Cheating And Clans.
Hunty
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">An observation.</div> Has anyone wondered,how many cheaters are in clans?You think,that because they are in a clan,they have to be clean,since the clan would definately not allow any cheaters in.But...how would they know?Also what if he starts cheating AFTER he is accepted?Lets look at NS.A lot of the good clan players,could be really good,or cheaters.Seriously over the internet,its just-not-safe.Anti-cheating tools are nearly always a step behind,except for cheating death,which i have to admire as it works the best.I read the CAL's rules page once.Sounded pretty smart when it comes to defeating cheaters.All players have to submit demos that they take of themselves.I am not sure if wallhacks appear in the demo though,but if they do,well then they cant use it.But aimbots...ahh AIMBOTS!The only way you can find them from specing in first person or viewing self-demos is if you can figure them out.Suppose he turns the aimbot on-off periodically,so that you dont always see lockons,180 degree turns,headshots across the map?Well then you have a MUCH weaker case.
Faking cheats is extremely easy.VERY.Oh,first time cheaters often make mistakes and are careless...but even then.....it takes a long time of suspicion and dedicated,smart spectaters to determine with certainty that they do cheat.
Let me explain what i mean.When i wanted to play DOD,but found seeing the players way,i mean WAY too difficult as most of the maps were DARK-themed(i remember playing earlier betas,they used to have maps with bright sunlight,wonder why its out),i found a solution.A wallhack.White walls,lambert was the answer to finding players easily in the game.And of course i used the transparent walls feature,it seemed pointless not to.The result?I never got ambushed.I could spot players in dark areas and snipe them.I could popup,deploy a mg at a window,and blaze away to kill a VERY surprised sniper or MGer across the map.In fact,i would be godlike ingame,except for some strange in-explicable reason,players using forbidden cilient commands,lag,a game bug....people didnt die all the time.With 50 ping and 35 FPS,i used to need 10-20 rounds from a SMG to kill people at POINTBLANK or very close range.Stationery targets as well.I once emptied 2 clips of kar98 rounds into someone's back....and he lived to turn around and head-shot me(i think he was typing.I certaintly wasnt lagged,and neither was he).Another time,i needed at least 70 rounds from a MG to kill someone rushing at me in a straight line.
Of COURSE i got careless.Made mistakes.Became over-confident.People began to spec me.I didnt make the LINK.Didnt think to throw the hunters off.I would continue turning corners,firing away,nading targets that i could never have seen without the wallhack,etc.Naturally got found out,banned,buh-bye.
At that time,i stopped to think.What did i do wrong,how did they find me out?I figured it out.With a simple change of cd-keys that are available on the net,i was back in,under a different nick and way more careful.People speced me,i threw them off.Sometimes i would round corners to kill surprised campers,other times i would deliberately walk past and die.Sometimes i would hit others hidden in dark corners across the map,sometimes i wouldnt.So people wondered.If i was cheating...why was it inconsistent?They reached a conclusion : That i had somehow,heard,or seen them moving there,and was not wallhacking.Eventually i joined a clan.They didnt know about me cheating of course.My cheating became slightly more blatant.More of the "omg how did you know?" variety.But any accusations were stopped at the door by massive,simply MASSIVE outcry(aka flaming) by my clanmates and the community,who were all certain that i didnt cheat.
Could this story be similar to that of a well known clanner in NS?Who knows,maybe,just maybe,one of the top clans have several cheaters in them.
And we wont be able to find them.Its just too easy to fake cheating.Just too easy.HLG?All i had to do was get the latest version of the hack,re-name it,and put it somewhere other than my half life folder.BINGO.Though it did stop seeing through walls,it wasnt perfect and i still had white walls and lambert.VAC?Latest version of the hacks,mostly released within 48 hours of the latest VAC update,are vac-proof.And how often does VAC update?A week?A couple of weeks?A month?And Cheating Death.Oh yes cheating death.Part of its effectiveness is that its updated VERY frequently...so cheaters rarely have long times to update their hacks to be CD-proof.Also it allows people to be more certain of who is NOT cheating,as those with CD running cant cheat.Or can they?Theres a new hack out there,i wont give the name as i dont want it showing up in google,etc,that lets you get CD-Authentiated,but allows you to cheat.
Lets say,that the effort to make an anti-cheat that will defeat a current cheat,is the cube of the effort to make the cheat defeat the current anti-cheat.
Thats what its like.
P.S.Oh just a tidbit.....CD uses nearly the EXACT same source as OGC does.Something like that.Code or source whatever it is....its nearly the same.
Faking cheats is extremely easy.VERY.Oh,first time cheaters often make mistakes and are careless...but even then.....it takes a long time of suspicion and dedicated,smart spectaters to determine with certainty that they do cheat.
Let me explain what i mean.When i wanted to play DOD,but found seeing the players way,i mean WAY too difficult as most of the maps were DARK-themed(i remember playing earlier betas,they used to have maps with bright sunlight,wonder why its out),i found a solution.A wallhack.White walls,lambert was the answer to finding players easily in the game.And of course i used the transparent walls feature,it seemed pointless not to.The result?I never got ambushed.I could spot players in dark areas and snipe them.I could popup,deploy a mg at a window,and blaze away to kill a VERY surprised sniper or MGer across the map.In fact,i would be godlike ingame,except for some strange in-explicable reason,players using forbidden cilient commands,lag,a game bug....people didnt die all the time.With 50 ping and 35 FPS,i used to need 10-20 rounds from a SMG to kill people at POINTBLANK or very close range.Stationery targets as well.I once emptied 2 clips of kar98 rounds into someone's back....and he lived to turn around and head-shot me(i think he was typing.I certaintly wasnt lagged,and neither was he).Another time,i needed at least 70 rounds from a MG to kill someone rushing at me in a straight line.
Of COURSE i got careless.Made mistakes.Became over-confident.People began to spec me.I didnt make the LINK.Didnt think to throw the hunters off.I would continue turning corners,firing away,nading targets that i could never have seen without the wallhack,etc.Naturally got found out,banned,buh-bye.
At that time,i stopped to think.What did i do wrong,how did they find me out?I figured it out.With a simple change of cd-keys that are available on the net,i was back in,under a different nick and way more careful.People speced me,i threw them off.Sometimes i would round corners to kill surprised campers,other times i would deliberately walk past and die.Sometimes i would hit others hidden in dark corners across the map,sometimes i wouldnt.So people wondered.If i was cheating...why was it inconsistent?They reached a conclusion : That i had somehow,heard,or seen them moving there,and was not wallhacking.Eventually i joined a clan.They didnt know about me cheating of course.My cheating became slightly more blatant.More of the "omg how did you know?" variety.But any accusations were stopped at the door by massive,simply MASSIVE outcry(aka flaming) by my clanmates and the community,who were all certain that i didnt cheat.
Could this story be similar to that of a well known clanner in NS?Who knows,maybe,just maybe,one of the top clans have several cheaters in them.
And we wont be able to find them.Its just too easy to fake cheating.Just too easy.HLG?All i had to do was get the latest version of the hack,re-name it,and put it somewhere other than my half life folder.BINGO.Though it did stop seeing through walls,it wasnt perfect and i still had white walls and lambert.VAC?Latest version of the hacks,mostly released within 48 hours of the latest VAC update,are vac-proof.And how often does VAC update?A week?A couple of weeks?A month?And Cheating Death.Oh yes cheating death.Part of its effectiveness is that its updated VERY frequently...so cheaters rarely have long times to update their hacks to be CD-proof.Also it allows people to be more certain of who is NOT cheating,as those with CD running cant cheat.Or can they?Theres a new hack out there,i wont give the name as i dont want it showing up in google,etc,that lets you get CD-Authentiated,but allows you to cheat.
Lets say,that the effort to make an anti-cheat that will defeat a current cheat,is the cube of the effort to make the cheat defeat the current anti-cheat.
Thats what its like.
P.S.Oh just a tidbit.....CD uses nearly the EXACT same source as OGC does.Something like that.Code or source whatever it is....its nearly the same.
Comments
Hacked into his PC!My thats an idea i havent thought of!Seems like the most effective anti-cheating method i have ever heard of too.
Of course sinces its,well ILLEGAL,i dont think CAL will be getting hackers to do it.
now i found out since.. this person has hacked in CS and helped write a fair few hacks... and they also have theyre own hacks out on the web.. (i was gonna link then realised the instant bannage lol ) i myself have installed cheats and yes for NS just before i reformatted.. i installed some hacks begining with J i wont say the full name cos some people may act on it and try to find them... but yeah... i went ingame.. and EVERY thing i suspected of this player.. came SO easily to me.. it was like i had morphed into that player... so yeah.. you never know cos yeah your a clan.. a team.. you back each other.. no matter what...
I for one think that clans and cheaters don't go hand in hand, but some people do sucumb to the temptation to be better.
I recall a topic in generall I think that was locked but was about clanners and hacking
being in a clan might offer you a social buffer to make people thinking you hack, but people will still be suspicous.
I can remember a reg who got obscenely good in the space of a day, and I was just many on the alien team to think he hacked, however since he was a reg on the server he was untouchable
on a different note CD and OGC source are related probably the same becuase they operate in the same manners (between HL / whatever mod)
I like corn,apples,and pie.I don't like juice.
I like corn, apples, and pie. I don't like juice.
The second example is correct and the first is not. Using punctuation does not nullify the need for a space between words to make reading easy. Please go back and edit your improperly written paragraphs.
I like corn,apples,and pie.I don't like juice.
I like corn, apples, and pie. I don't like juice.
The second example is correct and the first is not. Using punctuation does not nullify the need for a space between words to make reading easy. Please go back and edit your improperly written paragraphs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...worthless!
I agree though Boggle.
Uh huh.Im not in school and i dont want to be.
I am currently in a state of "LOL" in regards to the above post.
Exactlyimeanwhatifyoujustdroppedpuctuationaswellitwouldcertainlysavetypingbutwouldalsohinderanyonesabilitytoreadit
Worthless. You can just change your files before the admin checks them, and then put back on the hacks.
Cheating IMO is a big problem in clans, anyone can do it, and fake it.
Some of the biggest forms of cheats rely in aim correctors follow by wallhacks.
That's why you use CD.
Uh huh.Im not in school and i dont want to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about correct English; it's about how ****ing annoying it is to read your posts when you don't put in the spaces. I'm not trying to put you down about your English skills or anything, I'm sure you have great English skills, but come on, it's not hard to put a space in after periods and such. It makes it kind of annoying reading a long post that you've posted, just like using u or r or gA in place of the normal words gets annoying.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I had a demo of a vet abusing cl_rate. A rather well known one too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, you sound so much like a tabloid reporter. Now you just need to blackmail the guy.... mwhaha. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
About clan hacking, I have no doubt in my mind that many major "clanners" have hacks and use them on a daily basis when playing on pub servers. I don't think they use these hacks for clan matches, they are above that, but they think it's "fun" to use them on pubs because it makes them look so good. It's really lame...
The problem is getting the community to accept the fact that many "vets" hack. They'll just shoot down the guy that pointed the hacker out, calling him a skill-less nub who doesn't know what real skill (the guys hack) is.
I do understand that these "vets" have alot more real skill than I, or many other newbies will ever have and I also understand that most of the things these guys do are skill and skill alone. But entering a room, aiming at one corner, shooting the skulk, and walking away not looking at any other corner 1 minute into the game is not skill and is a hack. Same as running up to a skulk cloaked by 3 sc's and knifing him with no scan being used or no obs nearby.
The whole community needs to accept the fact that having 2000 posts doesn't make a member more respectable or honest then a guy with 5 posts. Once that happens I think we can really start to crack down on hacks instead putting our trust blindy on C-D. (which doesn't work very well, mind you)
Uh huh.Im not in school and i dont want to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about correct English; it's about how ****ing annoying it is to read your posts when you don't put in the spaces. I'm not trying to put you down about your English skills or anything, I'm sure you have great English skills, but come on, it's not hard to put a space in after periods and such. It makes it kind of annoying reading a long post that you've posted, just like using u or r or gA in place of the normal words gets annoying.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok. lets drop this whole thing please. If you can read it and understand it, dont complain. If you find it difficult, spend more time reading it
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I do understand that these "vets" have alot more real skill than I, or many other newbies will ever have and I also understand that most of the things these guys do are skill and skill alone. But entering a room, aiming at one corner, shooting the skulk, and walking away not looking at any other corner 1 minute into the game is not skill and is a hack. Same as running up to a skulk cloaked by 3 sc's and knifing him with no scan being used or no obs nearby. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
shooting a skulk in a corner doesnt sound like a hack, it sounds like stupidity or intelligence. Alines have rushed, most of them been killed, only one left alive, run into the room, see it, kill it. There wont be any other skulks in that room, they are all dead.
As for the sensory chambers, without and hacking, you can still see the cloaked structures if you look carefully. If the alien has got the cloaking upgrade, they are only 95% visible anyway, quite obvious to the trained eye. the sensory chambers only increase the speed of cloaking, not the level. It may be difficult, but, tbh a marine running up to a skulk and knifing him, cloaked or not, doesnt scream "Hacking Marine!!", it screams "Stupid Skulk!!"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The whole community needs to accept the fact that having 2000 posts doesn't make a member more respectable or honest then a guy with 5 posts. Once that happens I think we can really start to crack down on hacks instead putting our trust blindy on C-D. (which doesn't work very well, mind you)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many of the vets have less than 1000 posts but i see your point. It would be just as easy for me to hack as it would be for you. I dont of course because it ruins the game. I think it is less likely that a member with 2000+ posts will be cheating, because we have seen the hard work that has gone into this game and we like flayra and the dev team and we dont want to ruin it. I do see your point, but i think it is slightly off the mark.
Only 1 Vet has over 1000. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Only 1 Vet has over 1000. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
they all play too much to post ya see.... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
its people like me who have grown weary of skulk hunting.. i post more <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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I stand corrected.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
shooting a skulk in a corner doesnt sound like a hack, it sounds like stupidity or intelligence. Alines have rushed, most of them been killed, only one left alive, run into the room, see it, kill it. There wont be any other skulks in that room, they are all dead.
As for the sensory chambers, without and hacking, you can still see the cloaked structures if you look carefully. If the alien has got the cloaking upgrade, they are only 95% visible anyway, quite obvious to the trained eye. the sensory chambers only increase the speed of cloaking, not the level. It may be difficult, but, tbh a marine running up to a skulk and knifing him, cloaked or not, doesnt scream "Hacking Marine!!", it screams "Stupid Skulk!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll admit I haven't really seen anyone do this, I was just picking out examples of some hacks that would be obvious. Coming from a door and looking straight up at a skulk, shooting him, then continuing on without even looking at anything else screams "HACKS!" to me more than "BAD SKULK". (I'm talking 1-2 minutes into a game, no MT) And for the SC thing, I mean like running up to the skulk and knifing him right when you enter the room, I don't think that's possible unless the person is a.) hacking or b.) messing with their gamma.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Many of the vets have less than 1000 posts but i see your point. It would be just as easy for me to hack as it would be for you. I dont of course because it ruins the game. I think it is less likely that a member with 2000+ posts will be cheating, because we have seen the hard work that has gone into this game and we like flayra and the dev team and we dont want to ruin it. I do see your point, but i think it is slightly off the mark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The entire vet thing wasn't about whether they hack or not, (I know for a fact that no serious vet hacks) but rather getting these people to listen to the complaints instead of just calling them false. Even if they don't have evidence at the moment don't just say they're lying, wait for them to either post the evidence, or get <i>proven</i> to be a lying nub.
I used the word "vet" wrongly in the last post. I really mean clanners, people who think they're immune because they have that fancy tag in front of their name. People that think they can get away with anything because they have "connections". What makes <i>them</i> more honest and respectable then any other NS player, new or old? If people would just listen, and understand the fact that hacks are easy to get for NS, they're out there and. as long as they are, people will try to use them, clanner or non-clanner.