing and you can dominate the early game.
Aliens is mostly about good teamwork, whereas individual skill is what really matters for marines.
Ever see a good team of 10 marines who all have superb aim? Aliens get destroyed very quickly.
Despite that, I don't think the game is unbalanced. The point as a marine is to prevent situations like above happening too often, not winning them when they do.
And as for aliens not helping the hive under attack....well....I won't be commenting on that. Because a programmer cannot control how a player plays it overall. They can't control a player's free will.
In short, they can't balance players, because they are, in programming terms, a random variable that is uncontrollable.
Despite that, I don't think the game is unbalanced. The point as a marine is to prevent situations like above happening too often, not winning them when they do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This may sound strange to you Varsity, but it is very possible to keep up with aliens at close range and totally own them.
This is what I'm talking about. Marines who can aim can dominate very hard if aliens don't use good teamwork to overcome it.
Good teamwork such as:
- Coming from two different directions
- Bait and switch
- Different alien classes used in conjunction with each other
then i wont try to talk you out of it ^_^