Onos New Hps

Barneys_SoulBarneys_Soul Join Date: 2003-08-18 Member: 19896Members
<div class="IPBDescription">unbalanced o_O</div> te new oni hps (900hps,500ap), isnt that a bit unbalanced?? shotys only do bout 100 damage a shot and te onos can just stomp a group or arines with shotys and even then its probebly bout 10 hits to kil it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> hmg and lmg r only 24/13 at lv3 2 D:
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Comments

  • WarriorWarrior Join Date: 2003-02-16 Member: 13624Members
    Its almost just right. Before onos died to a single lmger. Now it takes team work to kill an onos unless u have an hmg and distance, or a jp. A lvl 3 shotgun does some 200 or so dmg. A single shotgun should not be able to kill a onos. 10 res shotgun <100 res onos. the hp/armor are almost to a balanced state.
  • WanziWanzi Join Date: 2003-09-30 Member: 21329Members, Constellation
    edited December 2003
    The addition of hand grenades will probably help counter onoses, the possibility of kamikaze devours, and also being able to have a bunch of players all toss grenades at the same time, i'm sure 6-8 grenades plus lmg/hmg fire will be enough to easily take down an onos.
  • SmikiesSmikies Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18470Members
    edited December 2003
    actaully, shotties do 170 a shot, if all pellats hit and its not upgraded.. but it sounds right to me, since well.... they r gigantic, lol
    But the key thing to take out an onos is like anything else: TEAMWORK
  • WarriorWarrior Join Date: 2003-02-16 Member: 13624Members
    nade kills are very rare. THey only happen by luck. They have a 4 second timer, which gives time for the onos to run away.
  • MachiavelliMachiavelli Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18468Members
    The new life totals for the onos are fine. Before the onii were extremely weak because nearly 100% of all rounds fired at them would hit (due to the fixed hit boxes). Now that the onos is a tank again....
  • WanziWanzi Join Date: 2003-09-30 Member: 21329Members, Constellation
    edited December 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Warrior+Dec 8 2003, 06:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Warrior @ Dec 8 2003, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->nade kills are very  rare.  THey only happen by luck.  They have a 4 second timer, which gives time for the onos to run away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But an onos usually spends at least 4 seconds in a room when attacking (not using devour, see below), as soon as the onos is spotted, an alert is sent to the team, and they can grenade the onos and/or the exits of the room, so there is no place for the onos to go. Chances are a few of the grenades are going to drop the onos health enough for lmg and hmg fire to pick it off as it runs away, if nothing else, the grenades would work as a distraction while machine guns take it out.

    Since a lot of onoses go for cheap devour kills, throw grenades at the exit, and then shoot at it, it will have most of it's health eaten away by lmg or hmg, and the grenades will catch it as it runs out of the room.
    It may or may not work, but we'll see when 3.0 arrives.
  • BallistoBallisto Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
    doubt it... not too many ppl do it w gls. i usually fire two grenades at the exit then get two direct his on the onos.
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    Not only is 900 not too powerful (in regular NS) but it's still a little too weak for the cost. Talesin did the math a while ago, and to make the new Onos (with fixed hitboxes) as viable as the old Onos, it'd need 2000hp/1000ar. Or some kind of locational damage system. But since Flayra wants to avoid locational damage, we need to either up the HP or lower the damage guns deal to it (half damage when struck by bullets?)

    In combat, on the other hand, Onos are FAR too strong, too early, and something needs to be done about that... soon. And I'm sure it will.
  • DiabolusCaligoDiabolusCaligo Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20585Members, Constellation
    It's getting there... I like it. Maybe slightly more... but this makes carapace more viable...
  • BobbybirdtreeBobbybirdtree Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23787Members
    I think onos sucks for 100 res. It is slow(unless upgraded) and easy to kill with 3 rines with the crapiest weapons. It is onos. It is supposed to own all. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Bobbybirdtree+Dec 8 2003, 10:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bobbybirdtree @ Dec 8 2003, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think onos sucks for 100 res. It is slow(unless upgraded) and easy to kill with 3 rines with the crapiest weapons. It is onos. It is supposed to own all. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not really, we were talking about the 3.0b Onos not 2.xx Onos.

    As of now, I think the Onos is just right from what I hear. In fact I think it lives up to its name already.
  • ShazbotShazbot Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14328Members
    They should just even out the ono's HP at 1,000hp and give the combat Onos less health. Possibly give the combat onos a slightly different model to distinguish the two and slightly explain the hp change...
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    edited December 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Barney's Soul+Dec 8 2003, 05:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Barney's Soul @ Dec 8 2003, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> te new oni hps (900hps,500ap), isnt that a bit unbalanced?? shotys only do bout 100 damage a shot and te onos can just stomp a group or arines with shotys and even then its probebly bout 10 hits to kil it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> hmg and lmg r only 24/13 at lv3 2 D: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    read the other updates. please. for the love of god.

    Flay and the devs have said that they fixed ALL the hitboxes of the player models. if you hit a onos on it's side on the half thats near it's arse, it'll take damage. if you hit it's head, it'll take damage. if you hit its left-rear leg <i>it'll take damage</i>. skulk, gorge, and lerk hitboxes have also been fixed; the skulk's face will take damage; the gorge is just a plain ol' target as usual; and the lerk is only hittable on it's "skeleton" and not it's flesh-streched-to-make-wings.

    the fade has also been fixed; itll now take damage to hit's head (but still no "headshot" locational like damage!) and some other parts it wasn't being hit on, as well as the marines themselves; you can shoot between their legs if you're perpindicular to em', over their shoulder REALLY close to their head, and past anywhere where you might not've been able to shoot past previously.


    Taking into consideration the onos's size AND the damage of the marine's weapons the onos NEEDS the 900hp and whatever armor it has.

    -edit- they just need to make the NS:C onos come out later, honestly.
  • HuntyHunty Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
    Hmm if the onos is regen,that means the onos can take about...im going by the armor extends HP life thingy so it might be exactly accurate.....about....1900 damage.

    Since HMGs got nerfed back to 1.04 status,18 damage per shot,we are looking at 23 damage at level 3.At the ROF of 600 RPM,that means 230 damage,assuming all shots hit,in 1 second of HMG fire.

    That means you need,im assuming here,6 marines with level 3 weapons and HMGs,about....slightly 1.5 seconds to kill the onos,assuming all shots hit,the onos is stupid and doesnt stomp/2HL,and the onos doesnt try to ambush the marines and instead,run down a long corridor to reach the marines.Also assuming all 6 marines arent shooting at the onos's backup(wait...the onos brought backup right?hes not trying to go 6 vs 1 by himself right?).

    Im not sure how it will turn out.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Talesin did the math a while ago, and to make the new Onos (with fixed hitboxes) as viable as the old Onos, it'd need 2000hp/1000ar<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How did he arrive to that conclusion? ~4 times larger hitable area on the screen does not mean ~4 times more hits unless marines just shoot at random in all direction. Possibly one could speculate that it means 4 times less misses(IE if people used to hit 60 percent of the time before, now they hit 90%) but that's probably not correct either.
  • deaincaelodeaincaelo Join Date: 2003-09-11 Member: 20739Members
    1 onos is 106 res/3 fully upgraded HA 120 res

    should only be a slight advantage for the 3 HA

    so, it should take at least 3 marines to take down an onos. or 6 if you 'tech down' the marines sounds right.

    the only exception is combat, cause the res sytem works different.
  • ZelZel Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12861Members
  • WinterWinter Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20042Members
    Oh this is wonderful for me! Not only was it hard as hell for people to kill me as Onos before (becuase I'm an exceptional 2-Hive onos) but now they'll NEVER be able to kill me. MUWAHHAHAHAHAAAA.
  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Members
    edited December 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Dec 9 2003, 06:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Dec 9 2003, 06:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> see my sig.  thx. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    LOL

    anyway,

    900/500 = 1900 damage capacity

    l3 shotgun = 220 per shot

    onos regen = 81 per tick

    That's going to take 3 marines to each hit with 4 shotgun shots to take down, (2640 dmg should be enough to get past a few pellets missing and regen) which seems about right IMO, although 2 onos at once seem like they will be a definite game over for the marines.

    However, an umbraed onos is going to be pretty scary, since it regenerates more than 1 shotty blast in damage per shot (if you third the damage, although I am aware that this is not how it works and umbra functions probabilistically).

    Isn't there a bit of a huge gap between the fade and onos now, though? Mr. fade needs to either be a better straight-up fighter or a better sneaky unit, ATM it's a bit of a bastardisation, and for 60 res isn't seeming like a good deal since it's both more expensive and weaker (less blink, hitboxes) than in 2.01
  • ZdrozZZdrozZ Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12158Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Dec 9 2003, 03:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Dec 9 2003, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's going to take 3 marines to each hit with 4 shotgun shots to take down, (2640 dmg should be enough to get past a few pellets missing and regen) which seems about right IMO, although 2 onos at once seem like they will be a definite game over for the marines.
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If the marines use only shotguns... just drop a HMG and the Oni die. With a HMG it's still (too?) easy to kill an onos IMHO. (I'm talking about NS:Classic, we all know the problems in Combat...)
    But at least you can play onos again (it was worthless before 3.0b).
  • uranium_235uranium_235 Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
    Shotguns should suck against an onos. I dunno about you but it's not often people go safari hunting with a short-ranged low-penetration weapon.
  • WinterWinter Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20042Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ZdrozZ+Dec 9 2003, 03:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZdrozZ @ Dec 9 2003, 03:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Dec 9 2003, 03:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Dec 9 2003, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's going to take 3 marines to each hit with 4 shotgun shots to take down, (2640 dmg should be enough to get past a few pellets missing and regen) which seems about right IMO, although 2 onos at once seem like they will be a definite game over for the marines.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If the marines use only shotguns... just drop a HMG and the Oni die. With a HMG it's still (too?) easy to kill an onos IMHO. (I'm talking about NS:Classic, we all know the problems in Combat...)
    But at least you can play onos again (it was worthless before 3.0b). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Really now? That weird because pretty much every time I onos (provided that we still have at least two hives) I'm unstoppable (nearly, that is) and I always am at the top of the list in kills. Worthless? I think not. If I can clear the way for a band of skulks to chomp a handful of HA's and then destroy every rine rt on the map before they can respond, I'm pretty sure I've done my part. Onos is a huge help in teh right hands. Know when to run away and heal. Noobs hate onos because they think that means they're unstoppable and invincible, and then they die and get ****. By the time I die (IF i die) as onos, I usually have 100 res already anyhow.
  • WasianWasian Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16268Members, Constellation
    Stop trying to go by the numbers, and listen to people who have experienced the new onos first hand. It's really good as it is, almost perfect I dare say. But it's far too easy to get in combat. You can onos with no upgrades at level four and a marine can have a level one hmg at four. But most people don't rush pure weapons due to needing at least one armor to combat focus or getting mines. If an alien can go onos before there are at least three shotguns, then the game is likely over. Delay the combat onos a little, and all will be well.
  • JoltGrisJoltGris Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11143Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Barney's Soul+Dec 8 2003, 07:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Barney's Soul @ Dec 8 2003, 07:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> te new oni hps (900hps,500ap), isnt that a bit unbalanced?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We will see after it's tested
  • ApocalipsusApocalipsus Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21838Members
    OMG i think the new hp/ar of onus is too much. although i havnt test it yet and i may be wrong, i mean we need at least 6 rines to kill him(thats what i read) but it very rare to see a single onus attackign the usually come with some guard(like a fade or even some skulks or even another onus).
    Now this exemple is with a single onus attacking:Lets get reallistic a onus with 2 hives have stomp. And befeore the rines realizethere is a onus walkign aroud there the onus alredy killed some marines in his quest to the marine base <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> . Then the marines start walking in team and there are 6 rines shoting at onus a stomp paralizes at least 2, one of him will be devoured, the other will be hit by the first attack(cant remember the name) when the 2 rines are dead the onus runs away to heal itself now even if the rines go after him he will be able to kill at least one more (making a 6 rines team reduced to 3 in public servers normaly its 7vs 7 this makes the marine team really vulnerable (this is assuming there is only a onus against the marines)after the onus is dead the alien(how was a onus) probably already has enough res to gestate again to another onus making a living hell to the marines.

    But let me say again i havnt played vs 3.0 so i cant know if it is balanced or not it just my opion.
  • 2of12B0RG2of12B0RG Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11285Members
    edited December 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Apocalipsus+Dec 9 2003, 08:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apocalipsus @ Dec 9 2003, 08:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OMG i think the new hp/ar of onus is too much. although i havnt test it yet and i may be wrong, i mean we need at least 6 rines to kill him(thats what i read) but it very rare to see a single onus attackign the usually come with some guard(like a fade or even some skulks or even another onus).
    Now this exemple is with a single onus attacking:Lets get reallistic a onus with 2 hives have stomp. And befeore the rines realizethere is a onus walkign aroud there the onus alredy killed some marines in his quest to the marine base  <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> . Then the marines start walking in team and there are 6 rines shoting at onus a stomp paralizes at least 2, one of him will be devoured, the other will be hit by the first attack(cant remember the name) when the 2 rines are dead the onus runs away to heal itself now even if the rines go after him he will be able to kill at least one more (making a 6 rines team reduced to 3 in public servers normaly its 7vs 7 this makes the marine team really vulnerable (this is assuming there is only a onus against the marines)after the onus is dead the alien(how was a onus) probably already has enough res to gestate again to another onus making a living hell to the marines.

    But let me say again i havnt played vs 3.0 so i cant know if it is balanced or not it just my opion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hey do you know a guy named smart bomb?

    <!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Dec 9 2003, 04:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Dec 9 2003, 04:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Shotguns should suck against an onos. I dunno about you but it's not often people go safari hunting with a short-ranged low-penetration weapon. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lol that makes me think about that british dork from Animal Planet-

    [BRITISH ACCENT] As we part the tall grass, we encounter a male adult Onos in his natural habitat. Be quiet, we wouldn't want to upset him. What is that noise we hear? *PLOP* Ohhhhh.... we have just witnessed the Onos digesting his favorite food, a TSA soldier. Looks like that one had a Shotgun and Heavy Armor. That's gonna set the commander back a few res..... [/BRITISH ACCENT]
  • hopetodiehopetodie Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24134Members
    What were they thinking...
  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Talesin did the math a while ago, and to make the new Onos (with fixed hitboxes) as viable as the old Onos, it'd need 2000hp/1000ar. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think when talesin gave these numbers i think he was referring to the 1.04 onos which was restricted to 3 hives. I may be wrong but im pretty sure it was for 1.04 onos.

    - RD
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--hopetodie+Dec 9 2003, 10:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hopetodie @ Dec 9 2003, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What were they thinking... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think I've heard far too much already....

    If you haven't experienced the changes, or have any info from the inside playtesters, don't speculate. It's already getting on my nerves as people start going 'OMG handgrenades!!!111' or 'Onos is teh overpowared!!!'

    Please if you really don't know how it is then don't post about it :/ Or you can just ask the playtesters....
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    edited December 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Roger Dodger+Dec 9 2003, 03:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roger Dodger @ Dec 9 2003, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Talesin did the math a while ago, and to make the new Onos (with fixed hitboxes) as viable as the old Onos, it'd need 2000hp/1000ar. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think when talesin gave these numbers i think he was referring to the 1.04 onos which was restricted to 3 hives. I may be wrong but im pretty sure it was for 1.04 onos.

    - RD <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I spent about an hour looking for the old thread, and I think it's been devoured by the forum. I've found NUMEROUS references to it, but not the original calculations. Let me just say though, that the calculations were based on how long the onos should survive when facing x number of marines based on its cost, and not in comparison to 1.0 or 2.0 directly.

    The calculations were to reflect that a single marine with ANY weapon should not be able to take down an onos. Not with an HMG, not with a Shottie, not with a GL, and ESSPECIALLY not with an LMG. And that two marines should have serious problems even with an HMG.

    You need to remember, of course, that having a 4x hitbox doesn't mean it needs 4x hp... because a 4x hitbox means that even at range, nearly EVERY ROUND YOU FIRE WILL HIT. Shotguns land every slug at medium range, and a fair portion of slugs at long range. HMGs and LMGs never miss. GLs detonate on impact much more frequently than before. This is every playtesters experience. You see an Onos, you point in it's general direction, you pull the trigger and hold it down, and if it's not directly goring you, it'll die in a few seconds.
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