Max Number On Entities

Lt_Gravity

<div class="IPBDescription">harder than I thought...</div> is it just me? the number of entities allowed on a ns map is incredible low. yes, we all understand why. anyone playing the 1.0 tanith knows WHY! but acording to the ns-mappingguide you will need following numbers of them:

(guide assuming 32 players max)
- 32 player starts
- 16 marinestarts
- 3x16 alien start (16 for each hive) -> 48
- 1 cc
- 3 hives
- 1 info_mapinfo
- 1 info_gameplay
- 4 "join modes" (marine, aliens, spec, random)
- 4 "join mode" signs (most likely func_illusionary)
------
> 110 entities <

and this is without any resnodes, seperated lights or ambience!!!
so you will have max 90 entities for own use.
this is how ns mapping works so far <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

ok lets test this one assuming max players 20. that would make 74 for map basics. sounds much better in my ears! +36 entities.

I think 20 playerstarts should be enough. 20 player server also seem to lacking gameplay. so if you are getting spawnproblems, you know, that your server has TOO MANY SLOTS! XD
how do you guys solve this problem?
me started with a really "massive" design so only few func_walls and only few additiv effects will be needed. instead Im goin to spend a huge number of entities into the "atmosphere"-pot, adding a lot of ambience_generic, sparks, etc.

statusq

Straight from mapping guideline Appendix B: Runtime Entities

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The guidelines limit the runtime entity count for a map, but this number isn't the same as the entity count displayed by an editor. The following entities that are removed when the map loads can be ignored for the purposes of this limit:
info_player_start
info_team_start
info_location
info_null
light without any "targetname" (Name in Hammer's object dialog)
light_spot without any "targetname"

There are two developer commands that mappers can use to assist in staying under the runtime entity limit: "numents" and "entityinfo". "numents" displays the current runtime entity count--running this after a map as first loaded will give the number to use for comparason to the limit. "entityinfo" displays a listing of loaded entity types with the detected count of each; mappers can use this command to find out what types of entities are contributing most heavily to the total count to help them optimize.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

EDIT: link to the mapping guidelines: <a href='http://natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html' target='_blank'>http://natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html</a>

Sir_Pepe

Well, i solce the Problem by following the guidelines <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->fewer than <b>300</b> runtime entities used on the map (fewer than 200 recommended)
[...]
Appendix B: Runtime Entities
The guidelines limit the runtime entity count for a map, but this number isn't the same as the entity count displayed by an editor. The following entities that <b>are removed when the map loads can be ignored for the purposes of this limit</b>:

o <b>info_player_start</b>
o <b>info_team_start</b>
o info_location
o info_null
o light without any "targetname" (Name in Hammer's object dialog)
o light_spot without any "targetname"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For your join-signs: simply put the four bruhses into one single entity. If you overdo this, it might lead to VIS errors (the entity mights contribute to the wpolys through walls and so on)... but it can save a lot of entities.
But don't do that with func_ladders! I did this in early versions von ns_fenris, it made the ladders almost impossible climb and crashed the server serveral times!

Lt_Gravity

@ sir pepe:
but this made ns_fenris something special I allways will remember the time, when we neededsome ha´s near one hive. me fully armed (1.0 ha were sowhat expensive ) and jupmped the ladder to end up on the top. I ended up but 1 metre in frontof thelader in the air. and the aliens had one ha less to care...

I liked fenris, maye ask this "I know how to decompile but wont tel anybody"-guy to decompile the map for you, so you have some basic architecture recovered at least.

chopped down the number of max entities in my map... and found another prob: I guess info_location counts to the number of max entities, right? at the beginning I thought of creating the most atmospheric map with lots of additional light, "{"-textured (seethrough) objects and a massive amount of ambience. what is left is the will, to create a map that has some nice effects, at least. SOME! the entity count is quite too... dunno...

edit:
oops! didnt read the previous posts... thx !!!

*radio* "all clear!" *radio*