There are not enough textures

Justin_Case · October 2002

Either that, or everyone are using the same textures. Especially the floortextures.

nerve_GS · October 2002

Then go ahead and make some more <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Seriously, see how many fantastic and individual maps have come out of what textures have been provided. Originality can come from architecture, lighting and style, not just from texture usage.

Justin_Case · October 2002

Yeah but they would have been even more original if they had unique textures

Skrift · October 2002

No one is stopping you or anyone else from making more textures if it´s a proplem.

yesukai · October 2002

I know I find a lack of textures quite limiting. But thats why I search for Quake 3 texture sites. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Ive got well over 600 new textures at my disposal. Ill give you a couple links:
<a href="http://planetquake.com/simland/pages/tptech1/tech1.htm" target="_blank">http://planetquake.com/simland/pages/tptech1/tech1.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.deltatraining.com/relic25/" target="_blank">http://www.deltatraining.com/relic25/</a>
<a href="http://www.planetquake.com/bighouse/textures.asp" target="_blank">http://www.planetquake.com/bighouse/textures.asp</a>

That last one is a great one.

Legionnaired · October 2002

Justin, the only posts I have seen you make in this forum are ones saying how all the textures are overused. Frankly, I'm sick of it.

You most likely have no idea how much skill, dedication, or time it takes to craft a map that looks good. No idea at all.

Why don't you show us some pics of _YOUR_ map? Hmm? I bet you've never even tried.

Basicly, quit complaining. When you post some pics that blow mine out of the water, when you make <i>one</i> insightful comment, when you make one meaningful, lsting contribution to this forum, I will listen to you, and heed what you have to say.

But as of now, you're just a whiney little troll.

Lord_Frodo · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Legionnaired @ Oct. 08 2002,14:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Justin, the only posts I have seen you make in this forum are ones saying how all the textures are overused. Frankly, I'm sick of it.

You most likely have no idea how much skill, dedication, or time it takes to craft a map that looks good. No idea at all.

Why don't you show us some pics of _YOUR_ map? Hmm? I bet you've never even tried.

Basicly, quit complaining. When you post some pics that blow mine out of the water, when you make <i>one</i> insightful comment, when you make one meaningful, lsting contribution to this forum, I will listen to you, and heed what you have to say.

But as of now, you're just a whiney little troll.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
*applauds*

I really don't think you've got any reason to complain, either, Justin. The maps that I've seen so far in this forum have been absolutely GORGEOUS. One of the things I was simply dumbstruck by on Ken's "Powerhouse" screenshots was the amazing way he stuck together textures with some very complex brushes (complex from a n00b mapper's standpoint, anyway... I'll let the people who know what they're doing be the final judges on brush complexity <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>). He didn't need a whole lot of new fancy textures because he made awesome use of the ones he had. That seems to be the trend with just about every map screenie I've seen so far in this forum. And while I'm playing the game, some of the things I'm quite sure I WON'T be thinking are:

"man, this game needs more textures..."
"yep, I would be having a lot of fun now if it wasn't for the lack of textures..."
"WHOOOEEE this map is awesome!... or it would be if it used more textures!"

Greedo · October 2002

Too many textures and you lose the 'feel' of NS. These maps are awesome, and they all use the same texture sets, and they all look completely distinct. If you showed me a picture of any NS map, I could be able to tell you instantly that it was an NS map, because the textures lend a level of cohesivness to the overall map community.

Using too many custom textures can be a problem, because its the official textures (or the variants thereof) that give the map a large part of the 'atmosphere' that is <i>necessary</i> in an NS map. Yamazaki's map Penumbra was a fun map to play on, but it's almost complete use of custom textures made it so the map just didn't really feel 'right.'

There've been enough textures in the wad to produce dozens of spectacular looking levels. Cory may add more textures in the future, but for now just work with what you have. Innovation in design can go very far towards making a map original, and in fact moreso than a different texture set ever could. If you ever want to be a professional level designer, you have to be able to stretch what you have as far as it can take you.

realityisdead · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Greedo386 @ Oct. 08 2002,16:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Innovation in design can go very far towards making a map original, and in fact moreso than a different texture set ever could. If you ever want to be a professional level designer, you have to be able to stretch what you have as far as it can take you.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Exactly. If I were a game developer, I would hire a guy who can make visually appealing levels with a limited (and usually generic) set of textures over the guy who has all of his textures custom made for each and every little thing in the level. It would save money, time, and work. Besides, I personally feel that texturing this way gives the level a more natural and realistic feel, rather than a brush/plaster-texture type of thing. Don't get me wrong, a good, solid set of textures is definitely a very important thing to have (which we have with NS)... but you have to be able to stretch these textures when you don't have exactly what you need to make your level unique.

Since Frodo brought up Powerhouse, I'll use that for an example:

Almost every single texture used on the wall geometry is either labeled as a door... or an elevator.

KungFuSquirrel · October 2002

Legend Entertainment (I believe, it may be another one) recently hired the man generally considered to be the best texture artist in the entire industry. Immediately they started weeding out level designers on their staff -- based upon who asked for more textures. Those who were kept on showed the competence to take what was given to them and use them in creative and unique ways -- those who continually requested new content were clearly not of the caliber to be working with the company.

Good textures can be used in countless ways before becoming boring and overused if you have talented designers on the project -- same with UT2K3's static mesh system. NS has good textures. NS has a hell of a lot of talent.

I think I've made my point clear. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

(Oh, to clarify, they don't fire EVERYONE who asks for new textures... <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> There are always times where a custom texture is the only way to go.)

ChromeAngel · October 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ken20banks @ Oct. 08 2002,22:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since Frodo brought up Powerhouse, I'll use that for an example:

Almost every single texture used on the wall geometry is either labeled as a door... or an elevator.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
First time I played ss_nothing I kept running into the walls expecting them to open <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Please try and be more constructive with your comments in future JC.

Vyvn · October 2002

Just to voice my agreement/mindless following of everything that's been said here so far...

Back when I made my first map, I thought that I couldn't cover the walls with a texture that didn't have the word "wall" in it. It's really about flexibility--the texture 'door_horiz6' is used all over the place in several maps, like Nothing and Bast. And 'vent2' is one of the most used trim brushes in the ns.wad--and that's "supposed" to be used as a vent! Custom textures are great, and sometimes necessary, but first use up everything that you have.

HanzGruber · October 2002

Justin, how many textures would be enough for you?

516 textures in the ns.wad
and (of course not official) in my wad there is another 129

I don't know about any other mappers but for me 645 textures at my fingertips is quite an exhaustive ammount to go through...

I think you should just stop whinging...

Justin_Case · October 2002

I´m not whining. Sheesh whats wrong with you people? Something serious obviously. Anyway, did I say the maps are bad? Please, I don´t recognise me writing that, give me a quote. All I said, or was trying to say, is that it wouldn´t hurt with a bit more variation to make maps that look great, (and almost every map Ive seen so far ranges from good to excellent) even greater. In the future if you don´t like me or my posts, do yourself a favor and just stay away from them

pielemuis · October 2002

i think people took your post the wrong way, justin.I think certain people thought you were saying the maps (or texture use anyway) wasn't creative enough, but obviously you weren't saying that. I browsed the NS wad and it looks pretty varied to me. Of course having some more textures is always nice (though the NS wad is already pretty big). Creating textures isn't that easy and I don't think corry is working full time on this mod, so he might be pretty busy. It would only delay release, and new textures aren't really needed considerign you got ALOT of textures in the NS wad already. Mappers can still create their own custom textures (or ask some1 to do it for them s:)), there's nothing wrong with custom texters ASLONG as they fit in with the NS theme.I know textures are important, but you use a texture in a lot of diff ways (like ken said) and it's up to the mappers to come up with some alternate uses for a texture. The NS team just want to make sure the maps are somewhat coherent, like when some1 shows you a shot of a map, people would recognize it as NS map immediately. Don't feel bad about some of the replies justin, people jumped to conclusions again s:)

Justin_Case · October 2002

<span style='color:lightblue'><b>*nukage of a post that has already been posted*</b></span>It was decided that the post was fine, but the original was put back where it came from.

MonsieurEvil · October 2002

Well, this has gone pretty off-topic. Go to his posting in general if you want to keep chatting about forum behavior.

There are not enough textures

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