Sick Of Defense First
Yoko_Onos
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14338Members
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14338Members
Sure people have different playing style I will definately give you that. in ns 2.0 I allways considered going defense first because it seemed usefull early, allthough some of the clan's liked sensory first even then. Now its like everyone in the pubs is going for defense when in my opinion they should be rushing sensory chambers up after a few rt's are put down depending on the number of players of course.
This is getting really sucky when people start throwing down defenses when focus and cloaking are extremely usefull early on before motion tracking and arms lab upgrades are in play. Sure you know I love my carapace early on too but I would much rather have cloaking and focus wouldnt you? Setup a frontal sensory chamber then go skulk and use focus and defend your killbox (sensory chamber range) Makes more sence to me then all this rushing defense when you can acctually wait till you get that second hive and a steady flow of res comming in for higher life forms with regen etc.
Not like anything I say is gunna magically change peoples minds but thats my take on it, what about you?
This is getting really sucky when people start throwing down defenses when focus and cloaking are extremely usefull early on before motion tracking and arms lab upgrades are in play. Sure you know I love my carapace early on too but I would much rather have cloaking and focus wouldnt you? Setup a frontal sensory chamber then go skulk and use focus and defend your killbox (sensory chamber range) Makes more sence to me then all this rushing defense when you can acctually wait till you get that second hive and a steady flow of res comming in for higher life forms with regen etc.
Not like anything I say is gunna magically change peoples minds but thats my take on it, what about you?
Comments
If they don't have the patience maybe this is the wrong game for them...
If they don't have the patience maybe this is the wrong game for them... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still a FPS isn't it?
Personally I have been in 1 dc first game in a period of roughly 16 gaming hours. Have a look around, not everybody plays the way you described in your post m8.
Personally I have been in 1 dc first game in a period of roughly 16 gaming hours. Have a look around, not everybody plays the way you described in your post m8. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guess I need to find some good veteran servers
Good luck.
In the hands of an experienced team the chambers are roughly balanced (i could stand to see some more insentive for movement 1st hive) but in pubs your going to see DC more often then anything else.
If they don't have the patience maybe this is the wrong game for them... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still a FPS isn't it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not all FPS are a rush-in and shoot-em-up. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fades dont need regen, they have metabolize.
DCs - For those of you who like to "Rush in and chew em" it'll make you live longer in DIRECT combat (IE: Rush into a base and chomp it) Basically a assualt boost.
MCs - For those of you who like to "Get there quickly" celerity is the way to go. Silence is a killer, as well, until they get MT. Adren is god if you're a lerk. Basically a endurance boost.
SCs - For those of you who like to "hit them from behind" cloaking effect of the SC and personal cloak is a life saver for some evolutions, unless the marines have MT. Focus is a killer for anything that takes 1 bite to kill, however, as soon as the marines get armor 1 it's negated, but then i <i>think</i> you can kill a armor 1 marine if you're a fade that slashed the marine. SoF is just plain sweet, allowing a in-game wallhack. Basically a recon boost.
But yes, it is pathetic how few servers still break away from the D>M>S pattern. (or how many servers stick to the D>M>S pattern, whichever description you want.) Yet again, any chamber that players arn't aquainted with will be at a disadvantage (yeah, lets run strait at them with focus instead of waiting patiently!)
You don't need to sit and wait for marines to walk by. When cloaked (from the upgrade) you just need to hold the WALK key which allows you to move while remaining invisible. You can move anywhere you want, sneak up behind marines, and chomp their **** before they even notice you. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You just can't afford the sensory network you need to make sens useful at the beginning of the game. And SoF, while neat, is only a wee bit better than simply using your ears to hear those marines coming around the corner. They're loud and clattery.
And movement offers too many neat things as well. Celerity and silenced skulks are a major pain for marines. Adrenaline keeps those fades blink-swiping and the gorges healspraying and the lerks sporing all day long.
And defense of course, is just too good to pass up. Kill a marine, retreat, regen, repeat. Carapaced skulks can usually take out two or three marines from a group rather than just one. And redemption is always good, if nothing else, for the crushing of the marines' spirits when they realize that the fade they just hunted down is on his way back in short order.
If sens couldn't be countered so quickly and easily, it would be awesome. There's nothing more fun than sitting in plain sight while a marine walks by and then chomping him from behind. But a few pings will ruin your day quick, and when the marines rush MT, you'll really be wishing you had those D chambers to help with the big blue target that's being drawn around you.
Sensory first because it increase the power of the skulk, allows for better hit and run tactics, and allows for safer travle.
Movment second because now with the second hive, your armor is better. Adreline helps with knocking down marine buildings, which is crucial.
Defense is last because now marines have upgraded weapons, and HA, along with all other tech. Now you actually need more armor, or a good regneation system.
A properly adjusted gamma allows you to see through cloak pretty easily, so it's by no means absolute. It's rare that marines get the drop on me, so SoF isn't as useful and focus loses it's luster as the marines tech up armor and you have to destroy more buildings. Observatories stop cloak both with their passive ability and scans. Also, electricity breaks cloak. With the long electric range, it's common to see electrified RTs and TFs in tight and heavily traversed areas.
Movement chambers are useful, but celerity and silence aren't as easy as carapace or regen. Early in the game, the Gorges aren't going to put MCs out around the map for energy boosts and there's only one hive, so the teleport effect isn't used.
DC is just too good and easy to pass up. All of the DC abilities are passive, DCs themselves provide a great benefit and DCs are virtually required for higher lifeforms. Well, required isn't the right word, but Fades and Onos benefit far more from DC than sensory.
People use what's most effective for the most people. While sensory or movement might be good for a few people, defense is good for just about everybody.
This is exactly why DC is always first.
And of course, by midgame, the marines usually end up around A1 or A2
And of course, for those endgame dilemmas where you kill everything except some guy hiding in some corner, sensory goes last.
Not that I'm saying SC is teh sore lewzer chamber, to me they're all viable. But DCs help out most on the offensive. Carapace, Regeneration and Redemption can all be used to help for actual fighting.
Upgrades such as Focus, Scent of Fear, Adrenaline and Celerity would belong to the same group, but because DC upgrades has the widest range for those kind of situations, they are mostly picked first.
Upgrades like Cloaking and Silence require much more sneaky tactics to be used effectively.
Sensory first because it increase the power of the skulk, allows for better hit and run tactics, and allows for safer travle.
Movment second because now with the second hive, your armor is better. Adreline helps with knocking down marine buildings, which is crucial.
Defense is last because now marines have upgraded weapons, and HA, along with all other tech. Now you actually need more armor, or a good regneation system. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There simply is no best order. Each different strat has both merits and penalties. One of the reasons Ds come first is because they provide the biggest advantage to the newer players you find on pubs. Sense and movement can be fantastic and win you the game - but only if your team works to take advantage of them. What's the point of getting sense if all of your team is still going to rush straight into MS and get torn up by turrets and LMGs anyway?
If this was fixed, like it was in v2, every chamber would be pretty much equal in my eyes. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
People just like dc as it not only upgrades them but also allows the aliens to deny an area to the marines with a wol.
Played nancy last night, got three gorges in mess hall, 3 oc's 3 dc's = complete map control. They got two rt's over near mother....and spent the entire rest of the game trying to get past our oc's. Eventually they got them down and took mess hall, but by this time it was 3 hives..gg.
Think about it :
It not only can prolong your life ( carapce), it can keep powerful aliens alive longer ( redempt) or regen. D chambers heal everything around them as well.
Sensory :
SOF : good, of course, but with no defence, you'll die pretty fast anyway.
Focus : nice at the start, almost useless after armor 1 and 2.
Cloaking : an obs easily kills cloaking, and with no focus or d, chances are, you won't kill with one bite.
MC :
Adren : nice for a second hive, aka umbra and bile. Good for fades, but fades with no d die super fast
Silence : nice for skulks, but no real help in killing marines.
Celerity : Again, nice, but a good second chamber.
I'm not saying DC is not still an excellent first choice but MC's are gaining popularity as people learn to lerk better.
Think about it :
It not only can prolong your life ( carapce), it can keep powerful aliens alive longer ( redempt) or regen. D chambers heal everything around them as well.
Sensory :
SOF : good, of course, but with no defence, you'll die pretty fast anyway.
Focus : nice at the start, almost useless after armor 1 and 2.
Cloaking : an obs easily kills cloaking, and with no focus or d, chances are, you won't kill with one bite.
MC :
Adren : nice for a second hive, aka umbra and bile. Good for fades, but fades with no d die super fast
Silence : nice for skulks, but no real help in killing marines.
Celerity : Again, nice, but a good second chamber. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carapace no longer increases the effectiveness of armour resulting in negligible numbers compared to other upgrades.
Besides, a celerity lerk vs 2, 3 marines is a dead celerity lerk.
after all, flesh heals naturally anyway - you don't need to be near a chamber or hive to get that ability. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->