Do You Care?
Dread
Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Why?</div> People die all over the world. I don't care, why should I? Why should I care if there's 5 or 6 billion people on this planet tomorrow? Why should I care if they died in piece or a violent death?
This is not teenage angst, make no mistake there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I would just like to know how other feel about this. Honestly, seriously, frankly, do you give a crap if people that are not connected to you in anyway die? Why? Give me a reason too.
This is not teenage angst, make no mistake there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I would just like to know how other feel about this. Honestly, seriously, frankly, do you give a crap if people that are not connected to you in anyway die? Why? Give me a reason too.
Comments
One might say that my entire life has been spent worrying about strangers and how they live and die. I find it completely alien to think otherwise.
that's disturbing
Well, at least those strangers were connected to you by the fact that you are of the same nationality. Not cuban/haiti though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> What I meant was that would it shake you if today 1 000 000 africans would die instead of 100 000?
This thinking pattern of mine started like this: Lots of people have died and always will die. Does it matte if they die now, week from now on or 60 years from now on?
Also, I would like to know WHY do you care about people who you will never meet, whos situation doesn't affect your life. Let's pretend that they could be in other galaxy, they affect you that little. Would you still care?
Well, if you believe this, I don't blame you. You'd be in the vast majority of those that do.
However, I'm one of the few people you'll ever find that hurts inside whenever I hear of someone dying for a reason that could have been prevented. If anyone knows the price of death, it's me. I've lost one too many myself. I guess it makes me sort of an expert on death.
The biggest place you would feel it is in a massive shift in the economy. Think about this: Joe Somebody having a bad day and coming to work cranky can cause a stockmarket crash. How well do you think the world economy can deal with 1 billion people falling off the planet?
Now, as far as natural death by old age or stupidity (*coughDarwincough*) goes, it's not really worth worrying about. The theft of life by disease or the actions of man, however, is tragic, if for no other reason than it can be stopped.
What type of a response is that? It means nothing to the discussion. He's talking about strangers... People he doesn't even know. Not family members or friends.
But why is that so tragic? No, I'm not trying to be annoying. I'm just pondering why it makes some people sad if 100 average Joes die when they get shot. They just cease to exist, or even better, go to heaven(not that I'm trying to add religion in to this discussion). Do you feel sorry that they've felt pain?
I'm trying to track down the motivation for people to care about people who don't affect their lives at all. Because if everyone truely don't give a damn about other people, it's funny to see people crying for something that they don't really care about. I guess it's just a polite custom then?
Then again, pretty much every shrink I've been sent to told me that I showed antisocial and sociopathic tendencies, so I guess that's to be expected.
I've lost friends and family I cared about to (preventable) death, and I can't say it's really changed my view. I care only when someone I care about dies; otherwise, it's just a waste of energy and emotion spent on someone who is meaningless to me. If it hurts someone I care about then yes, it does affect me in that I feel for my friend or associate, but the death in itself and the loss of the deceased does not affect me directly.
In a sense I do care... I think if I were to be specific, I tend to care more for small children and animals, the helpless if you will, especially those that have been abandoned, because I <i>have</i> been there. But to read or hear about them in the general hubbub doesn't affect me; I have to be there and see them, touch them, have them directly in my life. Otherwise, the "waste of energy/emotion" rule applies.
I can't really explain it very well, I guess, but that's how I feel.
1. The value or worth of life. There's a great quote from Clint Eastwood's character in "The Unforgiven" that goes something like--"Funny thing killing a man. You take away all he was and all he ever will be." So, each of us has contributed something to the lives of those around us. Sometimes those contributions are better than others. But, each of us also has the potential to contribute more in the future. Losing this potential is regretful and sad.
2. Character and Conscience. I heard someone describe one of these as "How you act when nobody else is looking." It's this will to be good and/or caring when we don't really need to be that defines us in our daily lives.
3. Personalization. The inevitable question "How would you feel if it was you?". If your loved ones were suddenly struck down in a freak accident, would it comfort you that people you've never met have offered support and comfort?
That's it for now. /me takes off Obi-Wan robe and heads off to make tea
Not sure I follow you here - my point was that even when they were not American's, I still cared enough to help them. And I volunteered for the Cuba operation directly, I didn't have to go to that one (although, arguably, I volunteered for Haiti too when I joined the USMC, as I wasn't drafted). I just wanted to go.
As for the why, I think I have found a rare time when I can add something after a Spooge statement and not have it be redundant. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I think that, as a whole, it's very normal and human and perhaps genetically programmed to care about the well-being of strangers. In fact, I think that not caring is the unnatural thing. From what we know of mankind's rise from Homo Erectus to Neanderthal to Cromagnon, part of society was banding together with strangers to fight the common enemy: nature. It stands to reason that this programming lingers on and affects us when we hear about the suffering of others in humanity's fight against eventual death from all sides. And as far as I'm concerned, to be civilized is to care about something besides your own tiresome self. I despise that sort of narcicissm (hence my hatred of teenagers).
I don't mean i'm happy when people die, i just don't feel sad. This is the way i see it:
Unless the people who died were nasty, i doubt they want other people feeling sad about their deaths. When (or... IF!) i die, i don't want people to be sad, i want people to just get on with life. If people laugh at my funeral, good for them (hence me choosing an Electric 6 song as my funeral march and writing... something to be read out at the thing).
I used to cry about loss all the time. Hell, i used to cry about THINKING of losing someone. I even cried when one of my friends (wasn't even a close friend) left my school and joined another one. Then my memory gets a bit hazy... then i turn into me, and i hardly ever cry now. But... sometimes, things just get to me. Like, this once, i got beat up (well, not beat up: Hit) by this gang of kids. I wasn't hurt or anything (i'm big they're small), but i cried. I cried because i wanted to know <b>why</b>. I'd done <b>nothing</b> to them at all.
That's the only thing i care about now. The helpless being hurt because some sick person gets off on hitting/tormenting people. Oh yeah, and when people are being hurt and they don't understand why (think of that scene with Duddits from Dreamcatcher the book, with the older kids picking on him. That made me cry too).
So yeah, i don't care. I agree with you, why should I?
anyway, I don't really "care" when people die of old age or disease. however, I do care when people die before they can fulfill their purpose in life (whatever that may be). This mostly pertains to unnatural deaths like murders. If someone had a bright future ahead of them and their life was cut off before it had a chance to do great things, yes, I do care about that.
I take it you don't agree with some people <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But seriously... if i went around feeling for everyone, i'd be dead from grief. Right now, there's at least one person dying. RIGHT NOW. Of starvation, burning, gunshots, explosions, old age, cancer. And another one, right now.
Yet i don't know about them. I don't care about them. Why should i care about them if they're bought to my attention? Plus a lot of people seem to be selective of who they care about.
With the WTC attacks, there were thousands of people (millions even) that suddenly discovered they cared about people. That's a lie. None of them did. I don't see thousands of people mourning when a car bomb goes off somewhere in the middle east, killing people, pregnant women, babies and toddlers. THAT is one thing that annoys me.
my observations come down to this, and i'm going to offend people here, but i don't mean it as an insult. This is how i view the world, and it prevents me from going insane at the sheer.... insanity of it:
No one cares. No one does, not really. Perhaps some people out there, some type of person that i've never met, <b>does</b> care, does give without thought, helps others in need.
People "care" because they're told to, or because there's some benefit in them for caring. If a friend suddenly announces that they're going on a fantastic holiday for 2 months, and they can't contact you while they're there, you're sad. You <b>care</b>. Why? Why should you care? Your friend is going on a fantastic holiday, a once in a lifetime event. You care because you'll miss their company. <b>YOU</b> will miss their company. Not because of anything else, but because you'll miss them. This applies to other things too. Such as a family member dying. You miss their presense. YOU miss their presense.
People "care" to fit in. If i walked out on to the street right now and screamed "I don't give a rats **** about the people who died in the WTC attacks", i'd be lynched. Why? These people haven't given a second thought about them once CNN and ITV News stopped broadcasting images of it (i'm in the UK). They do it because they feel they have a social obligation to care.
Of course there's exceptions to my rule. There always is. People will do irrational things to save someone they care about, up to the point of sacrificing their own life. But, in my own experiences, i've found these people to be far and few between.
Wow... reading through all that, i sound like a horrible person. But that's how i feel. And no, i don't apply rules to other people and forget them on myself. When i die, you can dance on my grave, i don't care. When my mom dies, you can dance on her grave too. Why should i care? it is my belief that she can't care, so why should i? If anything, i'd hit you because your dancing annoys me (heh).
Sigh... i'm actually a nice person once you get to know me.
I don't think Dread is asking if you care about every single solitary event ever. That applies pretty often to my wife - she just cannot bear the thought of people and animals suffering. That makes her both pretty sensitive (sometimes too sensitive), but also very human and humane. She does what she can to help people through donations and such, and tries not to bury her head in the sand. I think that Dread meant, 'do you care, <b>ever</b>'. It's natural not to care all the time, as that can be debilitating. But to never care, basically gives a textbook description of a sociopath, who cannot comprehend human suffering or feel any negative emotions over it. It is a mental illness to be that way to that degree.
I'm not stupid enough to say i won't cry when my mom dies, or when my dad dies. Of course i will. The thing is, although i may miss them being there (selfish reasons again), i won't torment myself by thinking of them all the time. I will know they're dead, and i will know there's nothing i can do about it.
However... if i ever took a life, i would kill myself. I stepped on a mouse once, i felt the bones crushing under my foot. I felt horrible for days, and i can still feel and hear the crushing of it. I'm scared of spiders, yet i won't kill one, because i don't see why i should. It's got a right to life, just as i do. If someone killed me just because they didn't like me (and God knows, i'd be dead a thousand times by now), i wouldn't be pleased.
Maybe this means i care. I don't know any more. I've never really thought about this for as long as i have done since i read this post. When i see news reports or something about someone dying, or thousands of people dying, they're just words. I don't care. Yet i've just demonstrated that i <b>do</b> care.
Man... i need a pyschiatrist.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>* Note that I do not mean that as an insult, merely as an observation</span>
Because life is precious. That's not to say I start crying whenever I see a trampled daisy and moan about what it could have been or whatever, but I feel it's a shame to lose something as valuable as life.
Hey, I care if it's somehow connected to me. My friend dies, of course I care. A finn dies, I care, he's my fellow citizen. 3000 americans die, I care because it does affect the economy somehow(and what people and press talks about). Not that I feel bad for that one finn or those 3000 americans. Maybe if I see pictures or read very accurate article on the sufferings of those who died. However, I don't much care about people who don't affect my life almost in anyway. Only if I'm forced in contact with these humans somehow, I start to care - more or less - about them.
So I don't care just because they are of the same race and they die. I care only if it concerns me somehow. Why is this? My theory doesn't involve me being a total loony, but world has just become too big. There's so many people dying in so many places, so far away and in so many ways that it doesn't concern me. I can't just feel it anymore. Maybe it's because nature has been conquered and it's no more humans main enemy. Man is wolf to man now, again. Overpopulation in many areas is maybe the cause for my inhumane behaviour. People must die, so that other people can live, hence I don't care if people die. Probably when overpopulation isn't problem anymore, I start caring again. Then it DOES matter if people live or die. Now we have kind of surplus of humans. There's plenty of people to waste. This might sound very cruel but on the big scale(1000*1 000 000 have died and will die), couple of thousand or million deaths doesn't seem so bad or like it matters.
Oh and MonsE, don't worry, we still keep on caring about our countries(so your retirement is secured). We just don't give a damn about other countries/people who don't concern us.
/me goes to sl33p.
Yeah, teenagers. We're lazy too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The image I get from a lot of people posting here is that they would just as soon step over someone lying bleeding in the gutter as help him up. Simply because they do not know them.
You don't have to know someone to care about them. Maybe I am odd and feel some sort of sense of duty but if someone genuinely needs help I will offer it to them.
Heaven help me if I ever need help from some of you.
Somehow I found this quote appropriate in a related sort of way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
--John Stuart Mill
If somebody I have never met dies, say in an eathquake or in a terrorist activity such as 9/11, I do not care about them, it is too late. I care (feel sorry for) the family and freinds that they left behind. If I meet someone who had co-workers who died in 9/11, I would express my sympathy for them, but I do not feel sorry for the people who died.
I personally, for the most part, do not believe death is final. If someone is prepared or knows he or she is going to die or could die (for the most part) - I do not fell sad for their deaths; what I would feel sad about was if they suffered, or through their deaths they caused suffering.
But if someone is stopped short of fullfilling their "purpose", by someone, then yes I do feel for them, but it's not really a feeling for the one in question; he or she will have "moved on"; a new life or the afterlife; it is the people that miss him/her that I care most about, as they continue to suffer while he/she is now in a new life (or afterlife).
[ok i give up trying to redo this, I'm just going to post the nubby thing >_<]
But the 42 people in russia that died in a Chechnyian(sp) attack on a train? I am sorry for their families, I pray for thier comfort, but I don't feel an emotional attachment to people I will never know.
What I do, however, is choose to care about people in general, and choose to help them whenever I see a need. I believe my planned career (Christian counseling, followed by a long hard look at missionary work) reflects that.
The reason I care is simple. These people have a soul and real needs. The mere fact that they exist is a miracle from God, and the future of their soul is uncertain, and I have the power to help them.
To not want to minister to their needs, physical, emotional, and spiritual would be barbaric of me.
On a social/ethical level, it breaks my heart to know that I've lucked into a life of incredible privlege, even though I'm only 'middle class'. I'm still worlds better then most of the world. I feel guilty for that. I feel bad thinking about the trouble for remote peoples. I'd like to help them, but at the same time, I don't really have the financial means. Thats just an excuse, of course. I can help in my own small way. I think I'm going to join my school's service group.
On another level, life is still complex enough where, no matter how many Africans starve or Iraqis (or even US troops) get killed, they are nothing more then a number to me. Its not that I don't care; If I reflect on those numbers, I get the feeling described above. The problem is, I don't reflect on it. I've become very much apart of the 'ME' generation. :-/ Its not a nice feeling.
Thats not to say I've ignored those in need. I've volunteered, I'm an Eagle Scout. I just don't do as much as I COULD, and should.
Also, Monse: I don't want to pay for your retirment. Keep that in mind when saving. :-P
I'm 19 years old, 6'2" and weigh a whopping 135 pounds! I reserve the right to be anorexic! Now if you'll excuse me I have to go consume 2 pounds of bacon to compensate for my 60/90 blood pressure. (All those numbers are real)
Anyway to make a semi-valid point (or at least make you believe I have), I'm sorta with Jammer on this one. Though I think 'killing' I'm more emotionally attatched to then just 'dying'. I don't donate to help alleviate AIDs suffering in Africa, or to feed a starving Ethiopian. I know that no matter what I do they'll keep spreading AIDs, and even if it is controlled, I'd give it 20 years until another epidemic breaks out, just deadlier (Imagine a mutant form of airborne Ebola, a strain of which does exist, but only kills monkeys. That's 2% genetic difference from a superplague. GG Africa). I know that feeding one kid doesn't help anything: He'll just starve to death another day, or perhaps he'll be shot by a warlord as they mow down civilians with Russian weapons as they gather around a food truck. It's a fact that if you produce enough food for 5 billion people, there will eventually be 6 billion people in the world. It just keeps growing.
but if everybody in the developed world fed "just one kid" in the LEDCs (3rd world) it would make a very big difference. It is that sort of attitude that means these people starve, the whole "oh, my £2 won't make any difference." Humanity is lacking the bigger picture. yes, your £2 will feed 1 kid for a week, only to have him starve the next, but if everybody gave £2. The world would be a much batter place if we all just took a step back from it, and looked at the whole thing rather than just our bank balances.