How To Break A Turtle.
Scribbles
Join Date: 2003-11-05 Member: 22323Members
Join Date: 2003-11-05 Member: 22323Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A little story.</div> Okay, first I'll give you the definition of a turtle, in NS terms that is.
A turtle is when the Marine team is starting to lose, and they either lock themselves up in their starting point or inside an alien hive. They'll use any means to keep the alien team out, whether it be turrets, heavy weaponry or both. They'll have only one Resource tower, but over time, the comander will manage to get enough resources by that one turret and RFK to give all his marines heavy armor and big weapons.
These kind of turtles can be very hard to break, especcially when it's in one of your hives and you don't have your third hive abilities.
Yes they are very hard to break indeed, but not impossible.
Let the Lurking Gorge tell you an interesting story on how to break a turtle.
First of all, you have to stop suiciding into their base and give them free RFK. Tell your team they should stop too. They may not listen at first, but over time they too will realise their efforts are futile and they will start listening.
When they have stopped suiciding, tell them too start hoarding resources right outside their base. This should be easy, since you control 90% of the RT's on the map. If you don't, then you should get more RT's asap.
The commander, who is wondering what the aliens are up to, will send a few LA marines, or maybe even a HA, outside to check what's going on. These scouts shouldn't be killed immediately, but only when they start posing a threat to the aliens, IE they start knifing an RT or something.
Basically, you want to give the marines the idea that they are back in the game again, that they have a possibility to win with their shiny armors and weapons.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Once this happens, their fate is sealed.
By the time the commander is planning a HA train rush, or any other form of hive rush, your team should have enough resources to go Onos, or at least fade. Make sure your team is close to the marine base, but in a way that the marines aren't bothered by them.
Soon, the commanders will have his HA team march out of the base, killing every OC that might have been placed there. "<i>OMG WE OWN</i>" they will think. They're wrong.
Right when they reach you first hive, your team will march into their empty turtle shell and wreach havoc. Main targets are phase gates, so the marines can't quickly return to the base, and the IP's and command chair.
Any players that die to turret fire and marines left behind on base duty, will respawn in the hive and harass the Marines that are trying to kill your hive.
The marines in your hive will not return to save their base, because they're too far away. The best chance they'll have is to keep on killing the hive and try to outwin you... but they will fail. You need to kill one base, and they need to kill at least two, with considerable distance between them.
When their turtle is inside on of your hives, you can put up the final hive. This means they'll now have to kill three hives instead of one. Seeing as your players have been hoarding res, they can also put down any other hives that have been killed by the HA train.
Without their base and commander, a HA train is easy to kill. No med-Packs, no ammo/armory = dead HA.
The marine commander might try to start a new turtle by droping a command chair at the other hive as their base get's pummeled, but this is just delaying the inevitable, since they won't have their turret's/OB's?IP's and what have you (remember that the'll also be incredibly low on resources).
And that, my feloow gorges and skulks, is how the alien team defeats the hive lockdown turtle, quite easy if you ask me.
It might seem impossible for pubs, because it requires teamwork hax, but after 10~15 minutes of suiciding into their turtle, any alien player will listen to a player with a good plan.
I've seen it happen so many times. Aliens get their hives shot up while they destroy the marine turtle, aliens have no hives left (1 building) and a few minutes later all three hives are up again and the HA's are without a commander and base, peeing their pants, congratulating the Alien team on their wonderfull comeback as they die.
Only it's not a comeback, it's just the alien team realising that in some situations, strategy > action.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>TEH END!~</span>
A turtle is when the Marine team is starting to lose, and they either lock themselves up in their starting point or inside an alien hive. They'll use any means to keep the alien team out, whether it be turrets, heavy weaponry or both. They'll have only one Resource tower, but over time, the comander will manage to get enough resources by that one turret and RFK to give all his marines heavy armor and big weapons.
These kind of turtles can be very hard to break, especcially when it's in one of your hives and you don't have your third hive abilities.
Yes they are very hard to break indeed, but not impossible.
Let the Lurking Gorge tell you an interesting story on how to break a turtle.
First of all, you have to stop suiciding into their base and give them free RFK. Tell your team they should stop too. They may not listen at first, but over time they too will realise their efforts are futile and they will start listening.
When they have stopped suiciding, tell them too start hoarding resources right outside their base. This should be easy, since you control 90% of the RT's on the map. If you don't, then you should get more RT's asap.
The commander, who is wondering what the aliens are up to, will send a few LA marines, or maybe even a HA, outside to check what's going on. These scouts shouldn't be killed immediately, but only when they start posing a threat to the aliens, IE they start knifing an RT or something.
Basically, you want to give the marines the idea that they are back in the game again, that they have a possibility to win with their shiny armors and weapons.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Once this happens, their fate is sealed.
By the time the commander is planning a HA train rush, or any other form of hive rush, your team should have enough resources to go Onos, or at least fade. Make sure your team is close to the marine base, but in a way that the marines aren't bothered by them.
Soon, the commanders will have his HA team march out of the base, killing every OC that might have been placed there. "<i>OMG WE OWN</i>" they will think. They're wrong.
Right when they reach you first hive, your team will march into their empty turtle shell and wreach havoc. Main targets are phase gates, so the marines can't quickly return to the base, and the IP's and command chair.
Any players that die to turret fire and marines left behind on base duty, will respawn in the hive and harass the Marines that are trying to kill your hive.
The marines in your hive will not return to save their base, because they're too far away. The best chance they'll have is to keep on killing the hive and try to outwin you... but they will fail. You need to kill one base, and they need to kill at least two, with considerable distance between them.
When their turtle is inside on of your hives, you can put up the final hive. This means they'll now have to kill three hives instead of one. Seeing as your players have been hoarding res, they can also put down any other hives that have been killed by the HA train.
Without their base and commander, a HA train is easy to kill. No med-Packs, no ammo/armory = dead HA.
The marine commander might try to start a new turtle by droping a command chair at the other hive as their base get's pummeled, but this is just delaying the inevitable, since they won't have their turret's/OB's?IP's and what have you (remember that the'll also be incredibly low on resources).
And that, my feloow gorges and skulks, is how the alien team defeats the hive lockdown turtle, quite easy if you ask me.
It might seem impossible for pubs, because it requires teamwork hax, but after 10~15 minutes of suiciding into their turtle, any alien player will listen to a player with a good plan.
I've seen it happen so many times. Aliens get their hives shot up while they destroy the marine turtle, aliens have no hives left (1 building) and a few minutes later all three hives are up again and the HA's are without a commander and base, peeing their pants, congratulating the Alien team on their wonderfull comeback as they die.
Only it's not a comeback, it's just the alien team realising that in some situations, strategy > action.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>TEH END!~</span>
Comments
when they will not move out the best thing to do is kill their rt (no rts = no more upgrades). as soon as the rt is down all rush. 0/0 HA is weak and they will fall ez if all rush.
fade's hit and run. than all rush in. fade first then onos, gorge and learks. gorge heal, learks umbra. this is a rush onos gore.
if they are in a hive its much harder to get them out. best way seems to be 2/3 learks 4/6 onos.
"you have to stop suiciding into their base and give them free RFK"
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, at this point, where I mention xenocide and how that can win entire games, this is where I stopped reading. Xeno happens to be very good, and assuming you're using Celerity and triggering early, NOTHING will kill you before you boom.
Same thing all over again, but I doubt it because he already spent his res on an HA Train
BTW your building targets are a bit flawed.
#1 Priority, MUST be killed first :
= Arms Lab
= Armory
- Phase Gates
= CC
= Obs
#2 Priority :
- Turret Factories
- IPs
- Proto Lab
Last Priority, can be left till later:
- Turrets / Siege Turrets
Now if you ask why I used a = for some of the structures, it's because they give a big advantage, CC being the most biggest threat. Armory second. Arms Lab and Obs are tied at third, but they become first priority IF they have gotten Lv 3 everything and MT, a very deadly combination that can cripple your attack.
Anyway, the whole point of the marine team is to go and kill the hives. If they don't go and kill the hives, the commander is just wasting his and everyone else's time.
Shouldn't that be a ban-able offense? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, the whole point of the marine team is to go and kill the hives. If they don't go and kill the hives, the commander is just wasting his and everyone else's time.
Shouldn't that be a ban-able offense? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not when there are an alien team of oni outside his base stopping them from getting out?
The armslab should be very far down on your attacking priorities. When you kill the arms lab, marines retain hier upgrade. the number 1 priority when attacking a base should be the phase gate, even if it is not active, it will become active by another one being completed. turrets and ips can wait.
Priority when attack an outpost should be
1 Phasegate (if it exists)
2 a couple of turrets to allow open a blind stop on the tf
3 tf
4 resnode
5 rest of the turrets
If you are attacking marine start when all the marines are out you should go for the phasegate first. after the phasegate;
2 some turrets, again, to open a blind spot on the TF
3 TF
4 (if 3.0) Observatory, else (if 2.0) IPs
5 (if 3.0) IPs, else (if 2.0) Observatory
6 armory
7 Commchair
8 Resnode, turrets, armslab and protolab
The reason for attacking the obs first in 3.0 will become clear to you if you have a decent commander (like Wither).
If you can't kill em, weaken em first
"you have to stop suiciding into their base and give them free RFK"
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, at this point, where I mention xenocide and how that can win entire games, this is where I stopped reading. Xeno happens to be very good, and assuming you're using Celerity and triggering early, NOTHING will kill you before you boom. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except for the fact that you cant use xenocide they are in a hive location and you need THREE hives to get xeno not TWO.
Except for the fact that you cant use xenocide they are in a hive location and you need THREE hives to get xeno not TWO.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except for the fact that you can use xenocide they are in ms he said also and you can get your three hives and punctuation is a good thing for long sentences as it helps break up a long line of tedium which will only cause the read to go out of teh breth while he are teh read ur postage omglolzorz.
Secondly, for the rest of us, if they're in a hive, they're easily moved, barring very very few cases where the hive has a quirk you can exploit.
As the original post said, they will be really low on res at this point, and it will take them time to build up a base full of turrets, so you actually have a good chance of taking out that base.
I was playin on the Bean.net server a few hours ago and a stalemate situation developed, we had 2 hives, sens and def, marines had relocated to bio as their main base about 20-30 mins into the game (so they had lvl 3/3 upgrades) And the res was 1v9
Now the marine comm turret oceaned biodome (we're talking beyond a "farm" and about 30-45 turrets at least 3-4 tfs enough to double the ping of the server) and no marines venturing out (much) 12v12 game
We had about 8 redempt onoses cos you know how hard bio is to rushand we couldnt do it, even on multiple tries with an organised team. Marines also had a few GLs, shotguns and the odd HMG
1)It is possible to break this turtle?
2)How?
The game ended when the admin changed the map to tanith cos he was "angry" (understatement) at the situation!
Looking for answers! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
/edit dont say stuff like "be better at the game" cos both sides were pretty decent - especially for a pub
Nice slow lifts to let the onii get shot before they even get to the bottom and anything less than an onos gets shread by the line of 10+ turrets at the bottom of each lift. That's without even including the marines with lvl 3 everything.
Oh yeah, forgot that part.
That just might be the coolest thing I've ever heard.
::punt::
::marine ducks::
::skulk splats against the wall::
That wouldn't help a biodome lockdown, but it would be better than charge, at least.
Some would say "don't put yourself in a losing position" to which the uneducated would say "omgzorz teh balance it is teh unbalanced, drop siegegorges kplzthxbbai"
Don't let them get in bio, and if they insist on laming it up beyond all belief, all you can really do is spore them silly, try and sneak some skulks in, and go right for the IPs in order to end the game rather quickly. This is a LOT faster than taking out all 4 tfs. Other things to do are to let the marines break out just long enough for them to be trapped, ALIVE, outside their base so you can rampage all over it in their absence.
Finally, don't pick SENSORY as a 1-2 chamber unless you've an idea of how to use it. Otherwise its gg as rines wipe the floor with your poorly operating team.
I know we have discussed this before, and I really don't want to revive that argument, but many people will disagree that controlling 90% of the map should be comparable to losing everything except a pawn and the king. Maybe the game is that way, but most people don't think it <i>should</i> be that way, and those people want the game changed so that it isn't that way.
I will agree that if you go sensory first you need to make sure this doesn't happen (get a sensory network up so they can't establish a base in any hive), but even with movement and defense it is pretty difficult to get them out.
So essentially what I'm saying is people really shouldn't put themselves in a position where the chances of losing are very very good. Letting a key piece of real estate fall into enemy hands is, to me, just as bad as rushing an onos with a knife. Sure, you can recover from it, perhaps even kill the onos, but if you die then there's little point complaining about losing by doing something reaaaaaaaaal silly.