Pete Rose And Baseball
Arcadius
Join Date: 2003-04-14 Member: 15491Members
Join Date: 2003-04-14 Member: 15491Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">should he be reinstated?</div> First off, a little bit of background on this issue.
<a href='http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3IIBSOTK5FU3MCRBAELCFEY?type=domesticNews&storyID=4098335' target='_blank'>http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;j...storyID=4098335</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Defiant Rose Still Harbors Hall of Fame Dream
Thu January 8, 2004 10:54 PM ET
By Stephen Wood
RIDGEWOOD, New Jersey (Reuters) - A defiant Pete Rose hit back at his growing number of critics on Thursday and insisted he will wait as long as it takes to be accepted into the Hall of Fame.
Rose's confession this week that he wagered on baseball games in 1987 and 1988 while manager of the Cincinnati Reds has sparked a welter of media coverage and public comment.
His gambling habit landed Rose, Major League Baseball's all-time hit leader, a lifetime ban from the sport in 1989, but for 14 years he continued to deny he bet on baseball.
The volte face has been laid bare in his autobiography -- published on Thursday -- and promoted with the help of excerpts in this week's edition of Sports Illustrated magazine and a special television interview on ABC's "Primetime" on Thursday.
While his supporters believe the 62-year-old should be allowed back into the sport and be eligible for the Hall of Fame, others have questioned the sincerity of his apologies and questioned the manner in which his confession was made.
But Rose told reporters: "The negative vibes have come out before anybody has read the book.
"I'm more concerned with reaction tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday ... when people read the book and see the (television) special, they can make an evaluation.
"You can't make an evaluation on six pages in Sports Illustrated, but they did. It's disappointed me."
Rose was speaking at a book-signing session in New Jersey for the launch of his autobiography, entitled "My Life Without Bars."
WORK ETHIC
As a player until 1986, the man nicknamed 'Charlie Hustle' for his unswerving work ethic had 4,256 hits in 24 big-league seasons. But Rose, who confessed to MLB commissioner Bud Selig in a private meeting 14 months ago, may have to wait until Selig lifts the lifetime ban to have a chance of being voted into he Hall of Fame.
"I'm an optimistic person," said Rose, who has to be reinstated by December 2005 to have a shot at the Hall of Fame.
"No matter how long you wait, it's got to be worth it.
"Fans understand that I made mistakes but I am trying to put it behind me. I do not want to live in the past. The last 14, 15 years are not important to me anymore.
"But I felt like a 1500-pound gorilla was lifted off my shoulders when I met with Bud Selig (in November 2002).
"I feel a lot better...I am at ease."
Rose was among friends on Thursday, accepting the cheers of hundreds of fans who queued for hours in freezing temperatures to buy his book.
The first person in line began waiting at 04.30 local time for the 1800 signing session to begin.
Rose is likely to have a harder job persuading a wider audience he deserves a second chance.
His co-author for the book, Rick Hill, told Reuters: "Pete deserves that.
"We have treated the themes in his book very seriously ... this is about a man trying to come to terms with what has happened to him.
"People say he is insincere, but it is not true. Okay, Pete is not a warm and fuzzy guy but the reaction this week has hurt him. He's reacting to that in the only way he knows how -- by being a fighter." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so here is the issue I'm interested in discussing. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling on the sport. He vehemently denied that for 14 years, and now has come out and admitted he indeed did bet on games, including games he was involved in. Pete Rose now hopes this will result in his lifetime ban from baseball being lifted and for him to be reinstated into the Hall of Fame. Should he be allowed back in considering he actually did gamble on baseball and there is no longer the possibility he was innocent of the charges?
I'll post my thoughts tomorrow after a few others have time to post. I'm especially looking forward to Monse's take on this considering what a huge baseball fan he is.
<a href='http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3IIBSOTK5FU3MCRBAELCFEY?type=domesticNews&storyID=4098335' target='_blank'>http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;j...storyID=4098335</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Defiant Rose Still Harbors Hall of Fame Dream
Thu January 8, 2004 10:54 PM ET
By Stephen Wood
RIDGEWOOD, New Jersey (Reuters) - A defiant Pete Rose hit back at his growing number of critics on Thursday and insisted he will wait as long as it takes to be accepted into the Hall of Fame.
Rose's confession this week that he wagered on baseball games in 1987 and 1988 while manager of the Cincinnati Reds has sparked a welter of media coverage and public comment.
His gambling habit landed Rose, Major League Baseball's all-time hit leader, a lifetime ban from the sport in 1989, but for 14 years he continued to deny he bet on baseball.
The volte face has been laid bare in his autobiography -- published on Thursday -- and promoted with the help of excerpts in this week's edition of Sports Illustrated magazine and a special television interview on ABC's "Primetime" on Thursday.
While his supporters believe the 62-year-old should be allowed back into the sport and be eligible for the Hall of Fame, others have questioned the sincerity of his apologies and questioned the manner in which his confession was made.
But Rose told reporters: "The negative vibes have come out before anybody has read the book.
"I'm more concerned with reaction tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday ... when people read the book and see the (television) special, they can make an evaluation.
"You can't make an evaluation on six pages in Sports Illustrated, but they did. It's disappointed me."
Rose was speaking at a book-signing session in New Jersey for the launch of his autobiography, entitled "My Life Without Bars."
WORK ETHIC
As a player until 1986, the man nicknamed 'Charlie Hustle' for his unswerving work ethic had 4,256 hits in 24 big-league seasons. But Rose, who confessed to MLB commissioner Bud Selig in a private meeting 14 months ago, may have to wait until Selig lifts the lifetime ban to have a chance of being voted into he Hall of Fame.
"I'm an optimistic person," said Rose, who has to be reinstated by December 2005 to have a shot at the Hall of Fame.
"No matter how long you wait, it's got to be worth it.
"Fans understand that I made mistakes but I am trying to put it behind me. I do not want to live in the past. The last 14, 15 years are not important to me anymore.
"But I felt like a 1500-pound gorilla was lifted off my shoulders when I met with Bud Selig (in November 2002).
"I feel a lot better...I am at ease."
Rose was among friends on Thursday, accepting the cheers of hundreds of fans who queued for hours in freezing temperatures to buy his book.
The first person in line began waiting at 04.30 local time for the 1800 signing session to begin.
Rose is likely to have a harder job persuading a wider audience he deserves a second chance.
His co-author for the book, Rick Hill, told Reuters: "Pete deserves that.
"We have treated the themes in his book very seriously ... this is about a man trying to come to terms with what has happened to him.
"People say he is insincere, but it is not true. Okay, Pete is not a warm and fuzzy guy but the reaction this week has hurt him. He's reacting to that in the only way he knows how -- by being a fighter." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so here is the issue I'm interested in discussing. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling on the sport. He vehemently denied that for 14 years, and now has come out and admitted he indeed did bet on games, including games he was involved in. Pete Rose now hopes this will result in his lifetime ban from baseball being lifted and for him to be reinstated into the Hall of Fame. Should he be allowed back in considering he actually did gamble on baseball and there is no longer the possibility he was innocent of the charges?
I'll post my thoughts tomorrow after a few others have time to post. I'm especially looking forward to Monse's take on this considering what a huge baseball fan he is.
Comments
He'll eventually be forgiven.
I think he'll also come to terms with not being in the Hall of Fame.
15 years of lying about the betting on baseball (which is strictly against the rules and is posted in every locker room) means you don't just suddenly get to about face and have all forgiven. The timing was very suspect; I mean come on, he could have admitted it anytime in the last decade, but instead chose to do it via a million-dollar book deal.
I personally think that he should be let in - after he's dead and can't appreciate it. That means his place would not be lost in history (lifetime average of .303, 4,256 hits, the last player/manager, etc.), but that his trangressions would not be rewarded while he was around to experience them. He's always been, well, a complete fatherless-child, if you know what I'm saying. A mean, spiteful, win-at-all-odds, SOB. His numbers don't lie, but he sure does.
hahaha
However he should still be banned from the sport of baseball, just to make an example that the rules will be enforced. Baseball players are some of the most important role models for todays youth, and he lowered baseball just that much.
Hopefully Pete Rose realizes what he did and is truly sorry for it.
It's seems we're all unanimous on Pete Rose needing to be punished. I personally favor the method Monse stated and keep the ban around until he's dead and can no longer profit for it. It makes no sense to me to let him back in when he was originally banned for gambling and he has now admitted to just that. Before his admission, at least there was a small iota of doubt of his guilt (though everyone was pretty sure he gambled). Now, he is a gambler, and he even admitted to gambling on games he was directly involved in as a manager. To let him be a part of baseball again would be a disaster. He's expressed interest in managing again if the ban is lifted, and quite a few teams would love to have him as a manager just for the fans he would draw due to his infamy. Plus, I fully expect him to bet again if given the chance, as he appears neither contrite, sorry, or changed to me. So, I do not in anyway want him associated with baseball as long as he lives. After his death, put him in the Hall then, as his performance on the field is definately worthy of being in there.
On a side note, my local newspaper has speculated Rose announced his guilt now for two reasons. 1) To help boost the sales of his new book. 2) To try to get eligible for reinstatement while the sports writers still vote on his admission so he won't have to go before the Veteran's Commitee which my newspaper writers believe will never let him in. What do you think of that? Does that sound plausible to you?
Finally, since the Rose thing doesn't seem to be leading to much debate, how about we examine a similar character. How about "Shoeless" Joe Jackson? He was banned from baseball along with 7 others I believe as part of the Black Sox scandal. Jackson, however, was exonerated of the charges in court were as the others were found guilty of fixing the World Series. Should he finally be let into Cooperstown or should he still remained banned so long after his death? I'm personally in favor of letting him in as I've read articles in the past that have convinced me of his innocence in the affair. How about the rest of you ? Monse?
Btw, Monse, does it scare you that you, a die-hard Cubs fan, told me, a die-hard Cardinals fan, "Well done!" in a discussion about baseball? Just doesn't seem right does it? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think his ban should be removed. He played so well in that Series. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that the stauate of limitations has long since run out on Shoeless Joe, and he should be let in. Lifetime .356 average, and a .964 fielding percentage - he was a machine. Keeping him out is just spitefulness from a commisioner that's been dead for 2/3rd's of century...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Btw, Monse, does it scare you that you, a die-hard Cubs fan, told me, a die-hard Cardinals fan, "Well done!" in a discussion about baseball? Just doesn't seem right does it? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the breaking of the last seal. The end is nigh!!!
^^
ell ya Monsieur, that is a great idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Btw, Monse, does it scare you that you, a die-hard Cubs fan, told me, a die-hard Cardinals fan, "Well done!" in a discussion about baseball? Just doesn't seem right does it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the breaking of the last seal. The end is nigh!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The end is nigh? Maybe the Cubs will actually win one then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Btw, Monse, does it scare you that you, a die-hard Cubs fan, told me, a die-hard Cardinals fan, "Well done!" in a discussion about baseball? Just doesn't seem right does it?? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the breaking of the last seal. The end is nigh!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Ahem* As a Cubbie, you should know that the first sign of the Apocalypse is if the Cubs and the Red Sox met in the World Series. Just think... we were so close to armageddon...
I'm hoping Clemens wins three games all year or something horrible (bad back or maybe a mild heart attack). I'd prefer St. Louis and the Cubs to finish above the Astros.
Heh, I hate Roger Clemens <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> The only pitcher I hate more would have to be David Wells. Anything short of a Darryl Kile ( <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> )that puts Clemens out of the season is a winning scenario for me.