Killing A Fleeing Alien Behind Corner.
Balance
Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11457Members
Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11457Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I have experienced this. Is it common?</div> I have noticed that (at least in 2.01) when alien runs away from me and I keep firing behind it. I can make a kill after it has disappeared behind the corner.
Let me give you an example.
If a fade is running away from me and I stop firing at it at the same instant as it disappears behind a corner, I usually don't get kill.
But if I continue to fire 1 more second after it is gone, it usually dies. Well fade is good example on fleeing alien or gorge. Others usually kill me or get killed before that. (Vanilla marine)
I've experienced it from the other side too. As a skulk it is reasonable to know that my behind is not where my eysight is so it is ok to die when my eyes are behind corner. But as a lerk?
Could it be that ricocets go trough some walls or bounce from opposing walls and my straight fire doesn't do the kill but bouncing bullets? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am just curious and would like to know if anyone else is experiencing this or has an answer for a fact?!
(For your information my ping is usually below 100, so it is not network lag in work.)
Let me give you an example.
If a fade is running away from me and I stop firing at it at the same instant as it disappears behind a corner, I usually don't get kill.
But if I continue to fire 1 more second after it is gone, it usually dies. Well fade is good example on fleeing alien or gorge. Others usually kill me or get killed before that. (Vanilla marine)
I've experienced it from the other side too. As a skulk it is reasonable to know that my behind is not where my eysight is so it is ok to die when my eyes are behind corner. But as a lerk?
Could it be that ricocets go trough some walls or bounce from opposing walls and my straight fire doesn't do the kill but bouncing bullets? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am just curious and would like to know if anyone else is experiencing this or has an answer for a fact?!
(For your information my ping is usually below 100, so it is not network lag in work.)
Comments
Another reason might have to do with the net code, that predicts whether you hit something or not on your client, I dont really know enough about it to think of a reason.
Actually half life has one of the better lag compensation systems out there.
Let me give you an example.
If a fade is running away from me and I stop firing at it at the same instant as it disappears behind a corner, I usually don't get kill.
But if I continue to fire 1 more second after it is gone, it usually dies. Well fade is good example on fleeing alien or gorge. Others usually kill me or get killed before that. (Vanilla marine)
I've experienced it from the other side too. As a skulk it is reasonable to know that my behind is not where my eysight is so it is ok to die when my eyes are behind corner. But as a lerk?
Could it be that ricocets go trough some walls or bounce from opposing walls and my straight fire doesn't do the kill but bouncing bullets? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am just curious and would like to know if anyone else is experiencing this or has an answer for a fact?!
(For your information my ping is usually below 100, so it is not network lag in work.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read this.
Most of what you want is in the last part but i copyed the whole part on the net code.
From <a href='http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/halflife/2.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/halflife/2.shtml</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The New Netcode
One of the biggest changes in the netcode is the fact that client framerates are no longer dependent on network updates. The older netcode requested a network update for every frame rendered, leaving modem users with low-end framerates on high-end machines. Even people on the best broadband couldn't get perfect connections and 72fps at the same time. With the new netcode however, server updates, client updates, and framerates are all completely independent of each other. 100 beautiful frames per second are now possible on your modem connection.
But that's just one of the improvements... Valve has also programmed in lag compensation for aiming, allowing for LAN-like play on even 33.6 modems! The effect is very similar to client-side hitscan, but it's completely server side, meaning the netcode is just as secure as any average FPS game's netcode.
On top of all these things, Valve has reduced bandwidth and made huge strides in the efficiency of the code. Modem users can now expect to be able to take on much larger games with more opponents onscreen with less lag. And most important of all, Valve made the netcode highly tweakable.
How It Works
I know what many of you are wondering... how is Valve compensating for lag? Well it's quite simple and elegant: let's say a modem user with a 200 ping shoots at an enemy. The server receives that packet saying he shot, and checks the players ping, which is 200. It then checks to see if the enemy was where he shot 200ms ago; if he was, the hit is counted. If he wasn't, the hit isn't counted.
Now this does have some disadvantages. First, and most noticeably, sometimes bullets seem to curve around corners as they hit you, because it takes a while for the hit (which actually happened a little while ago) to catch up with you. This can be somewhat annoying, but similar problems happen due to client-side movement prediction to begin with. The other disadvantage is that when you shoot someone, the actual hit happens a bit later than if you were on a LAN. If an enemy were to kill you before your shot gets to the server, then you lose anyways. In this manner, low-pingers still hold an advantage. Whether these problems are worth the ability to aim like you're on a LAN is up to you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except that HL will not let you do that. There is a maximum period of time after which you cannot get any hits(say your ping time is 1 second or something absolutely insane).
Anyways, have you played the original unreal tournament? It's really really annoying when you have to lag compensate, even 30-40 ms ping feels very bad and you can't hit **** with hit scan weapons. Playing half-life with a modem is tolerable on the other hand.
Ah! Harken unto the days when you would hear a spawn tube shoot out a person, they'd stand there while you killed them, then five minutes later as you're hacking the CC with five buddies watching your back, your health drops to nothing and someone magically gets a suppressor kill.
Its not annoying, you get used to it. I actually like having to lead my target a little bit. It adds to the sense of realism (bullets are fast, but not THAT fast).
Plus, its not abusable in the same way that HL is. Which is nice. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let me give you an example.
If a fade is running away from me and I stop firing at it at the same instant as it disappears behind a corner, I usually don't get kill.
But if I continue to fire 1 more second after it is gone, it usually dies. Well fade is good example on fleeing alien or gorge. Others usually kill me or get killed before that. (Vanilla marine)
I've experienced it from the other side too. As a skulk it is reasonable to know that my behind is not where my eysight is so it is ok to die when my eyes are behind corner. But as a lerk?
Could it be that ricocets go trough some walls or bounce from opposing walls and my straight fire doesn't do the kill but bouncing bullets? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am just curious and would like to know if anyone else is experiencing this or has an answer for a fact?!
(For your information my ping is usually below 100, so it is not network lag in work.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg mah brotha!! i know your pain, u dont know how much i hate it when Im onos, and im running, and i get killed around the corner somehow. gaaah111!111
*yes i cant even see the marines anymore from my view and i still die*
Their ping matters. If they are lagging like crap and shoot you when they see you, then the server recieves this information half a second latter, checks his ping and checks if you where where he aimed at the time. And then your client has to be informed that you where hit which is where your ping is relevant. Really, it's the sum of you and your opponents ping that matters.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not annoying, you get used to it. I actually like having to lead my target a little bit. It adds to the sense of realism (bullets are fast, but not THAT fast).
Plus, its not abusable in the same way that HL is. Which is nice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It detracts from the sense of realism that bullets travel faster when you shoot things farther away(your ping time is still the same) and at a snails pace when your litterally pressing the gun towards someone(i.e. bullets take your ping time to arrive, no matter if it is a kilometer away or 5 centimeters.). It detracts from realism that some people's bullets travel at very different speeds allthough you are all using the same guns.
Plus, In HL you see people with quite bad pings with relatively good scores. In UT the correlation between ping and score is so strong that you'd get almost an identical list of players if you listed after score or after ping in increasing order <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. UT's system is not fair, HPB's are just cannon fodder.
In HL the feeling is consistent across different servers, in UT it varies greatly with your ping.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah I agree with evo there, I kinda like that feel in Unreal Tourney. I mean, you have to compensate, but it simply feels different, but in a good way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if your the one with a low ping <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->.
It detracts from the sense of realism that bullets travel faster when you shoot things farther away(your ping time is still the same) and at a snails pace when your litterally pressing the gun towards someone(i.e. bullets take your ping time to arrive, no matter if it is a kilometer away or 5 centimeters.). It detracts from realism that some people's bullets travel at very different speeds allthough you are all using the same guns.
Plus, In HL you see people with quite bad pings with relatively good scores. In UT the correlation between ping and score is so strong that you'd get almost an identical list of players if you listed after score or after ping in increasing order <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. UT's system is not fair, HPB's are just cannon fodder.
In HL the feeling is consistent across different servers, in UT it varies greatly with your ping.
Only if your the one with a low ping <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I've seen some great HPB players on UT... Once you play couple times, you can predict easily where your shot will be a split second later... I used to be a shock h0 / sniper h0. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<-- was on UT, as an HPB, played for a clan.
However, HPB = get decimated by LPBs with same skill level. Hitscan weapon is really deadly vs. HPBs as an LPB. If they can aim good with that minigun, HPB stands nearly no chance in frontal confrontation.
HL is btw, client-hitscan based. Much easier for modem users. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Games that suck because of no lag compensation:
-Halo(when played lan on the xbox, it's exponentially more fun with no lag)
-Battlefield 1942 (shooting at an imaginary box miles ahead of a plane is no fun, for me at least)
-Tribes 2(although I didn't mind it too much because I mainly built defense and was a heavy with mortars)
Games that suck because of no lag compensation:
-Halo(when played lan on the xbox, it's exponentially more fun with no lag)
-Battlefield 1942 (shooting at an imaginary box miles ahead of a plane is no fun, for me at least)
-Tribes 2(although I didn't mind it too much because I mainly built defense and was a heavy with mortars) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm glad you mentioned Battlefield 1942 doesn't have the lag compensation system. i was thinking of getting that game. not anymore. thanks for saving me my money.
i can't stand games where you have to lead your target according to your ping and not according to bullet velocity and target distance. those of you who have learned to lead your target because of lag would get killed in real life because leading your target in real life is different to doing it because of lag.
i would like to know what other games have lag compensation coz those are the only ones i can tolerate.
Games that suck because of no lag compensation:
-Halo(when played lan on the xbox, it's exponentially more fun with no lag)
-Battlefield 1942 (shooting at an imaginary box miles ahead of a plane is no fun, for me at least)
-Tribes 2(although I didn't mind it too much because I mainly built defense and was a heavy with mortars) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm glad you mentioned Battlefield 1942 doesn't have the lag compensation system. i was thinking of getting that game. not anymore. thanks for saving me my money.
i can't stand games where you have to lead your target according to your ping and not according to bullet velocity and target distance. those of you who have learned to lead your target because of lag would get killed in real life because leading your target in real life is different to doing it because of lag.
i would like to know what other games have lag compensation coz those are the only ones i can tolerate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
BF1942 i thought used realistic bullet physics? As in not all bullets miles away will hit instantly where you shot, at a long distance in real life you would need to trail in front of your target and thats before wind compensation comes into it. Not to mention BF1942 relies heavily on your stance when you shoot, how long you track your target to maintain a steady shot and what weapon you are using.
I definetly didnt think it was due to the netcode and lag compensation.
- RD
Actually half life has one of the better lag compensation systems out there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*one of the best
Games that suck because of no lag compensation:
-Halo(when played lan on the xbox, it's exponentially more fun with no lag)
-Battlefield 1942 (shooting at an imaginary box miles ahead of a plane is no fun, for me at least)
-Tribes 2(although I didn't mind it too much because I mainly built defense and was a heavy with mortars) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm glad you mentioned Battlefield 1942 doesn't have the lag compensation system. i was thinking of getting that game. not anymore. thanks for saving me my money.
i can't stand games where you have to lead your target according to your ping and not according to bullet velocity and target distance. those of you who have learned to lead your target because of lag would get killed in real life because leading your target in real life is different to doing it because of lag.
i would like to know what other games have lag compensation coz those are the only ones i can tolerate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BF1942 i thought used realistic bullet physics? As in not all bullets miles away will hit instantly where you shot, at a long distance in real life you would need to trail in front of your target and thats before wind compensation comes into it. Not to mention BF1942 relies heavily on your stance when you shoot, how long you track your target to maintain a steady shot and what weapon you are using.
I definetly didnt think it was due to the netcode and lag compensation.
- RD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed. BF1942's weapons are not hitscan, and therefore do not fall into this discussion about lag compensation. You must lead your target in BF1942 because the bullets for all guns are projectile, and therefore take time to travel to your target.