Ns_hera
Immacolata
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Map feedback thread</div> Merkaba made some pretty surprising changes to Hera for beta 3. I was happy to see that the double siege spot at processing is finally and irrefutably <b>GONE</b>. Check out the new marine spawn and cargo area. Oh, and can you spot the new vents?
<b>Notice</b>
Hera is one of The Old Ones, a map in The League of Gentlemen. Whatever feedback we give might result in absolutely no changes what so ever. Hera has shown its worth, earned its badge already and Merkaba has changed the map significantly many times. That being said, please feel free to Fanboy away. I'm already giddy!
So, please try to comment on the new aspects of the map. How does it work out?
Please read the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61293' target='_blank'>Map Feedback Guide</a> before submitting anything. It is important that we keep these map feedback discussions sober and balanced.
Now for your complimentary screenshot of a well known area, a motif leading many NS games: The Battle for the Double Nodes.
<b>Notice</b>
Hera is one of The Old Ones, a map in The League of Gentlemen. Whatever feedback we give might result in absolutely no changes what so ever. Hera has shown its worth, earned its badge already and Merkaba has changed the map significantly many times. That being said, please feel free to Fanboy away. I'm already giddy!
So, please try to comment on the new aspects of the map. How does it work out?
Please read the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61293' target='_blank'>Map Feedback Guide</a> before submitting anything. It is important that we keep these map feedback discussions sober and balanced.
Now for your complimentary screenshot of a well known area, a motif leading many NS games: The Battle for the Double Nodes.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The reuse of the "Pods" from the lower Processing Res Node in Marine Start and by Archiving is a very cool touch and brings a unifying theme to the whole map. Removal of the double siege spot is great and will be much appreciated (though probably cursed by a commander or two <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
A couple of techincal observations: There is a small leak in the map, the screen shot I took doesn't really show it terribly well, but if you look there in game (its in Maintenance) you can definetly see it.
<img src='http://dl.branzone.com/Leak.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Also, something about the new water texture used (in the hives), combined with the depth of the water is causing some odd lighting issues. Everything in <b>deep</b> water with the new textures turns into a silhoutte, as if there was no light source shining on it. Even players climbing the ladder in Ventilation, when they are well out of the water, seem to be affected.
Those technical issues aside I really like the re-designs, especially the area near Archiving, moving a Res Node into the hive itself was an excellent idea in my opinion. And at this point I only have one major gameplay concern, though admittedly I have not played the New Hera enough to say this will become a definitive problem (I suspect it will be though, based on the games I have already played, and from the many many rounds played in the first two versions of the map).
Basically I'm worried by the sheer amount of res near Marine Start now. You have the MS Res, General Cargo Storage and Maintenance Corridor all within 10 seconds of the Comm Chair. In addition Maintenance is not much further, and neither is Hera Entrance. Plus, with the new entrance from Cargo you can reach Holoroom in under 15 seconds. For these reasons I recommend two changes: Add the weldable from MS to Cargo back in and remove the Hera Entrance Res Node.
With the new path to Holo, plus with its access to Processing, Cargo is <b>incredibly</b> valuable territory now. Without the weldable the Marine's can get a foothold there far too quickly, and from there they have incredibly easy access to Holoroom and Processing, so it seems fair they need to "pay" for all of this with a welder.
Beyond removing a res node from the Marine's early grasp, I suggest removing the Hera Entrance node for multiple reasons. First its no longer needed as the secondary node to the Archiving Hive, so its not crucial for Aliens starting there to have that node. Secondly Hera Entrance is an incredibly attractive relocation point for the Marines, as they can cover Holoroom with Sieges and easily defend a base there. Removing the res node would remove this incentive considerably and would help draw attention to other parts of the map.
Great job overall and I can't wait to see this map back in server rotations with the optimizations.
The new elevator into Marinespawn from down the Steamy tunnels looks like it is a nice skulk ambush spot. Good choice.
Here is one issue I have discovered, thanks to Jazzx. By holding Hera Entrance node and fortifying it with ONE siege gun and a PG, marines can effectively deny aliens FOUR res nodes. So yes, hera entrance room is simply too good to miss. It doesn't help that the spot is hard to assault for aliens. No easy way there first of all. Only one direction of approach to it, nice blocking by railings and consoles of fades and onos, but not of bullets.
The enclosed screenshot illustrates how one siege gun can terrorize an entire neighbourhood. Holoroom as well as the node outside Data Archiving hive.
Personally, I believe its a problem with the Siege gun and not the map, but Flayra has not shown any indications of wanting to tone down the dominance of Siege guns ever since 1.04 range and LOS nerf.
1) The CommandCloset as we call it. I'm really not too sure what the point of this was, but it isn't good. It's like the bonsai-base from hell. It's almost as bad as Caged's CommandCloset. And that means stalemates because they just bunker down in there. Remove the command closet, put the comm chair in a tiny alcove. Marines should be in the main area, not wedged in some little crack.
2) Most of the changes look very rushed, and the reduction in entities more or less ruined the map for every reason I loved it. There's almost no weldables anymore, so you can't deny the aliens vents except in one place. The lift down to cargo bay is quite tacky, and the lack of the weldable door pretty much removed the tactical idea behind it. The water is hideous without the entities.
3) Like Immacolata said, Reception is rediculous now. It was bad enough before with the lack of any real vents leading there, forcing the aliens to enter the room via the HUGE BRIGHTLY LIT corridors (looked like something out of ns_11th_hour).
Since apparently we're REQUIRED to praise a map as well (which entirely defeats the point of a map feedback thread), all I can say is I still like the level design a lot. The absolutely only thing I like about the changs is the removal of the double siege point, which has been replaced with 4 node denial, allowing marines to supress up to 5 nodes if they still control marine spawn, which has 2 more nodes within easy reach (cargo and the new node in the foggy corridor.)
The opening of cargo will actually allow marines to control that portion of the map, and have another path to go into the rest of the map. Then the path going from cargo to holo room adds more difficulty in keeping holo secured (which imo, double node should be the hardest spot in the map to hold). These both are very, very good changes.
Marine start looks like an improvement, but as mentioned earlier, the "closet" it is in could lead to turtling marines.
The glass tube is also an improvement. While it's a little less atmospheric, it will be easier to get out of there now.
Now to touch on these siege notes...
Immacolata said about the 4 node sieging in hera enterance, well, there's a spot not far from that where you can get 5 nodes.
(I'm also going to have to agree with Imma on the thought that the siege is to blame here. Me being an avid alien player since I started playing this game made me absolutely hate the siege cannon.)
One siege cannon in this spot will cover five resource nodes. (Archiving, Data Core Alpha, Holoroom, and Hera Enterence).
<img src='http://www.uploadit.org/mahnsawce/ns_hera2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Aliens have archiving hive secured, and have res nodes in holo and hera? No problem, go to cargo storage and siege those three out.
<img src='http://www.uploadit.org/mahnsawce/ns_hera3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Aliens have both processing nodes? Sneak in through ventilation to siege them out. (You can also reach ventilation hive node, and maint. node from here too.)
<img src='http://www.uploadit.org/mahnsawce/ns_hera5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The door in cargo, on the bottom of the lift, which appears to be set in an solid state of opened, still has switches on it. Maybe removing those would reduce the entity count even more?
<img src='http://www.uploadit.org/mahnsawce/ns_hera4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And lastly, the door going into cargo just doesn't seem right. It looks like a hole was cut cleanly into the enormous cargo door.
<img src='http://www.uploadit.org/mahnsawce/ns_hera1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
It's like I suddenly don't know what the back of my own hand looks like, that's how how much I got used to the previous layout that has more or less stayed the same for almost 1 and a half years... I'm not saying the changes are bad, they're just gonna need some getting used to...
Hera has always been my second favourite map, trailing ever so closely behind tanith. I hope it'll continue to remain in the top 2 after I get some quality time in with it...
<span style='color:red'>**** LOCKED ****</span>
No wait, I insist <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->