George W. Bush For Anyone Who Lives In Us
The_Thing
Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13993Members
Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13993Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The good, The bad, The ugly</div> I thought George W. Bush was a decent President until he started the whole Iraq conflict. His stupidity just makes me sick now, he is losing America some big bucks and with him around i dont think America is gonna go anywhere. Well that's for the ugly and bad part.
Just list what you think about George Bush.
Just list what you think about George Bush.
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Comments
Honestly, the only good decision he's made is in regards to his PR crew. Honestly, they're probably the best I've seen, feeding pap to please the ignorant masses on even a subconscious level... while being insulting to those with the brains to recognize relational correspondence and neurolingustic programming.. when he can get the words out without mangling them like a rabid baboon with a three-year-old. Employing fear tactics (the first resort of a wannabe fascist state) to keep the dull-witted and apathetic in line, while attempting to shuttle any evidence against him behind the curtains.
He's legally a deserter in the US Air Force (he never completed his fighter training, in a jet that was due to be decomissioned shortly anyway), a former cocaine addict, still has familial business ownings with the Bin Ladens, was involved in the whole Enron sh**storm... and finally, is the only President I know of in US history who ran solely on a platform of 'I F**K MY WIFE!'.
In short, I feel he needs to be impeached. The only thing that worries me is that Cheney would then be in office... a card-carrying member of an America First group, which believes the USA has manifest destiny to preside over the rest of the world. If ever there was a time to fly the flag upside down, this has been it.
ANYBODY BUT BUSH: 2004!
Just list what you think about George Bush. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. Instead of blowing up third world countries and adding to the deficet, why can't we develop a renewable engery source so we wont NEED the middle east. YEEESH
While I agree with most of Talesin's post, I don't dislike him to quite the same degree as Tal apparently does. If you were to ask me <i>why</i> I'm more neutral, I can really only come up with one reason: I sort of pity him.
He's in a situation that few people can handle
He got this position without clearly showing he was capable of doing it, even during a peacetime scenario [edit]At least it was a close enough election that he didn't clearly show he was the better choice of person for the job, I considered the election to be choosing between the lesser of two evils[/edit]
And finally, when you appear <i>that darn immature</i> in public, it just makes me wonder whether it <i>hurts</i> to look that stupid.
This cannot be a debate over just the problems, you're being short sighted if you choose to buy into believing that Bush is just a dope that does stupid things all day in the White House.
We need to be more pragmatic than that.
The whole Iraq situation has been a can of worms for the last three presidents. Clinton knew there was a problem too, I believe he ordered surgical strikes in Iraq. The whole Iraq thing is a tricky situation, it's..to be blunt, stupid to just criticize him on that, yes, he could have handeled it better, yes he could have tried to be more diplomatic, but you can't completely attack solely on Iraq, the situation wasn't simple, and there cannot be any debate that it wasn't better than other options even if it wasn't the best.
I think people are to willing to buy into nonsense about how stupid Bush is (/me glances at Talesin) it's ridiculous to fall into party politics, which is EXACTLY what this is. This is all partisan and party politics, other parties are trying to engineer stories to sound absolutely evil even if it's not.
Talesin, what you need to understand is that in regards to social programs many conservatives in a competetive business policies in which the best and most competitive company will be the best for citizens rather than poorly run inefficient government programs. If you can break it open, it's good for companies, and people who need medication or what it may be, gets products that are cheaper, and better. If commercialize things like medication and things for the disabled you have a growth of competitive businesses which provides more jobs. Or.. we could just have higher taxes and terrible social program which poorly pays it's employees and is about as efficient as a dead person.
I'm not agreeing one hundred percent with Bush, I believe he could have handeled it much better, but I think he was the better president at the time, rather than Gore for the job.
As the terror situation, 9/11 should be prevalent in policies. Honestly, you're insinuating that by the same standards, we should have just shrugged off Pearl Harbor, forgotten about Japan and stop spreading "propaganda and scare tactics" about how Japan is at war with us.
The first problem most people have with Bush is that before he even got into office they believe he is a moron, who will never do any good. Before he did anything, he was a "puppet" even though there's no information to even back that up, but by all means, why not say it anyways, surely someone who hates Bush anyways because he's conservative will be happy to believe whatever any negative thing someone says about him.
It's the fact that his plans are so <i>unclear</i> to the general public.
Talesin makes a good point that Bush's PR team works like a well-oiled machine. But either I'm reading Slashdot too much instead of regular news, or these PR people haven't given us what I consider to be a satisfactorily clear plan on such things as our Iraq "winning"/leaving conditions and how we will handle UN relationships in the future.
Sadly, there are many Democratic nominee's running (what was the last count, 10?), and none of them is really leading. If Gore had decided to run, he most definately would win the presidency.
As to thinking about the suffering of the Iraqi people... That's just wrong. All throughout the war our forces did their best not to hit civilian targets. They tried to keep the infrastructure intact. After the war, the majority of Iraq is going through some amazing reconstruction. Are things in Iraq worse off than they were before the war? Yes... But are they getting better? Definately. Many Iraqis actually believe that things will continue to improve. They believe we are the better of two evils ( i.e. Saddam's regime ).
Things do not happen at the push of a button though. For some odd, and I'm sorry to say, extremely stupid reason... Many people continue to think the reconstruction of Iraq should happen practically at the push of a button... Things never happen like that. Any reasonable person would realize this. Setting up a totally new government is not an easy thing to do. Do it hastily and things go wrong... Take too long and things go wrong... Do it right and you could have another Japan or Germany on our hands. Both of which took years to rebuild. Iraq will not take as long as there was not as extensive of bombing... But it will not happen over night. Its only been 6 months. How can anyone attempt to judge progress on the rebuilding of a nation... Or the building of a practically new nation after only 6 months?
I suggest you pick up the November 10th issue of Times ( unfortunately it has a nice big picture of Russell Crowe on the cover ). It has an interesting article on the reconstruction efforts within Iraq. Amazingly... It actually talks about much of the good that is happening. Something that gets far less news than it should. The loss of lives of American soldiers is indeed tragic... But that does not mean that is all that is important about Iraq. That does not mean the good that is being done does not deserve to be reported. It does not mean that we are losing any war. Do people feel that our soldiers are only being attacked and not actually retaliating or getting those responsible? If you do... Think again. Its only that our forces judiciously apply force... Which means there's often no big explosions... Thus little to no news reported about it.
Bush may not be the best President... But that's inmaterial. I definately agree with Sirus that he's better than Gore would be. So what if he doesn't pander to the wishes of the rest of the world. The majority of the world is just jealous of our success. It is really that simple. We are a sovereign nation. We will do what we believe is in the best interest of our nation. It is the same thing every other nation does. No nation is ever truly altruistic.
I don't remember as many people complaining about the Kosovo conflict. It as an "illegal" war. It did not have UN approval. Russia and China promised to veto any such resolutions that made it to the security council. Kosovo wasn't even a conflict that threatened anyone else in the region. It was an internal problem. Mass genocide is definately a tragedy... But it was not a threat to anyone else in the world. Iraq was a far bigger threat... Regardless if they were imminent or not ( Bush NEVER said Iraq was an imminent threat ). In this regard... How was Iraq different than Kosovo?
<img src='http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_dummies.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I dislike Bush. A lot. I think he has a weak domestic policy, I don't think he's qualified to command the U.S. armed forces and I don't think that his casual approach to international politics is a good one.
9/11 made Bush. That's not saying too much, as tragedy always makes presidents look presidential. The Cuban Missile Crisis made JFK look good, the first Gulf War made Bush Sr. look good, Oklahoma City made Clinton look good and 9/11 made Bush look good. Prior to that, Bush was a mediocre president. There was no great cause or conflict. Some guys fly a 767 into the WTC and boom, instant war. Who needs a War on Drugs when you can have a War on Terror? Hell, everybody hates terror. Even the guy shooting up in the alley hates it.
Bush's poll numbers were starting to slip a year after 9/11. So what do we do? Find another enemy. Hell, let's go after Iraq. It's been the U.S. whipping boy for a decade, so it's not going to put up too much of a fight. Clinton attacked Iraq for no good reason too. Remember Operation Desert Fox? Yeah, neither do I. It was a one week deal during the Monica thing. Everybody went, "Oh! Wag the dog! Ha ha! Now back to the oral sex." Now the U.S. military is **** deep in the Iraqi desert and getting bombed almost daily. The amount of money it will take to make Iraq a viable oil producer is going to be huge. Meanwhile, Bush is racking up a massive debt on a scenario that won't come to fruition for at least a decade, if ever.
Spidermonky,
Honestly, all people are stupid. It's not an American phenomenon. I honestly think that if it had been Clinton running Gulf War II, most Europeans would have gone along with it. Much of the "anti-Americanism" I see coming out of Europe is anti-Bushism. I'm sure that if your average Englishman, Frenchman, German or Fin (Is that the proper descriptor for somebody from Finland?) were exposed to a slick media campaign, they'd start to buy it too.
Honestly, all people are stupid. It's not an American phenomenon. I honestly think that if it had been Clinton running Gulf War II, most Europeans would have gone along with it. Much of the "anti-Americanism" I see coming out of Europe is anti-Bushism. I'm sure that if your average Englishman, Frenchman, German or Fin (Is that the proper descriptor for somebody from Finland?) were exposed to a slick media campaign, they'd start to buy it too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, i really have no faith in the human race, we are doomed through stupidity as i see it. Yet americans are a special case, they cling to this ideas of patriotism more than anything, you wave an american flag at them, tell them rubbish about hope liberty and justice, and theyve turned into mush which you can mold. The media is mostly responsible for this, and this is something that is encrouching on to australia, which is something i really dont want to see. My dad is in europe 50% of the time, after viewing the iraq war coverage in europe and in aus he asked "is this the same war?", really, media subjectibility is a major cause of public opinions. But luckily the difference is, australians dont buy it, but americans do.
<img src='http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_dummies.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Current United States=1984.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Finn
n.
A native or inhabitant of Finland.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I (mostly) agree with Sirus. The situation is much more complex than most people seem to think. I've usually refrained from commenting Bush, and especially Gulf War II, because I honestly believe I do not know enough to say anything worthwhile.
bingo
bingo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have to disagree there.
I vision pictures of our heads dug in the ground.
I generally just disagree with him
I vision pictures of our heads dug in the ground. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Atleast we wouldn't have a massive hole in our collective pockets.
Current United States=1984. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, stop it with your rebel anti-governemtn SOAD Anti-Utopian ****. It is nothing like 1984.
Oh yes. The world is always right! And do not say the whole world either. They are quite a few nations that back up the US. I mean... Isn't Britain a major world player too? Others may not give their public support, but its what they wanted done in the end ( e.g. a number of mid-east countries ). Then others just do not want to go along with the US simply because it is the US.
So do you disagree with the actions taken in Kosovo? You better. Because we did not have UN approval for that either.
It does not matter why the Iraq war has happened. It does not matter if it is a war for oil. It does not matter if it is a War for GWB to get off of. What matters is that a nation is now free. It is free to setup its own form of democracy. Its people are free to speak their minds. It is free to live without fear from the government. They are free. End of story.
I wish we could do to all the other dictatorships that which we have done to Iraq; but that's not practical.
I have said enough.
So do you disagree with the actions taken in Kosovo? You better. Because we did not have UN approval for that either.**
It does not matter why the Iraq war has happened. It does not matter if it is a war for oil. It does not matter if it is a War for GWB to get off of. What matters is that a nation is now free. It is free to setup its own form of democracy. Its people are free to speak their minds. It is free to live without fear from the government. They are free. End of story.***
I wish we could do to all the other dictatorships that which we have done to Iraq; but that's not practical.**** <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Bitain is quite big; it has about 60 milion inhabitants: that's 1 % of the total world population! Yes, you surely can say that people want you to do something, even if they say otherwise. You are totally right on that one.
**Well, yea. The actions taken were inadequate and unproportional.
***No. There is no democratic government, the US occupation force has outlawd several demonstrations. So free to speak their minds? I think not. Furthermore, the curtrent situation in Iraq is miserable; about a third of the population is living on food aid.
****I surely hope that dictatorships will be removed, but not in the same way as Saddam. Plus, bringing democracy is not the same as just removing the dictator.
I have said enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if somebody thinks Bush is the best qualified to lead America, they're anti-American?
People are entitled to their opinions. That statement is the same kind of crap that people were spewing right before Gulf War II. "Real Americans support the President." Or "Real Americans want peace." Having an opinion doesn't make you a real American or a fake American.
It's not the president's job to make sure that he's well liked in Europe. His job is to look after American interests. Whether or not what the president thinks is good for America is actually good or not is a different discussion entirely. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bush at all. However, that doesn't give me the right to tell people who to vote for.
I have said enough. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if somebody thinks Bush is the best qualified to lead America, they're anti-American?
People are entitled to their opinions. That statement is the same kind of crap that people were spewing right before Gulf War II. "Real Americans support the President." Or "Real Americans want peace." Having an opinion doesn't make you a real American or a fake American.
It's not the president's job to make sure that he's well liked in Europe. His job is to look after American interests. Whether or not what the president thinks is good for America is actually good or not is a different discussion entirely. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bush at all. However, that doesn't give me the right to tell people who to vote for. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say that people who vote for Bush are not real USAmericans. I just think that Bush is probably the worst president of USA ever, hence people who don't like USA(say Al Qaeda) should support Bush instead of protesting him. He is(imo of course) doing more harm to his own country than 11/9.
But that's my opinion. I guess there are lot of people thinking Bush Jr. is the best thing since sliced bread and is really helping US economy, diplomatical relations, public healthcare, schooling and whatnot. That's their opinion and they are entitled to that.
Also I said nothing about Euro USA relations.
Edited typos. I can't spell <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I vision pictures of our heads dug in the ground. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well first you have to decide if you think 9/11 would have happened with Gore in office. There is quite clearly a case to be made that many people knew that an attack was imminent. The FBI, the CIA, some people who bought loads of put options in the airline industry, the mayor of San Francisco, Russian intelligence, the Mossad.... quite a few people knew that something was going to happen on 9/11 and they tried desperately to alert those who could do something about it. Yet no one did. They were all asleep at the wheel. The only facts available to us center around what knowledge Bush had and what Bush did in response to that knowledge. Gore did not know, and Gore did not do. You cannot claim someone else would have done a worse or better job, you can only speculate.
To try and imagine disparaging someone for something they had no control over is not fair to that person, regardless of what you think of them. We can't turn back the clocks and try to fit other "would be" presidents into the roles they never had. Would Gore have allowed the advance information about 9/11 to go unheeded? Would he and Liebermann have spent considerable effort to make sure the FBI didn't pursue the information presented to them? Who knows? What would Kennedy have done with Vietnam had he not been assasinated? What would Dukakis have done in 1990 when Saddam invaded Kuwait? These aren't things you can logically debate about. It's simply unfair to criticize someone for an act they could not participate in.
All that said, I cannot imagine that <b>any</b> American... Democrat, Republican, Green Party, Independent, whatever you want to pick... would just sit back after 9/11, feel sorry his country, and then choose to just bury his head in the sand. I can't accept that, regardless of who "could have been" in office. Put anyone in that place and I'm sure you'll have a war on your hands. I sincerely doubt that Gore would be invading a country to oust a ruler that had nothing to do with 9/11, however there would be some kind of effort to bring the true perpetrators to justice.
My problem with Bush centers around the fact he and his administration are all pathological liars... from the 2000 campaign to the present.