Common Mistakes By Commanders In 2.01
FCC
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18218Members
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18218Members
I posted a topic similar to this in version 1.04, so I figured I would post one for version 2.01.
1) <b>Getting level one weapons before level one armor.</b> This common mistake was also in version 1.04, and sadly, it has still carried over to version 2.01.
2) <b>Electrifying <i>every </i>resource node.</b> This is fact, not a statement of opinion, Electricity is expensive. The only resource nodes that should be electrifed are the ones at key locations (hives).
3) <b>Getting heavy armor over jetpacks.</b> This is an exact opposite of the problem in version 1.04, in which, the marine commanders would be obsessed with the notion that jetpacks could "own" anything in version 1.04. Now in version 2.01, heavy armor has taken the place of the jetpack. I don't know if anyone has experienced this, but a heavy train can easily be stopped by just one onos (level two hive) using stomp. The onos can just get adrenline and stomp around a corner over and over again, obstructing the heavy armor train from proceeding. And really there is nothing the heavy train can do, except maybe using a grenade launcher; But even then, with regeneration and correct timing the grenade launcher can't really do anything. The onos does not even have to kill any heavies, all it needs to do is stomp and let its teammates do the rest.
If commanders would just research both technologies, those onos would not stand a chance. A diversity of technologies is always better than just one.
4) <b>Refusing to drop shotguns.</b> Shotguns are the best weapons a commander could possibly have in their arsenal for only ten resources. A possible negative sign could be the marine team whining that they don't have shotguns like the others, but strictly speaking, shotguns benefit your team so much. Shotguns force many aliens to retreat at the sight of them and also work wonders against fades.
5) <b>Upgrading the armory right away</b> This can be controversial, as it depends on the strategy the commander is going for. But in my opinion, I think the resources can be used for more important things. There just isn't enough resources to go around in the beginning, and using it on something that won't benefit the team for awhile (not to forget to mention you'll need resources to drop heavy weapons) just isn't worth it, no matter what strategy you are using.
6) <b>Clustering the entire marine base</b> A very common strategy is to use an electrified turret factory to cover the entire base. While this is good in the beginning, it becomes very problematic later on. Marines who spawn end up being stuck; Marines "humping" the armory and obstructing others trying to leave the base; Marines trying to move around and then get "worldspawned" because they didn't know the infantry portal was underneath them; The list goes on. It is better to just use two or three turrets, which is cheaper or the same price as electricity, to cover the base.
1) <b>Getting level one weapons before level one armor.</b> This common mistake was also in version 1.04, and sadly, it has still carried over to version 2.01.
2) <b>Electrifying <i>every </i>resource node.</b> This is fact, not a statement of opinion, Electricity is expensive. The only resource nodes that should be electrifed are the ones at key locations (hives).
3) <b>Getting heavy armor over jetpacks.</b> This is an exact opposite of the problem in version 1.04, in which, the marine commanders would be obsessed with the notion that jetpacks could "own" anything in version 1.04. Now in version 2.01, heavy armor has taken the place of the jetpack. I don't know if anyone has experienced this, but a heavy train can easily be stopped by just one onos (level two hive) using stomp. The onos can just get adrenline and stomp around a corner over and over again, obstructing the heavy armor train from proceeding. And really there is nothing the heavy train can do, except maybe using a grenade launcher; But even then, with regeneration and correct timing the grenade launcher can't really do anything. The onos does not even have to kill any heavies, all it needs to do is stomp and let its teammates do the rest.
If commanders would just research both technologies, those onos would not stand a chance. A diversity of technologies is always better than just one.
4) <b>Refusing to drop shotguns.</b> Shotguns are the best weapons a commander could possibly have in their arsenal for only ten resources. A possible negative sign could be the marine team whining that they don't have shotguns like the others, but strictly speaking, shotguns benefit your team so much. Shotguns force many aliens to retreat at the sight of them and also work wonders against fades.
5) <b>Upgrading the armory right away</b> This can be controversial, as it depends on the strategy the commander is going for. But in my opinion, I think the resources can be used for more important things. There just isn't enough resources to go around in the beginning, and using it on something that won't benefit the team for awhile (not to forget to mention you'll need resources to drop heavy weapons) just isn't worth it, no matter what strategy you are using.
6) <b>Clustering the entire marine base</b> A very common strategy is to use an electrified turret factory to cover the entire base. While this is good in the beginning, it becomes very problematic later on. Marines who spawn end up being stuck; Marines "humping" the armory and obstructing others trying to leave the base; Marines trying to move around and then get "worldspawned" because they didn't know the infantry portal was underneath them; The list goes on. It is better to just use two or three turrets, which is cheaper or the same price as electricity, to cover the base.
Comments
and armor 1... first research i do! its really soo much better.
gj on that FCC, cause im sure that many comms do make these mistakes
( for example i dont give out shottys. only if my team has allready jp or ha) <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
but htese are german servers. in fact you even learn something if you loose. so i kept comming. i lost the first games and now i win often. i started commin 1 week ago. you could also try it against bots with a friend if you want to know the map
Wasting too much money on base defense at the start.
It seems pretty common on public servers for comms to build base defenses at the start, and then not get ANY upgrades for 8-10 minutes. If there is anything that dooms marines more than this, I don't know what it is.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->Three pings in the Room with Things for aliens sneaky
Seven for the sieges that shoot through walls of stone
Nine for space marines humping the armory
One for the superskulk clinging on the ceiling, prone
In the vents where he camps happily
One ping to root them out,
One ping to find them,
One ping to flush them out
and in the darkness blind them
In the vents where he camps happily<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
1: agreed. statistically armor is simply better.
2: agreed in general, but its not that much of a problem if you know the alien team arent gonna have a decent fade (which is possible to know on a regular server). and theres always about 5-6 res nodes you can easily take without fade resistance, in which case 2 arms labs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> aint gonna work against good aliens though..
3: disagreed. jetpacks will always be erm...jetpacks. lets face it, theyre kinda hard to use and even if you do know how to use them, you aint that hard to kill. i dont wanna use this to tell how good i am cos i sux, but am a half decent onos and won my alien team the game as 1 hive onos while marines had lvl3 shotty/jp once. the comm took too long getting HA, and when he did, i had stomp. gg jetpacks. and theres no way you're gonna tell me an adren onos can hold an entire band of HA if they really go for it. (stomp is annoying but theres...ways around it, like getting someone to sneak off to a place where the onos aint, particularly to a siege spot next to hive.
4: somewhat agreed, it depends though. kinda depressing when you lay some shotguns to see them taken by people who wander off on their own and get killed by 2 or 3 skulks, which is bb 10 res. if you can trust the players with them, they do pay for themselves.
5: agreed, often comms get lvl1 armor lvl2 weapons HA.....and they even only have half a team! what a joke <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> HA should always be at LEAST lvl2 armor, and preferably lvl3 weapons. else its not worth getting, and the upgrades you need for getting those upgrades do not require early armory upg.
6: agreed, i often cluster the base though but dont put an electrified tf (if i put a tf at all), just out of habit creativity and lack of creativity, and yeah; agreed, early base defense equals lose unless alien team are nubcakes. you kinda need upgrades at 4-5 minutes, often i see them at 6-8
You can get armor 1 going at 2 minutes even if you do start with an electrified TF. If not, you can get it in the first minute.
I disagree against both on the JP/HA issue... I don't think there's a clear-cut winner. A lot of it depends on the map and hive you're going after. For example, Powersilo and Great Viaduct hives are absolute love for JPs (TF on upper Silo ledge, red room siege, not to mention standard flying and shooting) making Nothing a great JP map. But if the hive you're going after has a lot of ramps/stairs nearby, your HA train isn't as vunerable to stomp, and even your average pub player is aware of this and how to avoid being stomped continuously. If you're going JP, I'd get armor 3 before weapons 3, otherwise you're a bit too vunerable to spores/OCs... you can get away with a HA train with weap2/armor1, despite what some people think. On many pubs the teamwork level shoots up a lot once the HA train arrives.
When comming, I probably end up with HA/JP first ratio of like 60/40. It really all depends on the situation, your mood, and what the players want (unless I'm convinced of a particular route, I'll ask the team for a vote).
-comms who say "i can't do anything without rez, get me rez!" without a specific strategy on what to secure and when and how.
-not dropping shotties, and grouping up the rines, when fades start rampaging
-when it's fairfly obvious that youc an't get resource dominance (4v4) rts or something. NOT upgrading the armory (you're in for the long haul <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
-not communicating. at all.
-putting down the rines
A diverse equipment allows you to deal with anything. a HA train is good and all but what if said HA train comes round corner and meets a stomping onos and the HAs dont know how to deal with it? chuck in some JPs hmg or SG or GL and you now have a means to keep stomping onos away from ur expensive HA train.
*BOOM* "Oh Sh**"
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
What about "motivational terms"?
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
What about "motivational terms"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hm, yes, commrage is useful at times, tis true.
but i'm talking about putting down your rines for no purpose at all. like "omg! you guys suck!", as opposed to "STOP HUMPING THE GODFORSAKEN ARMORY YOU IDIOTS!! GET TOYOUR WAYPOINT NOW!!!"
the former does nothing except make you feel oh so cool, the latter is brow beating for a purpose <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and lo there key, you haxing smurf you!
I tend to get Jp instead of HA 'cause it's cheaper and your troops move faster.
Biggest mistakes coms can do IMO is not listen to their troops. True the com is the main hancho, but one Marine who is sneaky and if you keep him alive can turn the game around. And I've experienced it and done it.
Especially keep your troop(s) alive if they have non-stock gear.
If your marines suck and stand all together 1 onos can stun them all but if they are good it cant
and agreed on whoever said not to put your rines down. you cant blame for lack of skill, only for lack of effort, and stupidity.
im usually v happy if i see an outpost die, if it was defended by the whole team and did everything in their ability to try and keep it alive.
on the other hand, its depressing seeing 2 or 3 people there, 2 or 3 people at armory, and 2 or 3 people somewhere random on map...
even if they're the lousiest shots in the community, i wont yell at them if they do their best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yep
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) <b>Electrifying <i>every </i>resource node.</b> This is fact, not a statement of opinion, Electricity is expensive. The only resource nodes that should be electrifed are the ones at key locations (hives). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, fades own elecced nodes
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) <b>Getting heavy armor over jetpacks.</b> This is an exact opposite of the problem in version 1.04, in which, the marine commanders would be obsessed with the notion that jetpacks could "own" anything in version 1.04. Now in version 2.01, heavy armor has taken the place of the jetpack. I don't know if anyone has experienced this, but a heavy train can easily be stopped by just one onos (level two hive) using stomp. The onos can just get adrenline and stomp around a corner over and over again, obstructing the heavy armor train from proceeding. And really there is nothing the heavy train can do, except maybe using a grenade launcher; But even then, with regeneration and correct timing the grenade launcher can't really do anything. The onos does not even have to kill any heavies, all it needs to do is stomp and let its teammates do the rest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are full of it. ONE onos can put a stop to an HA train? Do you actually expect people to believe this? I've seen this strategy, but it never works the way you claim. You will almost never stun the entire group, and it only takes one hmg'er to ruin your day. If more than one HA comes out of stun and you happen to be in their sight, you are dead before you can stomp again. It takes only one hmg'er and a gl'er to pressure you out of the room while the comm medspams and the welders do their thing.
And when will you have a group of 3 skulks on hand to take down the HAs with you in a coordinated attack? Never, unless llama clanners decide to stack aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If commanders would just research both technologies, those onos would not stand a chance. A diversity of technologies is always better than just one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waste of money, unless you have the aliens completely contained, where it is safe to goof off with your res.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) <b>Refusing to drop shotguns.</b> Shotguns are the best weapons a commander could possibly have in their arsenal for only ten resources. A possible negative sign could be the marine team whining that they don't have shotguns like the others, but strictly speaking, shotguns benefit your team so much. Shotguns force many aliens to retreat at the sight of them and also work wonders against fades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. I tire of dishing out shotties to some clanner who thinks he's 1337, only to see him die to a lone skulk and waste the ten res. Shotties are at their best during an all-or-nothing rush or as a fade counter. Supremo waste of res otherwise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5) <b>Upgrading the armory right away</b> This can be controversial, as it depends on the strategy the commander is going for. But in my opinion, I think the resources can be used for more important things. There just isn't enough resources to go around in the beginning, and using it on something that won't benefit the team for awhile (not to forget to mention you'll need resources to drop heavy weapons) just isn't worth it, no matter what strategy you are using.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's more viable than handing out three shotties to retard rambos.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6) <b>Clustering the entire marine base</b> A very common strategy is to use an electrified turret factory to cover the entire base. While this is good in the beginning, it becomes very problematic later on. Marines who spawn end up being stuck; Marines "humping" the armory and obstructing others trying to leave the base; Marines trying to move around and then get "worldspawned" because they didn't know the infantry portal was underneath them; The list goes on. It is better to just use two or three turrets, which is cheaper or the same price as electricity, to cover the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not the insta-lose strategy that some make it out to be, but it's awfully expensive for how early you need to whip it out for it to be at its most effective.
And when will you have a group of 3 skulks on hand to take down the HAs with you in a coordinated attack? Never, unless llama clanners decide to stack aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm "full" of it? You make it sound like I am bragging when I never even said I could it myself. If you are standing out in the open, then yes, one heavy machine gun can ruin your day. But around a corner, the heavy armor has to chase the onos around the corner, and can easily be devoured. You will very seldomly get team work in public games, but your teammates will see that there is a group of heavies stunned and, out of instinct, go for the kill. Eventually, this creates a chain reaction and your whole team joins.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sizer+Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No. I tire of dishing out shotties to some clanner who thinks he's 1337, only to see him die to a lone skulk and waste the ten res. Shotties are at their best during an all-or-nothing rush or as a fade counter. Supremo waste of res otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I am trying to explain is wrong with most commanders. Many commanders think shotguns are waste because you either give it to the whole team or to no one. But if your team moves in a group, and you couple a shotgun and a few light machine guns; you can make a very early powerful squad.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sizer+Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's more viable than handing out three shotties to retard rambos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't, three shotguns benefit your team right away. What does upgrading your armory do right away? A little wait bar you can watch for three minutes. And if you really have a problem with rambos, then scout which marines follow commanders and move in groups, and then drop them the shotguns and not the rambos.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sizer+Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Jan 21 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's not the insta-lose strategy that some make it out to be, but it's awfully expensive for how early you need to whip it out for it to be at its most effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never said it was a insta-lose strategy, nor did I ever say it will cause the marine team to lose. I was just stating it is annoying to try to move around that base as a marine later in the game, when you have to constantly be aware of what you are standing on (ie. Infantry Portal)
"Tonight, on Great Military Blunders..."
remember kids, always check what the hive is before relocating.
1) <b>Getting level one weapons before level one armor.</b> This common mistake was also in version 1.04, and sadly, it has still carried over to version 2.01.
2) <b>Electrifying <i>every </i>resource node.</b> This is fact, not a statement of opinion, Electricity is expensive. The only resource nodes that should be electrifed are the ones at key locations (hives).
3) <b>Getting heavy armor over jetpacks.</b> This is an exact opposite of the problem in version 1.04, in which, the marine commanders would be obsessed with the notion that jetpacks could "own" anything in version 1.04. Now in version 2.01, heavy armor has taken the place of the jetpack. I don't know if anyone has experienced this, but a heavy train can easily be stopped by just one onos (level two hive) using stomp. The onos can just get adrenline and stomp around a corner over and over again, obstructing the heavy armor train from proceeding. And really there is nothing the heavy train can do, except maybe using a grenade launcher; But even then, with regeneration and correct timing the grenade launcher can't really do anything. The onos does not even have to kill any heavies, all it needs to do is stomp and let its teammates do the rest.
If commanders would just research both technologies, those onos would not stand a chance. A diversity of technologies is always better than just one.
4) <b>Refusing to drop shotguns.</b> Shotguns are the best weapons a commander could possibly have in their arsenal for only ten resources. A possible negative sign could be the marine team whining that they don't have shotguns like the others, but strictly speaking, shotguns benefit your team so much. Shotguns force many aliens to retreat at the sight of them and also work wonders against fades.
5) <b>Upgrading the armory right away</b> This can be controversial, as it depends on the strategy the commander is going for. But in my opinion, I think the resources can be used for more important things. There just isn't enough resources to go around in the beginning, and using it on something that won't benefit the team for awhile (not to forget to mention you'll need resources to drop heavy weapons) just isn't worth it, no matter what strategy you are using.
6) <b>Clustering the entire marine base</b> A very common strategy is to use an electrified turret factory to cover the entire base. While this is good in the beginning, it becomes very problematic later on. Marines who spawn end up being stuck; Marines "humping" the armory and obstructing others trying to leave the base; Marines trying to move around and then get "worldspawned" because they didn't know the infantry portal was underneath them; The list goes on. It is better to just use two or three turrets, which is cheaper or the same price as electricity, to cover the base. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. If you go for a HA rush, you will not need armour upps early on. I agree its stupid not to, but you can survive without.
2. Electrification sucks, unless you go for the cluster and res rush strategy early on. It takes around 2-3 minutes before a fade starts eating away on all thing electrified, without much effort. In which way do an RT in a hive give more of a benefit than another RT? and in which way does elected ones defend a hive?
3. In 1.04 everyone got jetpacks cause jetpacks Owned. No doubt, a 25 res uppgrade, and a 9 re a piece eq, that made you fly infinately and better than a lerk, wins? HA however, was cheapened, and IS still the best for of warfare. Getting HA over JPs is a matter of situation, not a mistake. The onos stomp is a different question.
4. I agree, shotguns own, but you dont need to overspend using them, rather uppgrade or expand than hand out more than a few SGs at any time.
5. Just as HA is a valid strat, so is quick HWs. I belive you should try to uppgrade the armoury before even building an armslab at some times, depending on map and situation.
6. Clustering a marine base in the right way WILL be just as good as a normal base, just make sure you dont get telefragged while humping you dear armoury.
As said; if it works, dont argue. To add to that, Ive seen plenty of EVEN games where all these things have worked.