Crouching Fade, Hidden Hitbox
Mr_Charisma
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Food for though?</div> After a few strange encounters with Fades crouching, I decided to do some investigation. I'll let the screenshots speak for themselves.
Thanks to Aegis for being my monkey <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0005.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Apologies about the size.
Basically, the shots are going right through the Fade, this is not a shotgun bug, or a steam hitbox issue. I only used a shotgun for these shots as you can plainly see the shots not hitting. It does work with all other weapons.
Thanks to Aegis for being my monkey <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0005.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Apologies about the size.
Basically, the shots are going right through the Fade, this is not a shotgun bug, or a steam hitbox issue. I only used a shotgun for these shots as you can plainly see the shots not hitting. It does work with all other weapons.
Comments
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Here you can plainly see that the shots are not hitting the Fade.
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0006.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0007.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Same thing, with the Pistol.
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0008.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_angst0009.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And the HMG.
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0012.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Here, the Marine is blatently sitting inside the crouching fade.
<a href='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/fade.zip' target='_blank'>This</a> is a demo of the HMG, Knife, and GL on a crouching Fade.
From what I can see, the bug can vary, in some cases I could hit the Fade from just below the shoulders, and in other cases I coulden't hit the Fade as low as his waist, as you can see in the first images.
More thanks the Endless and Dislexus for helping me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
but it doesnt apply on all servers.
and what makes you think that?
If you coulden't understand what I said 3 times. Let me repeat myself.
When the Fade crouches, and you try to shoot the top half of it's body, the shots go straight through the model.
and what makes you think that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
because it doesnt. i havent noticed anyways
Just call me "Bumpy: things that go bump in the night" (anyone remember that show.. *sighs and remembers his innocent childhood*)
cuz Im up for seeing it in the queue (or at least addressed by a developer)
*bump*
on this bug!
As seen in this pic,
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The fade's hitbox becomes a marine's crouched hitbox when the fade crouches.
Not reproducible? Try it out for yourself with a friend in any server you like. It is 100% reproducible.
BTW, the name is a play on crouching marine, hidden hitbox. Crouching marines were a pain to kill in 1.04 due to buggy hitboxes.
Yeah, your new, aren't you?
In fact "Crouching Skulk, Hidden Hitbox" was the official title of one bug during 2.0. This is just a cheap copy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm not saying it's original, but i will say i never saw that thread <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
As for blinking, we tried a few blinking tests, it's not that big of an issue there, but a crouching blinking Fade will take less damage.
Shooting at the legs will grant hits, it's only the top half the of model that is affected.
"Crouching Marine, Hidden Hitbox" dates from as far back as November 2002. That bug title was just a cheap copy.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11988' target='_blank'>Crouching Marine, Hidden Hitbox</a>
As seen in this pic,
<img src='http://googamooga.ozforces.com.au/fade/co_faceoff0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The fade's hitbox becomes a marine's crouched hitbox when the fade crouches.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where the marine stands does not depend on the hitbox of the fade, but rather on the clipping hull. The hitbox is where you can shoot the target, the clipping hull is what makes it solid, allows you to stand on it, and prevents it from going through small gaps in the level.
The crouching clipping hull has to be the size of the marine clipping hull, for two reasons:
One is that otherwise the fade would be unable to fit through vents/low gaps and so on.
The other is that half-life is limited to only four clipping hulls. One clipping hull exactly fits the geometry of the level, what you can see on screen. This is used for grenades and other projectiles. The second is the crouching hull, used for all crouching players except the onos, and for skulks, lerks and gorges all the time. The third is the standing player hull, used for standing marines and fades, and crouching onos. Finally, the fourth hull is the large hull used for a standing onos.
The fix with hitboxes means that hitboxes can now extend beyond the size of the clipping hull, so you can hit limbs that extend beyond the solid part of the player. The fix does not change the way that clipping hulls work, as it is a hard, unavoidable engine limitation. Obviously there is some problem with the fix to the hitboxes in the first post of this thread, I'm only addressing the player standing on the fade's "head".
Perhaps the best solution to this part of the problem would be to make the crouch animation of the fade duck lower, so that it matches the clipping hull more closely?
it's still beatable, but it makes fades the dominant choice atm and therefore also makes D chambers the number one choice.
And why are all of the other hitboxes fixed except for the fade?
Flay plz fix this bug for Nadagasts sake, he will blow a gasket!
You cant just blame it on steam as we have no choice but to run it on steam. Thats like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on water...
It is reproduceable it is a bug, it must be fixed somehow. Well done for getting those quality screenshots.
I said there is nothing you can do about it except play the game