Tatics Go Unchanged...
Haze
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A turn for the worse?</div> I've recently seen that its the same tatics being employed now over and over again on server after server. Its always defense, movement, sensory for aliens, and marines have the same old same old build order of IP's, armoury, TF, RT, arms, obs...
Nothing is changing in the field of tatics in NS anymore, it all just depends on how much "m4d sk1llz" the players have for each team and who will win. No more do commanders actually <i>give</i> orders to marines, but just place the structures in the monotonous order, supply the medpacks and occasionaly give an RT out to a whiny marine.
Just today I was playing on eclipse and had placed a TF in a corridor intersection by triad and powersub. This completly blocks off the aliens from comming that way and forces them to come around to the triad area to attack SSA and things beyond it, but of course the marines didnt approve and thought it was a major waste of res. If only those single marines had actually MOVED and listened to orders (wow theres a thought) instead of typing and yelling complaints about how "our commander sux" and "hes a nub", we might have actually been able to cap the remaining RT's, gathered res and attacked computer core (their only hive, eclipse was going up so that previous base was prepared for the aliens flooding in once its up).
Another game where we had placed movements on aliens instead of the same old defenses (still today). Most of the team (some were supportive) erupted with complaints and rage about "wh is teh nub gorge who put thm mvts down?!11." Despite the supportive players efforts for the team instead of complaining (IE most people put up RT's, even some who were complaining), the marines got a siege up within range of data.
This was absolutly no problem as it was poorly defended and quickly established under haste, leaving many blind spots for the TF, and only two solem marines to guard it along with a phase. If half our team just got off their friggan **** and decided to actually HELP attack we would haev saved the hive and maybe won! But no, the hive was sieged and the morons blamed it on movements.
I blame it on lack of teamwork, which is really where NS is winding down to.
Nothing is changing in the field of tatics in NS anymore, it all just depends on how much "m4d sk1llz" the players have for each team and who will win. No more do commanders actually <i>give</i> orders to marines, but just place the structures in the monotonous order, supply the medpacks and occasionaly give an RT out to a whiny marine.
Just today I was playing on eclipse and had placed a TF in a corridor intersection by triad and powersub. This completly blocks off the aliens from comming that way and forces them to come around to the triad area to attack SSA and things beyond it, but of course the marines didnt approve and thought it was a major waste of res. If only those single marines had actually MOVED and listened to orders (wow theres a thought) instead of typing and yelling complaints about how "our commander sux" and "hes a nub", we might have actually been able to cap the remaining RT's, gathered res and attacked computer core (their only hive, eclipse was going up so that previous base was prepared for the aliens flooding in once its up).
Another game where we had placed movements on aliens instead of the same old defenses (still today). Most of the team (some were supportive) erupted with complaints and rage about "wh is teh nub gorge who put thm mvts down?!11." Despite the supportive players efforts for the team instead of complaining (IE most people put up RT's, even some who were complaining), the marines got a siege up within range of data.
This was absolutly no problem as it was poorly defended and quickly established under haste, leaving many blind spots for the TF, and only two solem marines to guard it along with a phase. If half our team just got off their friggan **** and decided to actually HELP attack we would haev saved the hive and maybe won! But no, the hive was sieged and the morons blamed it on movements.
I blame it on lack of teamwork, which is really where NS is winding down to.
Comments
But then Kama Sutra was invented.
Most of my friends played 2.0 for about 2 months, then stopped. These were the same people that played 1.04 nonstop, and kept thinking up new ideas. I took a break, so I don't know why they all stopped, but I'm guessing the rest got disgusted with Steam or not going Steam, etc. etc. We're fractured, and Valve is partly to blame for it.
The only good news is that we always come back, everyone always does. There just has to be somewhere for them to go.
The thing is, that's a problem with the players. There is little that you can do in the game to actually change that.
I actually find that the games started under weird circumstances (commander relocates to odd area in the opening minutes, game starts with only one marine, aliens outnumbered but the marines have horribly outlandish pings, etc.) are the most entertaining. Because under those weird circumstances, things work differently, different strategies are tested, and the fun begins.
|\/|3 2 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bah. I don't know... its always the same. Ok... its meant that way ^^
But in 1.04 times it wasn't boring at all... but now... I played 2 or 3 months and it just got sooo boring.
Explain?
Explain? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
|V| = M
3 = E
2 = too
So, it means "Me too"
[QUOTE=Speed 2 Dave,Jan 2 2004, 06:51 PM]"Most of the players who used to enjoy thinking up new strategies, trying them out, or even cooperating with someone else's ideas are dormant."
I have gone dormant until 3.0 but, when I did play I did what ever the commander told me when I was a marine and when I was an alien I would tell the people that bitched about not dropping defense first to just adapt.
So, i just go kill some noob marines to get my res
Oh, I also like playing with a team that drops sensory first.
I would never do it because I dont wanna get slammed by half the team. But if somone does it I do enjoy it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can join any server and have an incredibly high chance of finding exactly what he describes. He's not playing on a crappy server, you just have one server that is unnaturally different.
There's a difference between them, maybe you can see it, but your 'I'm better then you' elitist crap you just tried on Ha.ze isn't helping.
As for the movement chamber example, the team has every reason to complain if someone dropped a chamber without consulting the team. Unlike with marines, for aliens there is no one player who has the right to decide tactics and it's extremely obnoxious when a single Gorge takes the game into his own hands without asking anyone.
As for the movement chamber example, the team has every reason to complain if someone dropped a chamber without consulting the team. Unlike with marines, for aliens there is no one player who has the right to decide tactics and it's extremely obnoxious when a single Gorge takes the game into his own hands without asking anyone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bah. People can say "find a good server with active admins and become a regular" until they are blue in the face, but that does not change the fact that innovation has been lacking as of late.
In fact it has nothing to do with it. In the context of tactical diversity, regular playing on a server of your choice where rules of good conduct are enforced.....doesn't really mean jack squat. If anything the tactics would become even more stagnant since the normal player base will inevitably find something that works a good percentage of the time and use it alot (as has been occuring on many a "good server"), while the lack of "fresh blood" coupled with the asinine idea that regulars somehow should have "seniority" in any decision making makes for a nicely inbred server community. Thinking that locking yourself away where you can play with the same people over and over will somehow lead to broadened horizons is simply not logical.
While there is something to be said about a good server with active admins and great regulars, if there is too much weeding going on you lose that wee bit of chaos that forces us humans to adapt to our situation. If everything always goes your way there's no need for adaptation, thus no need for new tactics. So why bother? Nothing new will occur because everyone will be so darned comfortable with what they have.
While they may have reason to complain, it is sheer idiocy to give up just because the situation changed a bit and left your comfort zone. This is the problem people are having. When the time is right for free thought, the jaded players of NS decide to scratch their backsides and whine.
and unfortunatley, besides lerkbite and focus and some hitbox changes, i don't think a god dammed thing is changing in 3.0 besides NS:C(S)
As for the movement chamber example, the team has every reason to complain if someone dropped a chamber without consulting the team. Unlike with marines, for aliens there is no one player who has the right to decide tactics and it's extremely obnoxious when a single Gorge takes the game into his own hands without asking anyone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did consult, and when I hear three "yes" on voice comm, the one "no you nub get defense" then I'm going to drop movement. Then the complaining and blaming starts, which is why I think natural selection itself needs to diverse itself to make pub play more tatic based than "whoever the best player is" base.
Hard to say why this was, because there's nothing that makes hives more valuable in 3.0. If anything they're less valuable, since a lot of alien 2 and 3 hive abilities have nerfs. And HA is as dominating as ever, which means that RTs >> hives. Maybe just playing on a new version made you guys play more flexibly.
Focus *would* switch things up a little by making sensory-first a very viable strategy, but then marines only need to get armor1 to make light marines require two slow bites, nullifying much of its value. If anything, focus will make games far less interesting, since marine relocation will be a lot more difficult, with the one-bite kills and delayed armor upgrades spelling fast death for rines.
I just spammed at length about how NS isn't balanced simply if the two teams have an even win/loss ratio, but also if many of the potential strategies available to either team are more worthwhile. If certain strategies are so dominant that failing to do them gets you screamed at, then NS simply isn't balanced.
If you want a sample of what a #nspug game is like, I suggest you head on over to <a href='http://nspug.4488.org/' target='_blank'>http://nspug.4488.org/</a> and download the Lerk Rush demo on the right of your screen.
There is a lot of room for innovation in these PUG games, and the teams are more or less very even. Give a shot!
#nspug, gamesnet.
-hawthorne
Teamplay != tactics. The 'Turret Factory hallway denial' is vastly different then some contrived team effort that takes 7 out of 8 players to pull off. The thing is, while you might be able to FORCE tactics with a good server and players, many servers with good players know what works and stick to it. When 2.0 came out you saw lots of different tactics and tricks being tried. Same for 1.04. Then it levels out to the 'D-M-S' grind because IT WORKS. And the number one cause of this is <b>the game is not balanced</b>.
Which is what the problem is, one thing shouldn't just 'work'. All should be just as viable. And like I said, that means it's unbalanced.
You guys are asking for some sort of magical gameplay change that will make everyone in the game open-minded and willing to try new things. It's never going to happen, because it's impossible. Your problem is with the players, not the game, and if you want to play with better people then the only solution is to play on a server with a better community, or join a clan. There's nothing more to it than that.
You guys are asking for some sort of magical gameplay change that will make everyone in the game open-minded and willing to try new things. It's never going to happen, because it's impossible. Your problem is with the players, not the game, and if you want to play with better people then the only solution is to play on a server with a better community, or join a clan. There's nothing more to it than that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did the topic of skill and player-hatin' ever come up? I thought the original point was that no one uses or tries new things, to which I said it's because they KNOW what works (And clanners should know this more then ANYONE) and the reason one thing works is because of balance. Why do 9/10 games use a bonsai base? Because it WORKS. Sure you can try without it and still win, but really Bonsai Basing costs little to nothing and IT WORKS.
EDIT: And the major cause of the 'balance' problem, D-M-S aside, the lack of tactics is caused by the cramped Halflife maps. Honestly you won't see anyone denying an area in a map the size of my basement, because it's just... too hard to do.
Cloaked Onii randomly devouring passers by... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->