Revert Fade Ablities
Windelkron
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
<div class="IPBDescription">blink & meta</div> hear me out guys!
as long as this is the beta forum (the new s&i it looks like) ... well listen
<b>BLINK</b>
every patch, Blink gets less and less like a Blink. The original spirit of the fade is entirely gone.
The problem with the old blink was that it was very easy to get stuck and encountered collision problems - fixed with the new version, that had you travel the blink path rather than predicting the path before sending you there.
I think that the original idea of Blink can be reapproached as follows:
- Give blink a rate of fire (1 blinks/.5s, i dunno, this is arbitrary to prevent stamina drainage and accidental blinks)
- Make current blink travel 20x faster (to simulate instantaneous movement while still remaining true to 2.0's working motion system of blink)
- possibly making Fade be able to travel through players, buildings, and entities - this prevents confusion when a blink is stopped short
<span style='color:white'>----In response to complaints that this will overpower blink/fade:</span>
The point of this thread was not to make the fade more powerful. Of course I don't want to see the game unbalanced. The point of this thread is to make the fade's abilities closer to the original vision in the interest of improving 1) the atmosphere 2) the fun and 3) the allure of being a fade.
Changing the characteristics of blink wouldn't necessarily make blink more powerful; in fact, it might make it LESS POWERFUL! Think of this: with the current blink, you can look where you're going as you blink, you can round corners when you blink, you can attack while you blink (as someone said earlier), and a whole host of other things I can't be bothered to think of.
With the new old blink (instantaneous) you would be able to do none of the things I mentioned above. And it's not necessary that you should be able to do any of those things. This blink I'm proposing is just changing the ability to focus on certain aspects of the Fade (specifically, instantaneous "Blink") that have been ignored as of 2.0.
<b>METABOLIZE</b>
this one is debatable - I just think that meta should be reverted back to its original form, which absorbed incoming damage and transferred it into energy.
as long as this is the beta forum (the new s&i it looks like) ... well listen
<b>BLINK</b>
every patch, Blink gets less and less like a Blink. The original spirit of the fade is entirely gone.
The problem with the old blink was that it was very easy to get stuck and encountered collision problems - fixed with the new version, that had you travel the blink path rather than predicting the path before sending you there.
I think that the original idea of Blink can be reapproached as follows:
- Give blink a rate of fire (1 blinks/.5s, i dunno, this is arbitrary to prevent stamina drainage and accidental blinks)
- Make current blink travel 20x faster (to simulate instantaneous movement while still remaining true to 2.0's working motion system of blink)
- possibly making Fade be able to travel through players, buildings, and entities - this prevents confusion when a blink is stopped short
<span style='color:white'>----In response to complaints that this will overpower blink/fade:</span>
The point of this thread was not to make the fade more powerful. Of course I don't want to see the game unbalanced. The point of this thread is to make the fade's abilities closer to the original vision in the interest of improving 1) the atmosphere 2) the fun and 3) the allure of being a fade.
Changing the characteristics of blink wouldn't necessarily make blink more powerful; in fact, it might make it LESS POWERFUL! Think of this: with the current blink, you can look where you're going as you blink, you can round corners when you blink, you can attack while you blink (as someone said earlier), and a whole host of other things I can't be bothered to think of.
With the new old blink (instantaneous) you would be able to do none of the things I mentioned above. And it's not necessary that you should be able to do any of those things. This blink I'm proposing is just changing the ability to focus on certain aspects of the Fade (specifically, instantaneous "Blink") that have been ignored as of 2.0.
<b>METABOLIZE</b>
this one is debatable - I just think that meta should be reverted back to its original form, which absorbed incoming damage and transferred it into energy.
Comments
Your suggestions seem to make a skilled fade invunerable. 20X speed? How are you going to stop it? A skilled player will blink,swipe, blink, swipe. You'll never see them.
Isn't that the point of blink?
Anyway, if you remember 1.04, blink would always leave you facing into a wall, slightly disoriented. There's where the marines should strike.
And even if it makes fades overpowered, you can balance Blink by changing its stamina use or rate of fire. And don't forget you can always fiddle with fade health, armor, running speed, etc.
I wish I could direct you to the constellation forum - the 16 page thread I mentioned is there right on the front page.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Absolutely not on the metabolize. Have you used it lately? It is a ludicrously useful ability. You can use it to for any number of things... Making downtime between hit-and-runs virtually nil, keeping yourself at almost full armor and energy while taking down elec nodes... You can also squeeze a meta or two in after a blink during combat to offset the energy usage and get some HP back, which makes Celerity or Silence MUCH more viable choices for upgrades. Try taking Celerity and just using Metabolize every free second you have. If you're good you can just hold down the attack button all the time, default your selection to metabolize and briefly switch to blink/swipe when you need them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My beef with metabolize is that its ROF is too slow and that it can't be used if you don't have enough energy. These problems really mess up my timing on blink/swipe/metabolize combos. Instead of timing my focus swipes, I now also have time when to use metabolize. It's a juggling act that only benefits those that can master it, which means it's just going to increase the gap between newbie fades and veteran fades.
fades already have multiple options for stamina and health recharge. I wish that metabolize were replaced with something that made fades more interesting in battle. However I disagree with the idea of the damage absorbtion thing, tanking big damage is supposed to be the role of the onos. Fades are supposed to be ninja type killers, they use mobility and power to swarm around the onos taking down infantry while he rushes the guns, or alone a fade should hit and be gone before the enemy can reply. Extra damage tanking would ruin the coolness of fades imo.
I think a much better solution is improved offensive capabilities, I have always thought that a multi-target melee attack for fades would be very cool. Just picture 2 marines standing guard on the sides of a doorway. All of a sudden there is a humming sound, a blur of motion, the sound of sharp bone on metal, and then silence, the 2 marines stand there for a second in shock then fall down dead.
I think a faster blink would be interesting, just give it an attack timer and make it so you can't hold it down to fly and it would be very similar to 1.04. I wouldn't mind trying it out at least.
If you could pass through players/objects it would bring back stuck issues.
hum...
imagine just a game:
3 aliens store res to fade asap, 5 min after marines lost...
in its current state fade is really powerfull, i don't see any logical reason to make it even more powerfull, do you see one ?
invulnerable entities is not what we need in ns, it unbalance the whole game and make onos/lerk totally useless.
And current metabolize is a bug i think, one more...
Current blink is fine although celerity blink does feel much nicer. Ignoring what blink used to be it is a great ability and I see no need to make it any faster (making celerity less useful again) which would also make it less controllable. I can only imagine what 20x current blink speed would be....
its impossible for the fade to be blinking if he is swiping... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
as it is now the fade is not a fast hit n run killer... its a fast flie n flie away killer which i think is VERY wrong, that should be the lerk, NOT the fade.
Not as such. Blink works pretty much like leap now. It propels you forwards from one area. It's no big deal to switch to swipe halfway while the momentum from the blink is still moving you. It's not like you switch to swipe and suddenly drop like a rock and stick on the ground.
Make fade invisible while blinking.
Make blink take very low energy.
Give blink a 2-3 second cooldown time.
hum...
imagine just a game:
3 aliens store res to fade asap, 5 min after marines lost...
in its current state fade is really powerfull, i don't see any logical reason to make it even more powerfull, do you see one ?
invulnerable entities is not what we need in ns, it unbalance the whole game and make onos/lerk totally useless.
And current metabolize is a bug i think, one more... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like fade HP/AP reduced and its abilities improved.
No, it isn't. Read the changelog.
Ahnteis, this has been discussed, any cooldown time of that length would gimp the Fade. Maybe if they are redone to be more tankish like their 1.04 versions it would work, but not currently.
No, it isn't. Read the changelog.
Ahnteis, this has been discussed, any cooldown time of that length would gimp the Fade. Maybe if they are redone to be more tankish like their 1.04 versions it would work, but not currently. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've mentioned what -- 4 times in this thread -- that it has been discussed. No news there.
I really don't like the fade currently though. There's a huge learning curve in being a fade. You either suck, or you are an unholy terror (or very close to one).
I completly agree.
I think the main problem right now is that blink can be used many times in rapid sucession to make the fade near-invulnerable. As much as it pains me to say it, blink needs to take up a lot more energy or have a firing delay.
Only if your a noob. I've seen fades EASILY wipe out 4 marines with level 3 shotguns. If your a good fade and you know what your doing, dying is almost impossible.
blink/meta/swipe/retreat/repeat = gg fades.
Only if your a noob. I've seen fades EASILY wipe out 4 marines with level 3 shotguns. If your a good fade and you know what your doing, dying is almost impossible.
blink/meta/swipe/retreat/repeat = gg fades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
More like blink in, slash once, blink away with 50 hp while the marine gets medspammed
Unless the marines are noobs that can't aim that is
Did you actually read the whole post? Fades DO fall fast to high level weapons, if they don't get out of the way. Taking away the ability to get out of there would make them worthless.
I can only imagine what 20x current blink speed would be.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you played 1.x, you would know - essentially instantaneous.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>Schmurfy</i>
3 aliens store res to fade asap, 5 min after marines lost...
in its current state fade is really powerfull, i don't see any logical reason to make it even more powerfull, do you see one ?
invulnerable entities is not what we need in ns, it unbalance the whole game and make onos/lerk totally useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point of this thread was not to make the fade more powerful. Of course I don't want to see the game unbalanced. The point of this thread is to make the fade's abilities closer to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2704&view=findpost&p=34668' target='_blank'>original vision</a> in the interest of improving 1) the atmosphere 2) the fun and 3) the allure of being a fade.
Changing the characteristics of blink wouldn't necessarily make blink more powerful; in fact, it might make it <b>LESS POWERFUL!</b> Think of this: with the current blink, you can look where you're going as you blink, you can round corners when you blink, you can attack while you blink (as someone said earlier), and a whole host of other things I can't be bothered to think of.
With the new old blink (instantaneous) you would be able to do none of the things I mentioned above. And it's not necessary that you <b>should</b> be able to do any of those things. This blink I'm proposing is just changing the ability to focus on certain aspects of the Fade (specifically, instantaneous "Blink") that have been ignored as of 2.0.
Ideally, momentum would be killed as soon as blink ended, so blink would indeed be blink instead of Leap 2.0. I imagine fade durability would need to take quite a hit, but it'd make the species much more interesting. There'd be no startup/cooldown time, obviously, as the point would be to keep your relatively fragile self next to a marine just long enough to take a chunk out of his backside. Equally obvious is that there would be no attacking or metabolizing while blinking.
I'd like actual controls to be a little like the lerk's flight. Current blink seems to naturally rise upwards a bit - it'd be better to stay level unless you looked upwards or downwards. I wouldn't want blink to be an superfast invisible run speed, though, as then you've limited things to one plane. In fact, you could actually compare "my" blink to a faster, invisible, invincible lerk with bad mileage, I suppose.
Effectively, from a marine's point of view, a fade would vanish for a moment and reappear somewhere else - much like the original blink, only more versatile, as "somewhere else" could be anywhere within a certain radius. Certainly look better than having the thing float around, too.
However, blink shouldn't go through players, structures, and so on, as then fades would get stuck at least as much as they used to.
Why not just make the fade cloaked while blinking? Like the Predator. The fade is fun to play and perfectly controllable though maybe this goes only for players that played the new fade a few times.