Webbing, Basics.
ZiGGY
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
Well with the lovely arrival of NS3beta2 webbing gorges are back in as a combat unit, which I havent really seen used since 1.04. Cause of this I figured I give new players a quick run down on how to web marines. I never really write guides like this as I dont feel I know enough to do such things, for similar reasons I no longer comm.
This is pretty much universally orientated around combat games due to the availibility of web, if people notice any mistakes or other amendments please PM me and Ill get straight on it(with due credit obviously).
This guide wont be very long, I will try to be as simple and practical as possible. To this end here is a table of contents:
A) Webs.
i) How web is placed.
ii) What web does.
iii) Web limits.
iv) What "breaks" webbing.
B) Gorges and webs.
i) "Static" webbing
ii) "Combat" webbing (both offense & defense)
iii) Recommended combat upgrade order for a "Combat Gorge"
C) Counters to "Combat" webbing
<b>A) i) How web is placed.</b>
Webbing is the gorge's third hive ability (ie in NS you need 3 hives or CO you need 2 ability upgrades to use this weapon). It is used by firing a series of 'blobs' at walls and other objects (afaik it doest work on some entities like handrails & marines). Once the first 2 'blobs' hit the desired walls and if there is a direct line through the air between these two points (ie no wall in the way between these two points but will go through some entities eg marines) then a strand of webbing is created which appears as a mildy transarent grey-white wobbly line. The second fired 'blob' will now be treated as one of the 'blobs' for the next bit of webbing and so on until you change weapons, at which point the 'blobs' used in making the webbing are reset. This webbing is permanent until broken.
<i>[COLOR=gray]Example: A gorge is alone in an empty cube/box all the sides are walls.</i>
The gorge fires a blob at one wall, then a second blob on the opposite wall and a third on another wall.
What happens: A strand of web is created between blobs one and two fired, as there is only air between them. When the third blob is fired a second peice of web is made between blobs two and three. When the fourth blob hits the same wall as blob three no web is created as the wall is in the way of blobs three and four.[/colour]
<b>ii). What web does.</b>
If a marine hits (walks/flys into) a web then a marine is "webbed". When a marine is webbed he:
1. Has a significantly reduced movement speed.
2. Is unable to use any weapons.
3. Cannot jump
Note: Marines can still "use" things and crouch, including the repeated crouch jump trick
This lasts roughly 3 seconds, I havent timed it.
<b>iii). Web limits. </b>
For server and balance issues only a limited amount of webbing can be placed in any one area and overall. These web limits are called the "area limit" and "web limit" respectively, though I am not aware of the exact limits(last changed in the early 3.0 betas) they are rather harsh, more on this later.
<b>iv). What "breaks" webbing. </b>
When a web is broken it disappears, makes a bubblewrap style noise and is no longer counted towards a web limit.
Things that break a web:
Marines can walk into webbing (but get webbed).
Welders.
Grenades (both kinds).
Electified buildings.
Siege cannon shockwaves.
<b>B). i). "static" webbing. </b>
Static webbing is when web is placed and left to act as a defense in conjunction with other aliens/structures. Essentially only used as a jetpack defense was customarily placed up down, wax on wax off in a zig zag fashion around hives. More information on static webbing can be found in these threads.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56131&hl=webbing' target='_blank'>Clickeh 1</a>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=12496' target='_blank'>Clickeh 2</a>
<b>ii). "combat" webbing. </b>
At last we come on to the primary point of this thread, which is web need not be used as a "static" defense, it has very powerful implications in combat.
Remember that web is formed as a line between two fired 'blobs', provided that no walls are in the way, bizzarely (as mentioned in A) i) ) it does work if there is a marine between these two points. This means that if a marine you wish to web is between the 'blobs' you fire at the time the second blob hits its target wall then the marine will be webbed instantly. With practice placing the 'blobs' in the correct positions to web a group of marines over and over again becomes quite natural. This ability to INCAPACITATE several marines at once with no chance of them recovering without backup makes web a very potent weapon, with any luck (or teamwork) your allies will be around to kill them all before you find yourself unable to web them any more. This process can then be repeated closer and closer to marine spawn until you get to a point where you can static web marine spawn and win the game.
But welders and grenades break web, how can I stop them?
Webbing from the two 'blobs' is plotted in an A to B fashion, meaning if 'blob' A is behind the marine and he runs at you firing his welder then you fire 'blob' B just infront of him the webbing will hit him in the back before hitting the welder and so he will be webbed.
Webbing genadiers proves slightly more tricky but not impossible. It requires our good old friend Mr. Corner (tm.). Now it used to be that grenade explosions destroyed your webbing 'blobs', this is no longer true (possibly a bug) so the only way to combat a grenadier with web is defensively. Place a 'blob' on the back of a corner entry way (ie a side of a door or whatever), now if he knows you were in the general vicinity he will attempt one of two things: he will either slowly push up with allies and grenade spam, or hell try to grenade you just around the corner. If he is slowly pushing it is unlikely hell do two clips on the corner and so will turn the corner and at which point you web him then proceed to the corner to web any of his allies to ensure you can carry on webbing until backup comes. Note: This works fine as a main method of defensive webbing as it is almost unnoticable.
I suck is there a general method you can give me to web marines?
Well yes, but its not great, eventually you should develop your own style, here is my generic situation webbing guide. The lines between the points I expect you to work out for yourself whilst webbing, but for small to medium sized rooms this is a very good method:
1. fire a 'blob' just above their head (whilst you are jumping)
2. fire a 'blob' just infront of their feet. (opposite side of previous 'blob')
3. Alternate steps 1 & 2 for each new marine in the room this should provide fairly smooth webbing of all marines in the room (dont take too long or the first marine will de-web!)
For jetpackers if you are struggling to web them then either practice, web infront of them or set up some static webbing on the ceiling.
Please make note and be careful of the fact that if a 'blob' directly hits a player (on either team) it will be classed as a hit but not be marked meaning youll have to fire 2 more 'blobs' to web someone.
<b>iii). Recommended combat upgrade order for a "Combat Gorge". </b>
Firstly a brief summary of all upgrades for a webbing gorge.
Regen - For combatting grenadiers and absolute must (due to the small dmg taken from greande at a respectable range), also very handy in taking general purpose dmg.
Carapace - Due to the low armour of the gorge even with its altered properties carapace proves itself very useful for giving extra hp to a gorge.
Redemption - As gorges take dmg in consistent small increments a possible luxury for people who dont want to die often.
Adrenaline - For people who want to web multiple people for long durations of time an absolute must.
Silence - Effectively reduces the amount of dmg you take slightly, and allows for a web ambush but not essential on small combat maps.
Celerity - Get around faster, run away from grenades with greater success and generally make people cry this is a great upgrade to take.
Scent of Fear - A great upgrade for the standard "Mr. Corner(tm.)" webbing style and any webbing style which involves placing one 'blob' before another.
Cloaking - Learn how to hide and ambush marines with cloaking, or even slowly walk past them then web them in the back, as the main web gorg counter is grenade spam I have my doubts of its use.
Focus- High dmg spit to quickly pop round corners and harass marines into attacking you, a nice addition to the webbers arsenal.
My recommended upgrades:
1. Leap [ability 1](leap bite kills)
2. Xenocide [ability 2](xeno + leap kills, where xenocide is initiated then leap used to get to the appropriate location in time)
3. Adrenaline (xeno, leap, leap kills)
4. Regen (for the gorge youll soon be)
5. Gorge (hooray web time)
6. Celerity (extra mobility)
7. Scent of Fear (extra accuracy, better defensive capabilities)
8. Carapce (all round stronger gorge)
9. Focus (for baiting)
<b>C). Counters to "combat" webbing. </b>
This is very tricky, a few basic ideas for a basic thread though:
1. Welders - Its been mentioned welders break web, and that webs are plotted A to B (this may not entirely be true but if isnt then it may go either way as I cant test if the welder is hitting the line). So if you see your ally get webbed then (and this will sound really stupid) run backwards towards the gorge with your welder firing in the direction opposite to the last placed 'blob'. It is also almost impossible for a gorge to aggressively web a marine team if they have a welder stationed around a corner as it provides the
It should be noted that I have read in an old changelog that welding other marines now frees them of webbing, if this has been removed again I dont know but is definately worth trying.
2. Grenades - Grenades, preferrably grenade launchers are the only feasible way of pushing back gorges though they are only semi-reliable as a defensive countermeasure, for defense I suggest welders.
3. Players - If a 'blob' hits a player then 2 more have to be used to web someone, marines charging a gorge and trying to block the 'blobs' may quite often throw them off guard and kill them (works well with welders).
This is pretty much universally orientated around combat games due to the availibility of web, if people notice any mistakes or other amendments please PM me and Ill get straight on it(with due credit obviously).
This guide wont be very long, I will try to be as simple and practical as possible. To this end here is a table of contents:
A) Webs.
i) How web is placed.
ii) What web does.
iii) Web limits.
iv) What "breaks" webbing.
B) Gorges and webs.
i) "Static" webbing
ii) "Combat" webbing (both offense & defense)
iii) Recommended combat upgrade order for a "Combat Gorge"
C) Counters to "Combat" webbing
<b>A) i) How web is placed.</b>
Webbing is the gorge's third hive ability (ie in NS you need 3 hives or CO you need 2 ability upgrades to use this weapon). It is used by firing a series of 'blobs' at walls and other objects (afaik it doest work on some entities like handrails & marines). Once the first 2 'blobs' hit the desired walls and if there is a direct line through the air between these two points (ie no wall in the way between these two points but will go through some entities eg marines) then a strand of webbing is created which appears as a mildy transarent grey-white wobbly line. The second fired 'blob' will now be treated as one of the 'blobs' for the next bit of webbing and so on until you change weapons, at which point the 'blobs' used in making the webbing are reset. This webbing is permanent until broken.
<i>[COLOR=gray]Example: A gorge is alone in an empty cube/box all the sides are walls.</i>
The gorge fires a blob at one wall, then a second blob on the opposite wall and a third on another wall.
What happens: A strand of web is created between blobs one and two fired, as there is only air between them. When the third blob is fired a second peice of web is made between blobs two and three. When the fourth blob hits the same wall as blob three no web is created as the wall is in the way of blobs three and four.[/colour]
<b>ii). What web does.</b>
If a marine hits (walks/flys into) a web then a marine is "webbed". When a marine is webbed he:
1. Has a significantly reduced movement speed.
2. Is unable to use any weapons.
3. Cannot jump
Note: Marines can still "use" things and crouch, including the repeated crouch jump trick
This lasts roughly 3 seconds, I havent timed it.
<b>iii). Web limits. </b>
For server and balance issues only a limited amount of webbing can be placed in any one area and overall. These web limits are called the "area limit" and "web limit" respectively, though I am not aware of the exact limits(last changed in the early 3.0 betas) they are rather harsh, more on this later.
<b>iv). What "breaks" webbing. </b>
When a web is broken it disappears, makes a bubblewrap style noise and is no longer counted towards a web limit.
Things that break a web:
Marines can walk into webbing (but get webbed).
Welders.
Grenades (both kinds).
Electified buildings.
Siege cannon shockwaves.
<b>B). i). "static" webbing. </b>
Static webbing is when web is placed and left to act as a defense in conjunction with other aliens/structures. Essentially only used as a jetpack defense was customarily placed up down, wax on wax off in a zig zag fashion around hives. More information on static webbing can be found in these threads.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56131&hl=webbing' target='_blank'>Clickeh 1</a>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=12496' target='_blank'>Clickeh 2</a>
<b>ii). "combat" webbing. </b>
At last we come on to the primary point of this thread, which is web need not be used as a "static" defense, it has very powerful implications in combat.
Remember that web is formed as a line between two fired 'blobs', provided that no walls are in the way, bizzarely (as mentioned in A) i) ) it does work if there is a marine between these two points. This means that if a marine you wish to web is between the 'blobs' you fire at the time the second blob hits its target wall then the marine will be webbed instantly. With practice placing the 'blobs' in the correct positions to web a group of marines over and over again becomes quite natural. This ability to INCAPACITATE several marines at once with no chance of them recovering without backup makes web a very potent weapon, with any luck (or teamwork) your allies will be around to kill them all before you find yourself unable to web them any more. This process can then be repeated closer and closer to marine spawn until you get to a point where you can static web marine spawn and win the game.
But welders and grenades break web, how can I stop them?
Webbing from the two 'blobs' is plotted in an A to B fashion, meaning if 'blob' A is behind the marine and he runs at you firing his welder then you fire 'blob' B just infront of him the webbing will hit him in the back before hitting the welder and so he will be webbed.
Webbing genadiers proves slightly more tricky but not impossible. It requires our good old friend Mr. Corner (tm.). Now it used to be that grenade explosions destroyed your webbing 'blobs', this is no longer true (possibly a bug) so the only way to combat a grenadier with web is defensively. Place a 'blob' on the back of a corner entry way (ie a side of a door or whatever), now if he knows you were in the general vicinity he will attempt one of two things: he will either slowly push up with allies and grenade spam, or hell try to grenade you just around the corner. If he is slowly pushing it is unlikely hell do two clips on the corner and so will turn the corner and at which point you web him then proceed to the corner to web any of his allies to ensure you can carry on webbing until backup comes. Note: This works fine as a main method of defensive webbing as it is almost unnoticable.
I suck is there a general method you can give me to web marines?
Well yes, but its not great, eventually you should develop your own style, here is my generic situation webbing guide. The lines between the points I expect you to work out for yourself whilst webbing, but for small to medium sized rooms this is a very good method:
1. fire a 'blob' just above their head (whilst you are jumping)
2. fire a 'blob' just infront of their feet. (opposite side of previous 'blob')
3. Alternate steps 1 & 2 for each new marine in the room this should provide fairly smooth webbing of all marines in the room (dont take too long or the first marine will de-web!)
For jetpackers if you are struggling to web them then either practice, web infront of them or set up some static webbing on the ceiling.
Please make note and be careful of the fact that if a 'blob' directly hits a player (on either team) it will be classed as a hit but not be marked meaning youll have to fire 2 more 'blobs' to web someone.
<b>iii). Recommended combat upgrade order for a "Combat Gorge". </b>
Firstly a brief summary of all upgrades for a webbing gorge.
Regen - For combatting grenadiers and absolute must (due to the small dmg taken from greande at a respectable range), also very handy in taking general purpose dmg.
Carapace - Due to the low armour of the gorge even with its altered properties carapace proves itself very useful for giving extra hp to a gorge.
Redemption - As gorges take dmg in consistent small increments a possible luxury for people who dont want to die often.
Adrenaline - For people who want to web multiple people for long durations of time an absolute must.
Silence - Effectively reduces the amount of dmg you take slightly, and allows for a web ambush but not essential on small combat maps.
Celerity - Get around faster, run away from grenades with greater success and generally make people cry this is a great upgrade to take.
Scent of Fear - A great upgrade for the standard "Mr. Corner(tm.)" webbing style and any webbing style which involves placing one 'blob' before another.
Cloaking - Learn how to hide and ambush marines with cloaking, or even slowly walk past them then web them in the back, as the main web gorg counter is grenade spam I have my doubts of its use.
Focus- High dmg spit to quickly pop round corners and harass marines into attacking you, a nice addition to the webbers arsenal.
My recommended upgrades:
1. Leap [ability 1](leap bite kills)
2. Xenocide [ability 2](xeno + leap kills, where xenocide is initiated then leap used to get to the appropriate location in time)
3. Adrenaline (xeno, leap, leap kills)
4. Regen (for the gorge youll soon be)
5. Gorge (hooray web time)
6. Celerity (extra mobility)
7. Scent of Fear (extra accuracy, better defensive capabilities)
8. Carapce (all round stronger gorge)
9. Focus (for baiting)
<b>C). Counters to "combat" webbing. </b>
This is very tricky, a few basic ideas for a basic thread though:
1. Welders - Its been mentioned welders break web, and that webs are plotted A to B (this may not entirely be true but if isnt then it may go either way as I cant test if the welder is hitting the line). So if you see your ally get webbed then (and this will sound really stupid) run backwards towards the gorge with your welder firing in the direction opposite to the last placed 'blob'. It is also almost impossible for a gorge to aggressively web a marine team if they have a welder stationed around a corner as it provides the
It should be noted that I have read in an old changelog that welding other marines now frees them of webbing, if this has been removed again I dont know but is definately worth trying.
2. Grenades - Grenades, preferrably grenade launchers are the only feasible way of pushing back gorges though they are only semi-reliable as a defensive countermeasure, for defense I suggest welders.
3. Players - If a 'blob' hits a player then 2 more have to be used to web someone, marines charging a gorge and trying to block the 'blobs' may quite often throw them off guard and kill them (works well with welders).
Comments
Actually, if two consecutive blobs are placed on the same surface, they will be connected by a web, but it will be harder to see since it is flat against the surface.
Also either mines or xenocide used to (and possibly still do) break webs with ff on, I didnt mention that either as its basically all in the linked threads, the main focus wasnt on static webbing.