I have posted 2 ideas on how to change leap so that it niether overpowerd nor useless. Zip over to the I&S forum and check my ideas out. their all very fesable
Gimping a class with a mobility only 'weapon' at hive 2 as as stupid as making a 50 res alien get some stupid lousy 'heal attack' at hive 2 as well, or a 75 res critter hive 3 attack, the top of the top of the top of the tech tree, an 'attack' that barely damages anything.
No matter how much damage leap does, there is never any reason NOT to switch to bite in the middle of your leap. Therefore, rather than considering just the damage done by leap, you should be considering the damage done by Leap + Bite, which will always be greater than the damage done by Bite even if Leap only did 1 damage.
Bite does 75 per hit, fires about twice a second, so for simplicity lets say it does 150 damage per second. Leap does 60 per second, so the 2 combined deal 210 damage per second. Voila! You <i>already have something better than</i> the 180 damage per second you are asking for. And the difference is important...150 will kill a Lvl0 marine, 210 will kill a Lvl1 marine.
As far as mobility goes: While moving around the map, the increase in your <i>average</i> speed between leaping and then landing for a few seconds as you regen Adrenaline is very slight, and makes a ton of noise. I can admit that this isn't terribly useful, although it's still nice to have. But when moving into combat, the increase in your <i>immediate</i> speed is huge, and makes all the difference between being in that marines crosshairs and being in his face.
Would I like to see a slight increase in Leap damage? Sure. But there is no way you can say it is not incredibly useful as it is. It does not <i>need</i> a fix. Now, charge on the other hand...
I too miss the leap of 1.04. There was no better tool for killing marines in vents than leap. In fact it was pretty much the only tool useful for killing marines in vents in 1.04. These days you never see a leap kill anymore, heck even parasite kills more marines than leap. Leap was also extremely useful for gettin JPers. Now it is simply, as Nightcrawler stated, a loud alert for marines to tell them you have two hives, and a not so useful mode of locomotion (who wants to arrive at a fight with no adrenaline).
Please restore Leap to its 1.04 damage potential (no not the fps dependency).
Cxwf.... please please be quiet. you know not what you say. NEVER EVER EVER THINK OF LEAP AS DAMAGE PER SECOND. when you do that not only do you make yourself look completely incompetent to poeple who know what their talking about, but you also miss the entire point of why the current leap damage doesnt work. when leap is "cast" it has set points within a second when it checks for a collision with a marine hitbox, now if you happen to miss these extremely fast "touch checks" you loose the entire damage for the touch. Im not exactly shure how many touches are in a leap but its alot of really small ones. say 1 - 2 damage per touch leading to 40 touches possible per "cast". When you "cast" leap the time that your in the air loses you about 50-75% of your touches, thats 40-60 damage for all you stupid poeple and this is only talking about a ono length distance leap. Are you starting to get the picture? i beg of all you stupid poeple out there just try to use leap to get 10-12 damage i am offering this to you as a challange. Then if you can go back to a 1.04 version and try the same thing. Youll realise how "un"- overpowerd the 1.04 leap was when you reach the appifany that the damage for leap is very poorly implemented and that getting 10-12 damage out of the 1.04 leap was a god send to the noobs.
Man you guys just please take the time to figure out how stuff works before you go off runing your mouth like that. If you can get the current leap bite combo to deal 210 damage then you are indeed a god.
I think leap damage should be removed completely. If they "fixed" leap, all balancing would have to be redone. Not now that the game is almost balanced. Charge kills can be done, although gore and devour are much more useful.
Leap does damage? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> My friend and I went to an empty server so we could test out damage of Focus Bites on marine armor. I decided to get Leap as a skulk and wanted to test out how much damage it did. I did three direct Leaps at my friend and he told me that none of the times produced any damage. Where do you hit someone with Leap in order for it to do damage? I literally rammed myself into the marine's body.
1) He other wasn't reporting it to you 2) You leaped way to far away
I've lanned with a friend and tested leap. I've gotten many one shot kills with him..of course he was standing still. If you are even on top of a marine..aim straight down and leap. Another good way to use leap is look down and use leap and then touch the marine. Works best if they are in between a wall.
On another note, not sure if this will work for leap, but if you are an onos. Do charge while hidden and have a marine touch you, the marine will die even though he touched you, but you didn't touch him. Fun times. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dantemss+Feb 7 2004, 08:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dantemss @ Feb 7 2004, 08:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think leap damage should be removed completely. If they "fixed" leap, all balancing would have to be redone. Not now that the game is almost balanced. Charge kills can be done, although gore and devour are much more useful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if this happens then make it cost less adren.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Paranoia-2MB+Feb 7 2004, 02:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paranoia-2MB @ Feb 7 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1) He other wasn't reporting it to you 2) You leaped way to far away
I've lanned with a friend and tested leap. I've gotten many one shot kills with him..of course he was standing still. If you are even on top of a marine..aim straight down and leap. Another good way to use leap is look down and use leap and then touch the marine. Works best if they are in between a wall.
On another note, not sure if this will work for leap, but if you are an onos. Do charge while hidden and have a marine touch you, the marine will die even though he touched you, but you didn't touch him. Fun times. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. the funniest thing is standing on top of a HA and then trigger charge... you just stand on top while his armor/health runs down...
Of course, you do need patience in 3.0 - in 1.04, the HA died in about one second if you did this... now it takes 3.3 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Feb 7 2004, 08:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Feb 7 2004, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cxwf.... please please be quiet. you know not what you say. NEVER EVER EVER THINK OF LEAP AS DAMAGE PER SECOND. when you do that not only do you make yourself look completely incompetent to poeple who know what their talking about, but you also miss the entire point of why the current leap damage doesnt work. when leap is "cast" it has set points within a second when it checks for a collision with a marine hitbox, now if you happen to miss these extremely fast "touch checks" you loose the entire damage for the touch. Im not exactly shure how many touches are in a leap but its alot of really small ones. say 1 - 2 damage per touch leading to 40 touches possible per "cast". When you "cast" leap the time that your in the air loses you about 50-75% of your touches, thats 40-60 damage for all you stupid poeple and this is only talking about a ono length distance leap. Are you starting to get the picture? i beg of all you stupid poeple out there just try to use leap to get 10-12 damage i am offering this to you as a challange. Then if you can go back to a 1.04 version and try the same thing. Youll realise how "un"- overpowerd the 1.04 leap was when you reach the appifany that the damage for leap is very poorly implemented and that getting 10-12 damage out of the 1.04 leap was a god send to the noobs.
Man you guys just please take the time to figure out how stuff works before you go off runing your mouth like that. If you can get the current leap bite combo to deal 210 damage then you are indeed a god. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So...your only objection to my post was that its really really easy to miss with leap, thus causing it to deal less than full damage? I don't think that qualifies as me not knowing what I'm talking about, and that basic point has been brought up plenty of times in this thread already. For those of us (apparently the majority, and probably includes me) who can't hit with leap to deal damage with it, it really doesnt matter if leap deals 1 damage or 1000 damage, so the whole discussion is moot. For those of you leet leapers who can hit and deal most of Leaps nominal damage, everything I said still applies.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Actually, it's so close to impossible to do full damage with a leap against a non-cooperating marine that indeed, you need to be a god to do it.
Us normal mortals are happy if you get 10 damage from it...
Indeed, it would have been better if leap did a fixed damage if you landed on a marine - some 30-40 damage would be enough.
Likewise with charge - accellerate to full speed, then transfer some of that speed/damage to whatever you hit... Would look real fun if an Onos would charge straight into a group of LA marines, knocking them back as a bowling ball going for a strike... :-)
Comments
Wait... oh yeah.
Bite does 75 per hit, fires about twice a second, so for simplicity lets say it does 150 damage per second. Leap does 60 per second, so the 2 combined deal 210 damage per second. Voila! You <i>already have something better than</i> the 180 damage per second you are asking for. And the difference is important...150 will kill a Lvl0 marine, 210 will kill a Lvl1 marine.
As far as mobility goes: While moving around the map, the increase in your <i>average</i> speed between leaping and then landing for a few seconds as you regen Adrenaline is very slight, and makes a ton of noise. I can admit that this isn't terribly useful, although it's still nice to have. But when moving into combat, the increase in your <i>immediate</i> speed is huge, and makes all the difference between being in that marines crosshairs and being in his face.
Would I like to see a slight increase in Leap damage? Sure. But there is no way you can say it is not incredibly useful as it is. It does not <i>need</i> a fix. Now, charge on the other hand...
Please restore Leap to its 1.04 damage potential (no not the fps dependency).
Man you guys just please take the time to figure out how stuff works before you go off runing your mouth like that. If you can get the current leap bite combo to deal 210 damage then you are indeed a god.
2) You leaped way to far away
I've lanned with a friend and tested leap. I've gotten many one shot kills with him..of course he was standing still. If you are even on top of a marine..aim straight down and leap. Another good way to use leap is look down and use leap and then touch the marine. Works best if they are in between a wall.
On another note, not sure if this will work for leap, but if you are an onos. Do charge while hidden and have a marine touch you, the marine will die even though he touched you, but you didn't touch him. Fun times. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if this happens then make it cost less adren.
2) You leaped way to far away
I've lanned with a friend and tested leap. I've gotten many one shot kills with him..of course he was standing still. If you are even on top of a marine..aim straight down and leap. Another good way to use leap is look down and use leap and then touch the marine. Works best if they are in between a wall.
On another note, not sure if this will work for leap, but if you are an onos. Do charge while hidden and have a marine touch you, the marine will die even though he touched you, but you didn't touch him. Fun times. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. the funniest thing is standing on top of a HA and then trigger charge... you just stand on top while his armor/health runs down...
Of course, you do need patience in 3.0 - in 1.04, the HA died in about one second if you did this... now it takes 3.3 seconds.
Man you guys just please take the time to figure out how stuff works before you go off runing your mouth like that. If you can get the current leap bite combo to deal 210 damage then you are indeed a god. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...your only objection to my post was that its really really easy to miss with leap, thus causing it to deal less than full damage? I don't think that qualifies as me not knowing what I'm talking about, and that basic point has been brought up plenty of times in this thread already. For those of us (apparently the majority, and probably includes me) who can't hit with leap to deal damage with it, it really doesnt matter if leap deals 1 damage or 1000 damage, so the whole discussion is moot. For those of you leet leapers who can hit and deal most of Leaps nominal damage, everything I said still applies.
Oh...and its 4 damage per touch.
Us normal mortals are happy if you get 10 damage from it...
Indeed, it would have been better if leap did a fixed damage if you landed on a marine - some 30-40 damage would be enough.
Likewise with charge - accellerate to full speed, then transfer some of that speed/damage to whatever you hit... Would look real fun if an Onos would charge straight into a group of LA marines, knocking them back as a bowling ball going for a strike... :-)