What To Weapon Upgrades Do Exactly?
Trayder
Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22127Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22127Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Increase damage by how much?</div> I know weapons upgrades increase damage and i know how much damage each weapon does unupgraded, what i want to know is by how much each upgrade effects the damage?
Everyone on the servers i play on seems to get level 3 weapons b4 level 1 armour and say armour is for nubs.
Everyone on the servers i play on seems to get level 3 weapons b4 level 1 armour and say armour is for nubs.
Comments
Which is pretty good, but imo armor 1 is way more important.
Armor 1 = 3 skulk/fade bites instead of 2
These people are complete idoits, don't listen to them.
I prefer armour 1 first always. After that it doesn't really matter much, but that armour one at the beginning will help SO much more than weapon 1. Though I suppose people don't really think of it in terms of how long you survive, but as in how fast you kill.
level 0 lmg: 10 dmg
level 1 lmg: 11 dmg
level 2 lmg: 12 dmg
level 3 lmg: 13 dmg
Armor 1 means that you survive for 3 bites (or swipes) instead of 2. However, a few parasites or spores and it is cut back down to 2, so armor 2 is worthwhile, especially if you are giving out medpacks frequently. Armor 3 increases it from 3 to 4 bites. The most common order that I hear about is a1, w1, w2, w3, a2, a3.
Just out of interest how many bullets does it take to kill a skulk with lev 0 and lev 1 weapons?
With lv. 1 LMG, skulk takes 10 bullets to kill.
WOW LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE MY GOD AN ENTIRE BULLET.
Versus...
Armor 1
With it, 3 bites to kill, without it 2 bites to kill. In the time it takes to get off the third bite, you can easily kill fire another 3-4 bullets at the very LEAST.
So really, armor 1 is better in all respects, as not only do you live longer, but you do more damage with it.
The only time i would ever work on weapons before i get armor 1, is if my marine team was super 1337 and could kill everything, but by the time u get level 3 weap, fades are gonna be out, so your going to need lvl 1 armor, i rarely ever go weapons b4 armor 1, and i advise that you go with the order above ^_^
Plus, weapons 3 on a lmg means you can kill a skulk in 3 less bullets or, .3 of a second.. its really no good until you get hmg's/shottys..
Just my opinion, take it or dont <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Weapons 2 and weapons 3 are very nice, especially with the higher level guns. Not so sure about the nade launcher, but a lvl3 shottie or HMG is pretty much big bad alien death with a trigger attached. However, don't diss on the level3 LMG. 13 dmg times three shots is nearly 40 dmg, compared to 30 dmg unupgraded. Since the LMG has the fastest ROF of the automatic weapons, it can pump out a healthy bit of damage at level3 all by itself. 13 x 50 = 650 dmg potential per clip, vs 10 x 50 for 500 dmg. it doesn't seem like a huge leap, but this is the difference between being able to go solo with a fade right out of the respawn, and just being dead meat. When the marines get Level3 Weapons, they can roll over any skulk they see, chase fades off with just LMGs, and dominate onos with just one HMG and a wide room.
HOWEVER, armor1 is always first. For all the upgrades, Arm1 gives the most benefit to the troops at the least cost. Motion tracking makes an interesting alternative though, but I've heard that when you have high level marine players in the server, MT is pretty unnecesary with their mad uberleet0r skilladillaz. For just your average joes though, it seems to help a lot knowing there's something coming up on them around the corner. Everyone loves wallhacks, and now they can be yours for the low low price of 20 + 40 Res! I think, I can never remember. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
So yes. Arm1, first. You then want to start getting the weapon upgrades and whatever upgrades help in the map you're currently on, plus the armory upgrade.
TBH, I've always liked the idea of, rather than upping the armory for fancy toys like JP or HA with the Proto lab, to just sink all the res into armor upgrades first for Arm3. An Arm3 shottie rush with footsoldier LAs can work wonders with meds and maybe a welder guy along for the ride to repair those 110 armor points. Also, if you get the ups quick enough, you won't have to worry terribly about getting the weapon ups. Pass out shotties when the fades show up, make sure your guys don't get ambushed on the way, and bam bam bam. Four skulk bites is way more damage than any alien should have time to dish out with a mixed squad of shotties and LMGers, even at weapons1 or even 0.
Anyway, just random info.
Btw, does the skulkz lowered hitbox in 3.0 make em easier or harder to kill since they have 10 less armour?
Btw, does the skulkz lowered hitbox in 3.0 make em easier or harder to kill since they have 10 less armour? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
much easier at medium to close range with an lmg, but harder at long range because of the cone of fire that the lmg has. Also, it further separates skilled aiming from lucky spamming.
and to comment on armor 1 first, it is all around the best first upgrade. I rarely use anything else. Buuuuuuutttt if you are working with good marines that listen, going w1 then w2 works well for defensive node-holding strats. If the aliens come to you, you have the advantage and armor becomes less important. Getting w2 <u>right</u> after w1 is a must though when you do this. Kinda funny that you get an armor upgrade when playing offensively, and a weapon upgrade for playing defensively, eh? On the other hand, in organized play, defensive marines don't really win.
And for welder too? If so does it repair faster?
- RD
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It multiplies your health by 50%<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Multiplying something with 50% actually means halving it, it <b>increases</b> your (practical) health by 50%.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the LMG has the fastest ROF of the automatic weapons<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The HMG has a faster ROF.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Weapons 1 would make a huge dif with shotties though cos each pallet gets improved seperately<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has nothing to do with the amount of pellets. If it had ten times as many pellets doing only a tenth of the damage per pellet, the increase would still eb the same. The shotgun makes the most damage per shot however, and that's why the increase is big. A 10% increase of a high number will be bigger then a 10% increase of a low number. However, the HMG deals out more damage per second, so it is even more effected. Of course the one-shot nature of shotguns also comes into effect in practical situations.
Going armor first <b>is</b> as close to a 'right' choice as you can come in this game. Of all the issues this is probably the one where there is most concensus. But of course there are some people who disagree, just as there are some people who still believe that the world is flat, as can be proved in this thread (the armor thing, not the world being flat): <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=51996&hl=armor+first' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...&hl=armor+first</a>
And for welder too? If so does it repair faster?
- RD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Turrets don't get upgraded in 2.01. From looking at the bug database however this is being put back into 3.0.
Mines don't get any benefit and neither do welders.
The HMG has a faster ROF.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It did in 1.04; however, I tested it in 2.0 or 2.01 (not sure which), and found that its rate of fire had been reduced to that of the LMG.
Good point !
In midgame that would higher the fade's chance against marines, if the commander didn't invest in more than one armor upgrade, but in weapon lvl3 .
Some people just skip over the importance of the commander like a little school girl. Its sad to see comments like this when it is a well known fact that "set-in-stone" commanding will get you "set-in-sh1t". No good commander or team sticks to ONE game plan every time. If that were the case Normandy would never happen and we'd all be blue eyed and blonde hair (but thats going off on another tangent).
-So, <span style='color:orange'>NUMBER 1 IMPORTANCE</span>: get a feel for your teams playing style and adhere and adjust your comm style to it. If your marines are sharpshooters and play as if r_drawviewmodel was set to 0, hook them up with some fire power to complement their skill. However the same may not hold true for a team full of "how do i get a better gun"-ers.
-<span style='color:orange'>IMO:</span> and i stress "IMO" i believe in most cases you should continue to get WEAPON upgrades until the Fade presence on the alien side poses a problem (generally i notice this is around wpn 2) so I usually have wpn 2 b4 i even get armour 1.
<span style='color:orange'>My reasoning:</span> Why do you need armour if your not dealing with fades?
<span style='color:orange'>A: </span> Frankly if your in a situation where the skulk is in a position to affect your armour (i.e. right on your a$$) its already too late for you. Firing at skulks at your feet is a task more suited for competent players (who would not need armour 1 in the first place). Its better to have the fire power to eliminate the skulk b4 he gets to you and bites you. 3 bites vs 2 is not a life -saving factor when it comes to skulks (unless your team travels in packs, but once again if that were the case you wouldnt need armr 1 in the first place).
<span style='color:orange'>B: </span> Armour is only useful upon the first attack, after that ur only left with 100 HP (unless you have a friend with a welder, but once again thats assuming u have a good team, which wouldnt need armr 1 in the first place)
-<span style='color:orange'>Summarize: </span> Logically, getting weapons 2 before armour 1 makes more sense when combating skulks.
However, Practically this may not always hold true and you may need to alter your comm tactics to address this.
<span style='color:orange'>Moral:</span> the best upgrade comes pre-equipped: Skill
Edit: If all your marines are playing like they have aimbots, then sure, stick with weapons upgrades, and don't waste your res on armor upgrades. But that doesn't happen on pubs.
As much as I'd hate to further improve the Fade, that seems like it might be a good idea, because it would reduce the rigidity of the upgrade order. The usefulness of armor 1 would be decreased, and armor 2 would become actually useful.
Right now, no one ever goes fade that I've seen in 3.0 since they die as fast or faster than skulks. And since the player is probably playing defensively to save the investment, does less damage to the marine team than skulks too. All because of hitbox fixes.
But that's besides the point. Tommorow we get to see some new balance fixes... hopefully putting us into "Release Candidate" mode.
As a note about 3.0's armor, apparently, now each level of armor upgrade actually increases marine life by an entire additional skulk bite... going from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 at armor lvl 3. Those armor upgrades start looking REAL attractive... of course, you'll need 'em if the enemy has sensory (focus), and they probably will. DMS still exists, but aliens can often get three hives up before the marines can reasonably lock one down. Marines can then easily take one of these hives, but the aliens may well have all three upgrades by that point.
The relevant posts:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>cxwf</b>
The reduction in marine armor came with a drastic increase in armor deflection percent (30% to 70%), making medpacks much less effective and welders MUCH more effective. Armor upgrades and carapace now no longer affect armor deflection at all. All armor except HA deflects 70%.
If you don't use welders or medpacks, marines now all take slightly more damage to kill than they used to, despite having 25 less armor, because of the increased deflection.
Lvl 0 150 vs 143
Lvl 1 190 vs 167
Lvl 2 230 vs 200
Lvl 3 270 vs 250 damage total <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Lucid</b>
Are you totally sure about those numbers? If you are correct, it would take 4 bites to kill a lvl2 armor marine no? 3 skulk bites = 225 dmg, lvl2 armor takes 230 dmg. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>cxwf</b>
Yes, I did just notice that, and it does seem a bit odd...
But check the numbers yourself. A lvl 2 has 100 hp + 65 armor. Armor takes 2 points of damage to go down by one. 65 * 2 = 130, 130 + 100 = 230.
Has anyone really checked to see if a lvl 2 marine actually takes 3 bites now?
Edit: I mean 4, of course. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>matso42</b>
.... and 5 bites to take down a lvl 3 armor marine instead of 4? Mmm... no wonder the marines feels pretty nasty in midgame...
It does make sense, in a way - 2, 3, 4, 5 skulk bites to take down a lvl 0,1,2,3 armor marine. And lerk bites does 60 damage, right? So you are looking at 3,4,4,5 lerk bites...
Fades does 80 damage IIRC, so would require 2, 3, 3, 4.
However, fear not... parasites are your friend. In order to take down the bite requirment by one, you need 7, 4, 1, 2 parasite hit to get it to 1, 2, 3, 4 hits respectivly.
It might be a good idea to increase parasite damage slightly to compensate. Upping it to 15 from the current 10 should make the skulk slightly nastier... the high energy cost for parasite should keep it from being overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>And now, putting the rumor to rest:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>cxwf</b>
4 skulk bites is 300...so it shouldnt take 5 bites even against level 3 armor. So skulk at 75 each is 2/3/4/4. Lerk at 60 each is 3/4/4/5. Fade at 80 each is 2/3/3/4. Onos at 90 each is 2/3/3/3. So that means each armor upgrade is worth something, just against different enemies. And of course little bits of extra damage, like a parasite or a little bit of Lerk Gas, will reduce a lot of those numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[Not so relevant] Once I got ejected for upgrading armor first. When I dropped Arms Lab, the team wanted to get lvl 3 weapons (and of course shotties and HMG:s). I briefly explained why armour 1 should be first and started researching. And so I got ejected. I was a bit **** for a while <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> [/Not so relevant]
[EDIT] Oops, sorry... I was unaware of <b>that word</b> being 'forbidden' [/EDIT]