A Plea For 3.0.
DoL_Thunder
Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23152Members
Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23152Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Correct 2.0 official maps.</div> All I ask is for mapmakers to review their maps on the current topics I am about to list, who never had to crouch as an Onos to walk off a hive or got stuck on the top end of a ladder while trying to walk foward and needed to jump-crouch over it?
This is not a suggestion thread, more like a "buglist" or "not cool designs list".
A list of maps that strongly needs reviewing and corrections by the mapmakers and why:
ns_bast - Ladders that stuck you at the top, lots of places where the Onos must crouch to move (Engine Hive, Refinery and near the second RT in feedwater are the most annoying), marine start is very difficult for Onos to attack (they come from 2 very vulnerable entrances, the vertical elevator and the rotating elevator) and lots and lots of vents where heavy marines can place Sieges to hit the hives but no Onos can reach them.
ns_caged - Sewers <b><i>almost</i></b> always makes you teleport/redempt (not respawn) in the water, making you a very easy target for any marine above the ladders, also the only exits to it are ladders that usually stuck you on top, forcing you to jump off them while being too vulnerable, again very easy to put a siege outside and protect it from aliens. There is only one way to leave the Ventilation hive for Onos and gorges without help from skulks to get in the vents, and it is the slow moving elevator that puts you on a very vulnerable spot. Ventilation hive itself is very hard to move around as an Onos (yes Im talking about them a lot, because if we were still at 1.04, then the maps would be perfect, but they are too small for our new popular big fella).
ns_nothing - Narrow hallways outside almost every key location, like marine start, powersilo hive and cargo bay hive. This makes it easy for marines as the aliens virtually can't dodge much in narrow, long corridors. If there's an Onos present, there are no room for more aliens on the hallway, but you can fit 6+ Heavies there. Also, all the elevators move too slow.
Please don't take this thread as a flaming thread, its just some points I think mapmakers should look at and correct before 3.0 release. If they fix these, their maps will be perfect IMO.
This is not a suggestion thread, more like a "buglist" or "not cool designs list".
A list of maps that strongly needs reviewing and corrections by the mapmakers and why:
ns_bast - Ladders that stuck you at the top, lots of places where the Onos must crouch to move (Engine Hive, Refinery and near the second RT in feedwater are the most annoying), marine start is very difficult for Onos to attack (they come from 2 very vulnerable entrances, the vertical elevator and the rotating elevator) and lots and lots of vents where heavy marines can place Sieges to hit the hives but no Onos can reach them.
ns_caged - Sewers <b><i>almost</i></b> always makes you teleport/redempt (not respawn) in the water, making you a very easy target for any marine above the ladders, also the only exits to it are ladders that usually stuck you on top, forcing you to jump off them while being too vulnerable, again very easy to put a siege outside and protect it from aliens. There is only one way to leave the Ventilation hive for Onos and gorges without help from skulks to get in the vents, and it is the slow moving elevator that puts you on a very vulnerable spot. Ventilation hive itself is very hard to move around as an Onos (yes Im talking about them a lot, because if we were still at 1.04, then the maps would be perfect, but they are too small for our new popular big fella).
ns_nothing - Narrow hallways outside almost every key location, like marine start, powersilo hive and cargo bay hive. This makes it easy for marines as the aliens virtually can't dodge much in narrow, long corridors. If there's an Onos present, there are no room for more aliens on the hallway, but you can fit 6+ Heavies there. Also, all the elevators move too slow.
Please don't take this thread as a flaming thread, its just some points I think mapmakers should look at and correct before 3.0 release. If they fix these, their maps will be perfect IMO.
Comments
I can't believe that one wasn't fixed for 2.0
i wish
i wish <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's lost.
Why? It's just so bad to try to go up a railing and just fall back down as you helplessly try to get up. The only solution is to time a jump and that's not always easy in the heat of combat.
but other movement restrictions are simply a penalty for being the onos. If an Onos were intended to be small and quick, it'd be a skulk. But it's not. It's a large alien that can't go everywhere.
Ladders do need to be looked at.. but the Half Life engine handles ladders like.. well.. crap. Some of the worst laddr physics EVER.
No offense intended, but I think some of the points are rather moot. Onos shouldn't have a smooth go of it.
It's not that bad, it's only due to the Onos massive hull. I never have problems with marines or other aliens when climbing ladders.
In comparison, I've been playing Deus Ex again lately, a game that uses the Unreal engine. Try to climb over the top of a ladder while looking slightly up and down and you'll do an "Onos jig".
ns_origin - If an Onos is at Furnace Hive, it can't walk to any other hives without walking through the marine spawn (of course without the help of MCs)
ns_origin - If an Onos is at Furnace Hive, it can't walk to any other hives without walking through the marine spawn (of course without the help of MCs) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
can it? I'm sure I can. I think you mean you can't move from any hive to another without passing by the doubles or MS. And of course, the double level of ventilation (can't go up the ladder quite easily enough) and the fact you can't go anywhere from ventilation apart the double rt
can it? I'm sure I can. I think you mean you can't move from any hive to another without passing by the <b>doubles</b> or MS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhh there's a problem....Skulks, gorges and Leks can walk there just fine, Marines and Fades have to crouch to get through and well....the Onos is too big and fat to fit through the vent leading to double res.
map makers need to learn to keep more then one copy of there maps
The fact is, there are a lot of hives which have exits that are impossible for something like an Onos to get all the way down without getting shot up to hell and back. It's one reason Fade is seen so much more often than Onos, along with the halved pricetag. However, since the Onos sweeps through undefended marine positions with the subtlety and tenderness of a noisy space-rhino, as long as the Onos can find a way out of base, it can present the marine team with a two-front situation. Most hive assaults will taper off with an onos camping the marine base IPs and PG. Also, Onos make end-game, when more than two people have saved 100 res, much faster, assuming both onos don't get waxed due to stupidity and the ever-present God-complex.
Why? It's just so bad to try to go up a railing and just fall back down as you helplessly try to get up. The only solution is to time a jump and that's not always easy in the heat of combat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks can climb railings in 3.0.
Max
Ducking essentially negates most of the onos problems with ladders. As for the other bits.. Oh well.
Edit: Ducking for ladders and stuff as well as knowing how to get to somewhere safely are part of an onos. It's not that hard to learn like the blink/swipe/blink of a fade or anything.
Why? It's just so bad to try to go up a railing and just fall back down as you helplessly try to get up. The only solution is to time a jump and that's not always easy in the heat of combat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks can climb railings in 3.0.
Max <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yay, railings have gotten me killed many times
Whoever said they wanted bast to be lost deserves to be shot, thats an awesome map.. and you have no reason to insult the person who made it, when you cant even come close to something like it
Its very apparent when Marines are situated up high near the Waste node, as they can easily get any Onos to 1/2 health (provided they have reasonable upgrades and aim) in the time it takes to get into the hive and up the ladder (which can also be blocked by a TF/turret). Which brings up another problem being that the only way up there is using the ladder, meaning its very hard to attack as a Skulk/Onos.
Stop whining.
Stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dont start a flamewar. We are just pointing out some map's flaws that we would like to be corrected before NS 3.0 is released.
Stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dont start a flamewar. We are just pointing out some map's flaws that we would like to be corrected before NS 3.0 is released. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
When two people back to back complain about the same map when there's a sticky thread with a changelog clearly stating that the waste hive has been changed as of 3.0, my temper gets short.
And if you think that's a flame.. Hooboy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Like I said, most ladder issues can be resolved by ducking on the ladder. Learning when to release duck when off the ladder on top is a bit of a skill, but after four or five goings-up on the ladder, you get the hang of it.
A major issue in most maps is being able to build in the bottom of v0ids, most marine structures die but the comm chair survives with 3 bars of health, being at the bottom of a v0id the comm chair is invisible from above and a rine can jump down and get in. Several chambers also live but they can be scanned and seiged.
Cargo in ns_tanith has going as fade in the water (or sometimes u can sink phases in there and build an underwater base), and the weird L shaped room just behind fusion hive which u can build a phase through the wall.
*when i can be bothered or next time i get very bored
map with problems in them which are the most hated by me.
ns_origin ; the random killer elevators. (just last night on a pcw our opponent lost a fade to one, though hilarious for us, they didnt like that ;P)
Ventilation hive fences, you can so easily get stuck in them.
ns_bast ; the thing between MS and Main Aft, door or what ever, seriously. You can kill yourself with it for crying out loud. Get rid of it, pls :/
ns_bast: Fix the vent at marine start. At the moment there is no point welding it as the aliens can open/close it at will. (open it to let some skulks through, close it to give the sporing lerks cover <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> )
two reasons. 1, the source file was lost in a hd crash (From now on, flayra demands that you send him not only a copy of the compiled map but also a copy of the source file just in case.)
2 The designer got so annoyed at everybody saying how bad his map was that he left the NS Community, which is a shame, becasue it was a decent map.
As for nancy, the remake team have got a version together, but r-speeds are too high in places and it is doubtful that they will be able to get them down in time for 3.0.
My only problem with bast's Marine Start is how vulnerable to attacks it is in the start of game and how hard of access it is to oni at end of game. Else, I agree with Flash, the map got perfect atmosphere. (Is it just me or did the Mother easter egg leave with 2.0?)
Don't worry be happy, most of these problems have been fixed in 3.0