SakuraSakura Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13789Members, Constellation
edited November 2003 in Frontiersmen Strategy
<div class="IPBDescription">chokepoints explained</div> This is a analysis of the map ns_veil with regards to chokepoints. Please note, that this is *not* a full-fledged strategy, and that chokepoints are dependant on the map and not on a specific style of play. Some strategies will use one, some or all of the chokepoints described and some strategies won't. Please also note, that this is not meant to list all the important places on the map - only the places crucial tomoving through and fortifying the map.

I have chosen to make it from the marine viewpoint, but the points are equally important to the kharaa.

First, an overview of the map. The chokepoints I have identified are marked with a green circle with a letter in it. Each of the chokepoints is described in detail further down.

<img src='http://www.control.auc.dk/~sara/ns_veil.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

I presume that marines occupy and hold the marine spawn and that the entrances to Pod 1 and 2 from marine spawn are welded early and rendered impassable.

<b>Chokepoint A</b>
The first chokepoint is not that far from the marine spawn. It does not provide any extra resources, nd as such it is not an investment that will repay itself to fortify this point. It does however have some value, if the aliens are very lerk-intensive, as it will protect the marine base from spore attacks. I will however only recommend fortifying this point if it is absolutely impossible to get to point B.

<b>Chokepoint B</b>
This point is close to point A, but it has some definate advantages. If defended sufficiently it will both protect your base from lerks (like chokepoint A) *and* secure the Skylights resource node. There is a pretty long corridor to protect (West Junction), which makes it a good spot to place a turretfarm. Remember to cover the corridor that enters West Junction from the south, or risk a lerk to spike your turrets or turret factory to death. Please notice that if aliens hold Subsector 5 B, there is a relatively short route to this point, and you can expect quite a lot of rush activity - especially if you do not also posess chokepoint C.

<b>Chokepoint C</b>
Here is another multi-purpose point. First of all, it can secure another resource node, Overlook, which will slowly return your investment. Second it is an excellent spot to keep the Subsector hive down from. If you intend to build sieges there, make sure to build them close enough to the hive, so they can actuelly reach.
Here too is a long corridor to defend, which can be covered by turrets. (Remember to build an observatory there too, to avoid sensory traps - I know I said this wouldn't be strategy, but I see this error way too often).
Together with chokepoint B, this point is one of the most important places to hold on the western part of the map. The two points together effectively secure 2 resources and one side of the marine base.

<b>Chokepoints D and E</b>
These two points should always be taken together, if they are to hold optimal alue. If chokepoint D is taken alone, the aliens will use the vent between the two points to get past it. If chokepoint E is taken alone, the aliens can waltz right past your defenses to the north.
The points D and E effectively split the map in two parts. In one part you find Subsector hive with it's resource node, Overlook and Skylights, and in the other part you find the two other hives, 4 resource nodes and the double resource node. Since the latter can be sieged from the marine spawn, it doesn't really count to the aliens.
If marines successfully fortify these points, they will find them selv in a very advantagous position. It should be very possible to clear the side of the map from which the aliens are excluded, since they can recieve no backup there.
It might also be possible to siege Cargo hive from chokepoint E, but I haven't actually tested that. If aliens posess Cargo, it will *not* be easy to hold point E, and it will definately need marine backup and preferably phasegates.
Chokepoint E can be combined with several other points to form powerful combinations of great strategic value. I will examine these at the chokepoints in question.

<b>Chokepoints F and G</b>
Here is another example of two chokepoints, that needs to be taken together. Furthermore they should preferably be taken in combination with either chokepoint E or a fortification of the Cargo hive. If marines succeed in taking and holding these points, aliens will either be trapped in Cargo and Pipeline or excluded from these hives. It is most effective if aliens start in Subsector hive, otherwise it will be close to impossible to defend the three points.
Together with chokepoint H the points G and F can defend all of the eastern part of the map. That means that marines secure the Topographical and C-12 resource nodes and gets the base defended from spore attacks.
Notice that both of these points are hard to defend - especially if aliens have two hives. It is always difficult to cover vents with static defenses, and bilebombs can diminish a base in a minute. Mines are not much help against 2 hive gorges, as their bile bomb can set off mines from a distance.
I do not recommend anyone trying to hold these points except in combination with chokepoint E if the aliens start in Subsector hive. In that case it can be an effective means of controlling alien expansion and secure a swift marine win.

<b>Chokepoint H</b>
This point is another of the crucial places on the map. On it's own it will secure the Topographical resource and protect the marine base from lerks, but it also severely hinders alien movement in that part of the map. It will make it much more difficult for aliens to attack Nanogrid, should the marines have fortified this position.
In combination with other points on the map, chokepoint H will really do a difference. Together with chkepoint E it splits the map in two parts, which no matter where the aliens are, will be an advantage to marines. In one part of the map there is 5 resource nozzles, a hive and the double res. In the other part there is 2 hives but only three resources. If aliens are in the first part, they can get no more than one type of upgrades and hive one abilities, and if they are in part two, they will be starved of res so that advanced evolution will come at a later time and they will have problems affording to defend their hive.
Chokepoint H can also be effective together with chokepoint B in protecting the marine base and securing three resource nozzles. This will maintain a steady resflow, even if things begin to get ugly elsewhere on the map.
It must be mentioned, that chokepoint H can be very difficult to hold. It must be heavily fortified because it can be attacked from several sides at the same time. It is a relatively large room, but there are a lot of corners to hide behind and many angles to cover. Still, I think it is one of the most important points for the marines to control from the beginning of the game.

<b>Chokepoint I</b>
This point has about the same strategical value as chokepoint B. It will secure a resource nozzle, Topographical, for the marine team, and it will protect the base from spore attacks. It is worth taking, but generally I would recommend going for chokepoint H instead, if the commander can spare the res to properly defend it. Chokepoint I is good for marines to capture early in the game.

Please note that this is not a complete strategi on how to play veil as marines. It is only meant as a walk-through of the strategically important places for logistics on the map - and the Kharaa should take notice of these as well. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->


  • bliNkbliNk Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21422Members
    edited November 2003
    veil is one of my favourite maps, this is very interesting, gj <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Anonymous_CowardAnonymous_Coward Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19768Members
    This is definitely my favorite map, despite all the whining about the double res being so siegable.

    I like how you've come up with so many chokepoints, but I think the only ones that mean a damn are D, H, and F if built mostly away from the vent. Holding D makes holding Subsector quite a bit easier even without covering the vent. Of course, you'll still need a few fortifications at that hive, but the idea of chokepoints isn't so you can leave an area totally defenseless. And no matter how hard Subsector is to defend, it's still easier than defending E. Although I admit that taking both E and H can simply dominate. And if you're not worried about defending MS then the area just west of H makes a great place to fortify and it also let's you easily siege the rest of Nanogrid that you can't get from MS. B can be good, but it requires such a large investment and can be hellish to build properly. And any Skulk that makes it to that vent can just Gorge to ruin your day. And doing so is extremely difficult to prevent. One can easily go Fade in there as well, then they can skip your chokepoint on their way to creating havoc.

    There are better ones for the aliens of course, but usually you don't see any fortifications on their side unless it's near an RT. Instead you have to play the Skulk ambush to keep them from expanding. Between B and D is a wonderful area. Pipeline-side defense is a bit harder, but one can work wonders around the Nozzle. The only real chokepoint is Nanogrid itself, build up fortifications just outside the range of MS siege and don't allow them to take such a central area. It's like chess, if you control the middle of the board you gain an advantage. Then there is Overlook, which can slow them down significantly and Topographical isn't impossible to hold with Skulk support.

    The number one chokepoint that most people forget about in many maps is Marine Start. Even if you relocate, it may be advantagious to build up MS a bit when you have the resources. And for the aliens it's sometimes a good idea to work to prevent Beacon comebacks or to keep them away from the free MS node.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    Chokepoints B and H are the two I lock as an alien, without exception.

    H is a prime site for huge OC crossfire, needing only occasional healspray maintenance.
    B is where I just stick up a wall and rush to it when I see a structure under attack.

    From BOTH sites aliens can rush the two outlying marine rts and keep knocking them down over and over.

    On the marine side, you NEED to control those points because they allow the bulk of transit around the map. They cover all routes into base and thus are vital forward positions. They're also close to Nozzle and Overlook, well within patrol distance and thus giving you a fairly regular res income - though if you camp it out you'll ultimately lose.

    From B, you can rush the hive and go straight to E, locking down half the map. Likewise you can go from H to F, cleaning out a hive en route. From both positions you can push into cargo hive.

    If you KNOW where the alien hive is, an early rush can secure E and H locking the aliens into Pipe with very little res, while ONE rine can go and cap all the res you ran past, if necessary. Subsector is trickier to exploit at game start, whereas cargo follows a standard B H lock with a push to either outlying hive a necessity shortly into the game.

    Just don't make the mistake of fighting over nanogrid. Its a Last Stand area - you go in, you lame up, you don't go out. If you hold E and H, send in one rine to build the rts in Nano, but don't think of building there if you've not got the surrounding area locked down, because aliens will just leap over everything and rush the dbl res, starving you and generally costing you the game.
  • SDJasonSDJason Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
    I find relocating to E and phasing/Farming H within 2-3 minutes of game is HIGHLY effective if aliens have anything but subsector hive...

    By doing so you gain 7 rt.... and the two chokepoints to access these rt's are completely guarded..... so you dont even need to electrify them, so long as all aliens who sneak by are killed promptly....

    This relocate to E was performed by an excellent comm once, and i have since then modified it to include locking down H.. which gives you exclusive access to these 7 rt's....

    Highly effective if pulled off...

  • ApeApe Join Date: 2003-06-17 Member: 17448Members, Constellation
    edited November 2003
    Nice thread. I love veil, and it's one of the more propular maps when it comes to clan wars. Jason, I take it this is a public strat? Have you tried it in a clan match? It's a long way to run for marines in a war, although I'll give it a try and see how we go.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Chokepoints B and H are the two I lock as an alien, without exception.

    H is a prime site for huge OC crossfire, needing only occasional healspray maintenance.
    B is where I just stick up a wall and rush to it when I see a structure under attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Once you have these areas locked down effectively, it's gg for marines unless they're very co-ordinated, and have a decent GLer or two amongst them. A fact often overlooked by pubbers.
  • LastLast Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21463Members
    You can never stop a skulk, lerk or fade from going past a chokepoint without a huge amount of turrets. However, rather then chokepoints, these places should serve as a launching point for attacks. For example, system waypointing (D) is a great place to relocate as it allows quick access to subsector, cargo, nanogrid, and overlook, that's two hives and 5 rts easily simply because you can get to those places so quickly. From there, it shouldn't be too hard to win.

    BTW, thx for using my map overview (I think).
  • SDJasonSDJason Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
    it is a long way to run.... but the key is to spread out.. not clump... plus.. once u get there... u have hallways to defend.... and everyone knows how good marines can defend hallways

    Yes i use it on pubs... but i tend to play on good pubs(if u knwo what that means) with clan folk about... actually it was a clanner who oringially made us do the relocate there (actually y junction.... which works better)

    If you get to Y junction instead.. ur closer to double... still defending hallways... and also close to the other choke point... but you have to guard the vent and path to subsector.. which is why sometimes its better to grab up farther towards cargo (the highlighted choke point)

    But once you have it.... aliens=LOSE
    you= 7rt...
    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Ah_forget_itAh_forget_it Join Date: 2002-12-22 Member: 11331Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Where did you get your overview from?
  • XzilenXzilen Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11642Members, Constellation
    Very well put together. Its good to see these kind of posts from time to time where (argh hate to use the word again) time was put into them.
  • SakuraSakura Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13789Members, Constellation
    I downloaded the picture some time ago (can't remember who made it, but it might very well be Last) and added the location names myself.
Sign In or Register to comment.