<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 7 2003, 04:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 7 2003, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Onos dealing doulbe damage? I think it would take lv. 3 armor to prevent you from dying in one hit, and even then I'm not sure. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, just level 2 armor is enough to prevent one hit kills from an Onos. That's 180 damage against 200 and 250 health for level 2 and 3 LAs respectively. Which means that an Onos does not gain any killing-speed increase against those types of armors. You still kill them in exactly the same time as you would without Focus, except that you only need to make contact twice.
Even the Fade can't one-hit kill Level 1 armor marines. But they are only off by 6.7 health, meaning that just a touch of Spores, or any previous damage at all, will mess you up. The greatest benefit is against level 3 armor. Two quick hit and run attacks and one marine is down and two more then another... Or one strike by a Focused Fade plus a Skulk follow-up equals a very dead marine.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way. That's like saying in Starcraft that upgrading your wraith's reactor causes them to lose about 50 hitpoints 'because they're more fragile'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
one example that is most definitely NOT an ability is the elite upgrade for the Chu Ko Nu in AOE II (AOK). that UPGRADE(as u cant turn it and off) gives the archer an even faster firing rate at the cost of higher inaccuracy.
<!--QuoteBegin--DuFfY-+Nov 7 2003, 12:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuFfY- @ Nov 7 2003, 12:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At this point, the only weapons that Focus did NOT affect was Umbra and Blink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Focus affected devour?!
ROFL digest harder, ONOS! Constipate/concentrate!! Shiat that mofuker out
Course I do not know the onos abilities of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then you'd have to justify if completely GIMPING your fades and onii (No celerity or adren / regen or cara) is worth killing a marine in one bite as a SKULK.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, let's just face the fact that you <b>haven't tried it</b>. How can you claim it "gimps" anything? The people <b>who have actually tried it</b> says it is a great upgrade (for fades and onos too).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Furthermore, it only affects slot 1 abilities? What crap is that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This has been explained several times. It was too over-powering to some attacks, like xenocide.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just factually wrong. A bigger gun in CS is stronger, but makes you slower. NVG makes you more vulnerable to flashbangs. Scoped weapons limit your FOV. In many, many, games upgrades of all sorts comes not only with a cost of economy, but with some sort of drawback to balance it.
You're arguments are becoming desperate. All your claims have been refuted and debunked. Your hysteria, as someone who hasn't tried teh changes, becomes comical when compared to the calmness of those who have. Stop this ranting now.
Focus is an awsome upgrade. For each chamber it makes damage go up by 10%, while speed go down by 20%. This means that with three damage goes up by 30% and speed by 60%. I am pritty sure that is how it works right now. Anyways, in the actual game, it is awsome during the early game, and works well into mid and late game. Staying near a sence chamber and waiting for 3 marines to pass you, and then biting all of their heads off in 3 consecutive chomps is fun <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Snidely+Dec 13 2003, 09:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Dec 13 2003, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are you sure it's not 33/66/100% damage?
Can we please get this sorted out and put into the changelogs? Enquiring minds want to know the truth. ;D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It changed recently so here is the latest. At level 3, you get double damage to your slot 1 attack, while other attacks are uneffected. You also get slightly more than double cooldown to your slot 1 attack. This is a recent change, it used to be exactly double. So now, for the first time, it can be validly said that focus has a small downside. Basicly it is an extreme anti personel upgrade that lets you kill marines much more efficiently, but slightly reduces your effectiveness against marine buildings.
Just so you know, this slight downside was added due to the fact that, with no downside, focus was too brutally effective for almost every life form. Now it's most effective for sneaking skulks, lerks trying to bring down JP(This is focus at it's most usefull I believe: when you can't get more than one hit per several seconds anyway), and hit and run fades. It's still not bad for others. Focus spit really hurts if you can aim well, and you won't run out of energy. It's just not the end all upgrade it was back when it was double damage double cooldown for basicly every attack.
I havn't tried it at levels one and two, but I believe it's plus 1/3 damage and plus 2/3 damage, with plus a hair more than 1/3 and 2/3 cooldown.
I dont mind being killed by cloaked/focus skulks too much, unless they rush base, and wait for marines to spawn in before <b>instantly</b> (and I mean instantly, you'll be lucky to get a single shot out sometimes) killing them.
I think this could be easily fixed if:
o Dead marines wave spawned again, and not 4 or 5 at a time. o the Spawn Invul time was set to "on" again.
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
Focus seems to be taking over alien brains
They stay skulk, get all the upgrades and then go around with silence sof focus, cara, regen, adren, celer, cloak, and marines get killed 'randomly' as if there was nothign there, thast only in combat though, I don't see that in regular ns too much though
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 7 2003, 02:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 7 2003, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then you'd have to justify if completely GIMPING your fades and onii (No celerity or adren / regen or cara) is worth killing a marine in one bite as a SKULK. Furthermore, it only affects slot 1 abilities? What crap is that!
Sounds like this is the alien's version of a shotgun rush. All or nothing.
Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way. That's like saying in Starcraft that upgrading your wraith's reactor causes them to lose about 50 hitpoints 'because they're more fragile'. Or upgrading metabolize for your hydralisks causes their attacks to only do 60% as much damage 'because they can run away now'.
This is an UPGRADE. UPGRADES NEVER SHOULD COME WITH A 'CON'. It was bad enough that cloaking is 100% useless because scans are free... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But ypu've never tried it and those who have say it's ok so you should assume from the evidence of informed people that it is good rather than forming your own opinions about something you really no nothing about.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Dec 13 2003, 04:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Dec 13 2003, 04:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, now you are just way off, Uranium.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then you'd have to justify if completely GIMPING your fades and onii (No celerity or adren / regen or cara) is worth killing a marine in one bite as a SKULK.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, let's just face the fact that you <b>haven't tried it</b>. How can you claim it "gimps" anything? The people <b>who have actually tried it</b> says it is a great upgrade (for fades and onos too). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's pretend the marines move into hive 3 and upgrade. So now passive sensory abilities are useless, the only thing really important there is focus. Now let's say the marines also have level 3 weapons. Hmm you have hive 1 and 2, so now you can either have defense chambers or movement chambers.
First of all, fades are as strong as wet paper. Without a defense chamber, you're going to have to rely on that POS metabolize crap which frankly, sucks. If the marine have level 3 upgrades, your chances of surviving are slim indeed. Plus, it's got a larger hitbox AND it costs more!
Same goes for onos. Onos without regen or carapace is barely even half as effective as it could be.
Perhaps movement chambers, hmm? It's so fun investing 100 resources into a creature that will get gunned down before he can waddle 20 feet down a corridor. Or a fade that can blink up to marines just to have them run away from his pathetically short claws and atrocious footspeed. Or both that make noises screaming "HERE I AM COME KILL ME!".
Now I can either die quicker or move slower, and kill *A* marine faster, just to have his buddies gun me down because I'm missing a critical upgrade to survival while I fart around waiting for my 2.25x rate of fire penalty to let me hit another.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Furthermore, it only affects slot 1 abilities? What crap is that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This has been explained several times. It was too over-powering to some attacks, like xenocide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. <b>God forbid</b> a hive 3 attack that can only be used once, lowers your score, and forces you to wait in the spawn cue and respawn back at the hive and regain your upgrades again kills <b>one marine</b>. GOD FREAKING FORBID A VANILLA MARINE DIES TO A HIVE 3 ATTACK!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just factually wrong. A bigger gun in CS is stronger, but makes you slower. NVG makes you more vulnerable to flashbangs. Scoped weapons limit your FOV. In many, many, games upgrades of all sorts comes not only with a cost of economy, but with some sort of drawback to balance it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're confusing an UPGRADE (Read: A global boost to performance) with a NEW UNIT. A starcraft goliath is NOT the same as U-238 Shells. If you can't understand that I recommend slamming your fingers in a car door. A few times.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're arguments are becoming desperate. All your claims have been refuted and debunked. Your hysteria, as someone who hasn't tried teh changes, becomes comical when compared to the calmness of those who have. Stop this ranting now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gee Stonehead, I wish I could learn to flamebait like you.
Comments
No, just level 2 armor is enough to prevent one hit kills from an Onos. That's 180 damage against 200 and 250 health for level 2 and 3 LAs respectively. Which means that an Onos does not gain any killing-speed increase against those types of armors. You still kill them in exactly the same time as you would without Focus, except that you only need to make contact twice.
Even the Fade can't one-hit kill Level 1 armor marines. But they are only off by 6.7 health, meaning that just a touch of Spores, or any previous damage at all, will mess you up. The greatest benefit is against level 3 armor. Two quick hit and run attacks and one marine is down and two more then another... Or one strike by a Focused Fade plus a Skulk follow-up equals a very dead marine.
one example that is most definitely NOT an ability is the elite upgrade for the Chu Ko Nu in AOE II (AOK). that UPGRADE(as u cant turn it and off) gives the archer an even faster firing rate at the cost of higher inaccuracy.
Focus affected devour?!
ROFL digest harder, ONOS! Constipate/concentrate!! Shiat that mofuker out
Course I do not know the onos abilities of the time.
which would you rather have as an option... focus or pheremones?
HMM
not to mention it doesn't affect all your other weapon slot attack speeds...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then you'd have to justify if completely GIMPING your fades and onii (No celerity or adren / regen or cara) is worth killing a marine in one bite as a SKULK.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, let's just face the fact that you <b>haven't tried it</b>. How can you claim it "gimps" anything? The people <b>who have actually tried it</b> says it is a great upgrade (for fades and onos too).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Furthermore, it only affects slot 1 abilities? What crap is that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This has been explained several times. It was too over-powering to some attacks, like xenocide.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just factually wrong. A bigger gun in CS is stronger, but makes you slower. NVG makes you more vulnerable to flashbangs. Scoped weapons limit your FOV. In many, many, games upgrades of all sorts comes not only with a cost of economy, but with some sort of drawback to balance it.
You're arguments are becoming desperate. All your claims have been refuted and debunked. Your hysteria, as someone who hasn't tried teh changes, becomes comical when compared to the calmness of those who have. Stop this ranting now.
Dude...he stopped on the 7th of November. ;P
Can we please get this sorted out and put into the changelogs? Enquiring minds want to know the truth. ;D
Can we please get this sorted out and put into the changelogs? Enquiring minds want to know the truth. ;D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It changed recently so here is the latest. At level 3, you get double damage to your slot 1 attack, while other attacks are uneffected. You also get slightly more than double cooldown to your slot 1 attack. This is a recent change, it used to be exactly double. So now, for the first time, it can be validly said that focus has a small downside. Basicly it is an extreme anti personel upgrade that lets you kill marines much more efficiently, but slightly reduces your effectiveness against marine buildings.
Just so you know, this slight downside was added due to the fact that, with no downside, focus was too brutally effective for almost every life form. Now it's most effective for sneaking skulks, lerks trying to bring down JP(This is focus at it's most usefull I believe: when you can't get more than one hit per several seconds anyway), and hit and run fades. It's still not bad for others. Focus spit really hurts if you can aim well, and you won't run out of energy. It's just not the end all upgrade it was back when it was double damage double cooldown for basicly every attack.
I havn't tried it at levels one and two, but I believe it's plus 1/3 damage and plus 2/3 damage, with plus a hair more than 1/3 and 2/3 cooldown.
killing them.
I think this could be easily fixed if:
o Dead marines wave spawned again, and not 4 or 5 at a time.
o the Spawn Invul time was set to "on" again.
33/66/100% of damage
20/40/60% of cooldown
the thing is, it wouldn't bring the marines down to one bite without armor if it wasn't 100%
They stay skulk, get all the upgrades and then go around with silence sof focus, cara, regen, adren, celer, cloak, and marines get killed 'randomly' as if there was nothign there, thast only in combat though, I don't see that in regular ns too much though
Sounds like this is the alien's version of a shotgun rush. All or nothing.
Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way. That's like saying in Starcraft that upgrading your wraith's reactor causes them to lose about 50 hitpoints 'because they're more fragile'. Or upgrading metabolize for your hydralisks causes their attacks to only do 60% as much damage 'because they can run away now'.
This is an UPGRADE. UPGRADES NEVER SHOULD COME WITH A 'CON'. It was bad enough that cloaking is 100% useless because scans are free... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But ypu've never tried it and those who have say it's ok so you should assume from the evidence of informed people that it is good rather than forming your own opinions about something you really no nothing about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then you'd have to justify if completely GIMPING your fades and onii (No celerity or adren / regen or cara) is worth killing a marine in one bite as a SKULK.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, let's just face the fact that you <b>haven't tried it</b>. How can you claim it "gimps" anything? The people <b>who have actually tried it</b> says it is a great upgrade (for fades and onos too). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's pretend the marines move into hive 3 and upgrade. So now passive sensory abilities are useless, the only thing really important there is focus. Now let's say the marines also have level 3 weapons. Hmm you have hive 1 and 2, so now you can either have defense chambers or movement chambers.
First of all, fades are as strong as wet paper. Without a defense chamber, you're going to have to rely on that POS metabolize crap which frankly, sucks. If the marine have level 3 upgrades, your chances of surviving are slim indeed. Plus, it's got a larger hitbox AND it costs more!
Same goes for onos. Onos without regen or carapace is barely even half as effective as it could be.
Perhaps movement chambers, hmm? It's so fun investing 100 resources into a creature that will get gunned down before he can waddle 20 feet down a corridor. Or a fade that can blink up to marines just to have them run away from his pathetically short claws and atrocious footspeed. Or both that make noises screaming "HERE I AM COME KILL ME!".
Now I can either die quicker or move slower, and kill *A* marine faster, just to have his buddies gun me down because I'm missing a critical upgrade to survival while I fart around waiting for my 2.25x rate of fire penalty to let me hit another.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Furthermore, it only affects slot 1 abilities? What crap is that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This has been explained several times. It was too over-powering to some attacks, like xenocide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. <b>God forbid</b> a hive 3 attack that can only be used once, lowers your score, and forces you to wait in the spawn cue and respawn back at the hive and regain your upgrades again kills <b>one marine</b>. GOD FREAKING FORBID A VANILLA MARINE DIES TO A HIVE 3 ATTACK!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, annoncoward, my point is that in NO GAME does an UPGRADE negatively affect you in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just factually wrong. A bigger gun in CS is stronger, but makes you slower. NVG makes you more vulnerable to flashbangs. Scoped weapons limit your FOV. In many, many, games upgrades of all sorts comes not only with a cost of economy, but with some sort of drawback to balance it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're confusing an UPGRADE (Read: A global boost to performance) with a NEW UNIT. A starcraft goliath is NOT the same as U-238 Shells. If you can't understand that I recommend slamming your fingers in a car door. A few times.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're arguments are becoming desperate. All your claims have been refuted and debunked. Your hysteria, as someone who hasn't tried teh changes, becomes comical when compared to the calmness of those who have. Stop this ranting now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gee Stonehead, I wish I could learn to flamebait like you.
If you can't discuss matters maturely, don't.