the texture for the team portals is off for me too =\
the map is not one of my personal favorites, but objectively speaking it plays really well. MS is difficult to camp, given the short hallways and small room size, and battles usually rage on in the middle room fairly well. in terms of aesthetics, it looks nice, tho i have to turn my gamma all the way up to see anything in certain places...
i agree with the ramps in the hive, they'll be better than ladders for both hive defense and offense. part of the problem includes the fact that the gap between the hive, the pillars, and the upper walkway looks like it would allow anything to slip through, but instead there are only certain spots where you can go through. this has screwed me quite often as fade/lerk/skulk/jp'er.
theres an invisble platform on the map, above the 'snipe point' corridor, just above the 'cave entrance'. dunno whats going on there, but you can perch up on it, and use crouch to fall through it (handy for cloaked onos i bet).
apart from that,[obligatory compliment time] a great map.
the ladders in the hive seem (imo) to slow up the flow around the hive. maybe a ramp along one side (or the back) would be 'better' [and only because ladders tend to lead to grisley death if enemies are about]
I would love some more vents. The water under the bridge to reduce mass annoyance for everyone who slips and falls was a stroke of genius(less annoyance=good).
Rr is kinda boring, and the map definatly need som more vents. The map is a lot of fun to play though, and looks very good imo (lightning = win <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
Another route would be very good though, the map doesn't support so many players atm.
At the hive its kind of hard to climb up the pillars next to it as a skulk.
Overall: great map with a need of a much bigger vent system and maybe an extra route to the hive?
sorry to write in this kind of way but in a hurry right now and i feel like i should say my opinions about co_core
..now as i did read the things few said that this map has the fast action right inside of it, and i had to say i'll agree on it. But further more i dont like the possibility that you can easily harm to hive from both of the passages so easily(GL spam behind a corner or lmg hmg from the lower passage), perhaps moving the hive up or some other way making the hive room different (??)
This is one of my favourite combat maps, it feels just right for the training situation that combat is supposed to be.
One thing that I don't believe anyone has mentioned though is the vent next to the hive has line-of-sight on the hive from it's exit. A JP/HMGer can annihilate anything but a fade AND shoot the hive at the same time.
I'd suggest putting a cover over the exit like many of the vents in ns_nancy to force JPers to come out the vent to shoot the hive, that or move it round somewhere so you don't have LoS on the hive.
This map needs some serious reworking. The game generally ends in only one way, that of a marine victory, at least with the current metagame (beta 4a).
This is how the map plays out.
Marines camp the first corner ramp outside their spawn until all the visible skulks are dead, first 30 seconds. They move out into the major ramp. When they move out into this, aliens are pretty hard pressed to budge the marines. The marines can camp the two entrances from the hive from any vantage point with ease, and there are no vents (there's 1 vent in the whole map, actually) from which skulks can form an ambush. It is <i>far</i> too open; skulks get obliterated. From this point, marines move into the two entrances directly outside the hive, and from the lower vantage point, they can shoot the hive. From the upper vantage point, there is a corridor where most any skulks would get slaughtered.
With these two points pinned down and one of the points able to shoot directly at the hive and kill any incoming skulks with impunity, the game is basically over.
As for the hive room, it is horrible. The two levels really throw off defense off the hive, as the marines can attack from both the top and the bottom from a distance. The pillars are badly placed, they should be spread apart farther, to allow skulks/fades/lerks to get by unhindered. The water under the hive is a horrible idea, as it drastically slows down skulks trying to get at the marines. Then there is the openness. It's almost as bad as the main ramp room, not to mention the damned dark corners. There are corners in the hive room where it is completely black; there is no possible way (save for upping your gamma to max) to see marines. And since aliens have no flashlights, a marine camping in the utter blackness can kill aliens as he pleases.
This all happens within the first 2 minutes. If, however, the aliens can somehow progress to onos, it's all over for the marines, as the corridors are completely blocked by a single onos.
In a cinch, add more vents, more obstacles in the main ramp room, and more routes to the hive and to the command center
In all honesty, I don't see much good in the map, at least not until these points are looked at. However, the general atmosphere of the map is pretty good, and I think that if these points are looked at, then the map would be very balanced and quite a bit more fun to play, either as marines or aliens. The layout of the map is original, and I think the main two level ramp room adds a uniqueness to the map not found in others.
I'd be more willing to refine the above post to better define what is wrong, if interest is shown, and I'd be more then happy to try my hand at remaking the map if I could.
Also, there are some bugs that'll I post when I get time within the next few days of invisible platforms and such.
You can get stuck inbetween the hive too easily. The gap surrounding the hive really isnt big enough to jump down or climb up, so you end up getting jammed in-between. This usually happens when you are trying to take down a Jetpacker flying around the hive, or even landing on it.
The marines can also shoot the hive down without even entering the room. One point is the right path leading from MS to the Hive room, and the other is the two ladders that you use to get to/from the Lower level.
Its forces aliens to take the middle, not marines. Marines with shotguns can usually camp the corners leading to their base. The hive just needs to be reworked so that its in an open area in a back corner of the room with the rest of the area left for spawning.
<!--QuoteBegin-ssjyoda+May 25 2004, 09:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ssjyoda @ May 25 2004, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> as forlorn mentioned.. the problems with the ms and hive are not really problems. but force the teams to attack and not camp.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But the thing is, marines can camp and aliens can't. Marines camp the little ramp right outside their hive, and aliens have no chance to dislodge them. After the marines level up, they move to the areas directly outside the hive, where it is wide open so that they can kill spawning skulks from miles away as well as shoot the hive, all within the relative safety of a vast, open area.
The marines can camp because everything is so wide open, and there are no vents leading to the direct battle area. or to the two main marine camping areas. Once the marines get those two spots, there is virtually no way for the aliens to dislodge them, at least without higher lifeforms, but games don't last that long anyway.
I don't have a problem with marine spawn, but when aliens spawn, they get cut down from marines camping halfway across the map. If you want to foster people to move out, at least make the marine spawn accessible to anything but a fade or onos. There is no way to sneak in there, and the only way in there are two wide open, bright corridors.
From what I've seen, core can be won by either side, but given about equal skill, marines will tend to dominate, especially with the extra cost imposed on Xeno.
As forlorn pointed out, the long line of sight from the mid-level cave corner means aliens can't actually defend the hive by staying in the hive room. Unfortunately, the large open area just outside it is a killing field for any skulk that ventures into it. Once the aliens have made fade, this reverses, but getting there is a challenge in itself.
I realize it's probably intended that in that situation, skulks run down to the lower level and come up just behind the marines but because of the two level design and the closeness of the hive to the central pillars, simply getting up to the second level takes far too long.
The map promotes hard and furious action, excellent for combat, and stalemates just don't tend to occur on it. This is a good thing generally, but it's rare you'll ever see an onos on that map, simply because it's usually over too fast. It might be nice if there were some way to slow it down just a touch though.
I'd suggest opening the pillars up, giving skulks the ability to quickly climb up to the second level. Perhaps some piping on the ceiling of the hive room to slow down the JPs. I'd also suggest some sort of visual cue as to which side is the exit side -- the symmetrical nature of the hive room means precious seconds are often wasted by running to the wrong side of the room first.
Finally I'd suggest lightening the corners and edges of the hive room a touch, but darkening the wall of the middle area that's closest to the hive or alternatively adjusting the coloration/lighting of it so that skulks aren't so easily spotted crawling along it.
This map all around is pretty good, i agree that when the players goes over 16 the marines tend to win because of the easy camp spots they get in the hallways outside of their spawn, but besdies that the map is a fun small fast paced map.
Comments
the map is not one of my personal favorites, but objectively speaking it plays really well. MS is difficult to camp, given the short hallways and small room size, and battles usually rage on in the middle room fairly well. in terms of aesthetics, it looks nice, tho i have to turn my gamma all the way up to see anything in certain places...
i agree with the ramps in the hive, they'll be better than ladders for both hive defense and offense. part of the problem includes the fact that the gap between the hive, the pillars, and the upper walkway looks like it would allow anything to slip through, but instead there are only certain spots where you can go through. this has screwed me quite often as fade/lerk/skulk/jp'er.
That's like the best part of the map.
Currently in other maps aliens can just camp inside of their own hive which has the possibility for some boring stalemates.
This map on the other hand asks for the team to control the middle area, so that way marines can't snipe the hive. Pure action ++
It really is a nice layout...
dunno whats going on there, but you can perch up on it, and use crouch to fall through it (handy for cloaked onos i bet).
apart from that,[obligatory compliment time] a great map.
the ladders in the hive seem (imo) to slow up the flow around the hive.
maybe a ramp along one side (or the back) would be 'better'
[and only because ladders tend to lead to grisley death if enemies are about]
The water under the bridge to reduce mass annoyance for everyone who slips and falls was a stroke of genius(less annoyance=good).
Another route would be very good though, the map doesn't support so many players atm.
At the hive its kind of hard to climb up the pillars next to it as a skulk.
Overall: great map with a need of a much bigger vent system and maybe an extra route to the hive?
..now as i did read the things few said that this map has the fast action right inside of it, and i had to say i'll agree on it. But further more i dont like the possibility that you can easily harm to hive from both of the passages so easily(GL spam behind a corner or lmg hmg from the lower passage), perhaps moving the hive up or some other way making the hive room different (??)
con - grenande launcher takes out 7 spawning skulks because i was shooting at the hive and they spawn that close to it
One thing that I don't believe anyone has mentioned though is the vent next to the hive has line-of-sight on the hive from it's exit. A JP/HMGer can annihilate anything but a fade AND shoot the hive at the same time.
I'd suggest putting a cover over the exit like many of the vents in ns_nancy to force JPers to come out the vent to shoot the hive, that or move it round somewhere so you don't have LoS on the hive.
Other than that I think it's a great map.
This is how the map plays out.
Marines camp the first corner ramp outside their spawn until all the visible skulks are dead, first 30 seconds. They move out into the major ramp. When they move out into this, aliens are pretty hard pressed to budge the marines. The marines can camp the two entrances from the hive from any vantage point with ease, and there are no vents (there's 1 vent in the whole map, actually) from which skulks can form an ambush. It is <i>far</i> too open; skulks get obliterated. From this point, marines move into the two entrances directly outside the hive, and from the lower vantage point, they can shoot the hive. From the upper vantage point, there is a corridor where most any skulks would get slaughtered.
With these two points pinned down and one of the points able to shoot directly at the hive and kill any incoming skulks with impunity, the game is basically over.
As for the hive room, it is horrible. The two levels really throw off defense off the hive, as the marines can attack from both the top and the bottom from a distance. The pillars are badly placed, they should be spread apart farther, to allow skulks/fades/lerks to get by unhindered. The water under the hive is a horrible idea, as it drastically slows down skulks trying to get at the marines. Then there is the openness. It's almost as bad as the main ramp room, not to mention the damned dark corners. There are corners in the hive room where it is completely black; there is no possible way (save for upping your gamma to max) to see marines. And since aliens have no flashlights, a marine camping in the utter blackness can kill aliens as he pleases.
This all happens within the first 2 minutes. If, however, the aliens can somehow progress to onos, it's all over for the marines, as the corridors are completely blocked by a single onos.
In a cinch, add more vents, more obstacles in the main ramp room, and more routes to the hive and to the command center
In all honesty, I don't see much good in the map, at least not until these points are looked at. However, the general atmosphere of the map is pretty good, and I think that if these points are looked at, then the map would be very balanced and quite a bit more fun to play, either as marines or aliens. The layout of the map is original, and I think the main two level ramp room adds a uniqueness to the map not found in others.
I'd be more willing to refine the above post to better define what is wrong, if interest is shown, and I'd be more then happy to try my hand at remaking the map if I could.
Also, there are some bugs that'll I post when I get time within the next few days of invisible platforms and such.
The gap surrounding the hive really isnt big enough to jump down or climb up, so you end up getting jammed in-between. This usually happens when you are trying to take down a Jetpacker flying around the hive, or even landing on it.
The marines can also shoot the hive down without even entering the room. One point is the right path leading from MS to the Hive room, and the other is the two ladders that you use to get to/from the Lower level.
But the thing is, marines can camp and aliens can't. Marines camp the little ramp right outside their hive, and aliens have no chance to dislodge them. After the marines level up, they move to the areas directly outside the hive, where it is wide open so that they can kill spawning skulks from miles away as well as shoot the hive, all within the relative safety of a vast, open area.
The marines can camp because everything is so wide open, and there are no vents leading to the direct battle area. or to the two main marine camping areas. Once the marines get those two spots, there is virtually no way for the aliens to dislodge them, at least without higher lifeforms, but games don't last that long anyway.
I don't have a problem with marine spawn, but when aliens spawn, they get cut down from marines camping halfway across the map. If you want to foster people to move out, at least make the marine spawn accessible to anything but a fade or onos. There is no way to sneak in there, and the only way in there are two wide open, bright corridors.
I liked the lwered Ceiling, mounted marinea are really painful in this map
As forlorn pointed out, the long line of sight from the mid-level cave corner means aliens can't actually defend the hive by staying in the hive room. Unfortunately, the large open area just outside it is a killing field for any skulk that ventures into it. Once the aliens have made fade, this reverses, but getting there is a challenge in itself.
I realize it's probably intended that in that situation, skulks run down to the lower level and come up just behind the marines but because of the two level design and the closeness of the hive to the central pillars, simply getting up to the second level takes far too long.
The map promotes hard and furious action, excellent for combat, and stalemates just don't tend to occur on it. This is a good thing generally, but it's rare you'll ever see an onos on that map, simply because it's usually over too fast. It might be nice if there were some way to slow it down just a touch though.
I'd suggest opening the pillars up, giving skulks the ability to quickly climb up to the second level. Perhaps some piping on the ceiling of the hive room to slow down the JPs. I'd also suggest some sort of visual cue as to which side is the exit side -- the symmetrical nature of the hive room means precious seconds are often wasted by running to the wrong side of the room first.
Finally I'd suggest lightening the corners and edges of the hive room a touch, but darkening the wall of the middle area that's closest to the hive or alternatively adjusting the coloration/lighting of it so that skulks aren't so easily spotted crawling along it.