Why Does Noone Like Cloaking?
curlydave
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21855Members
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21855Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I think it's much better than D</div> EDIT: <b>I mean't much better than movement in the title.</b>
For some reason, when I'm alien, the gorges never build a sensory chamber unless we have three hives. However, on the few occasions when it does happen, it becomes very easy for me to rip through squads of marines as a skulk.
If I have regeneration, it becomes easy to camp by their phase gates and rip through them one by one.
Why does someone want a crappy speed increase or a little more endurance when you can be nearly completely invisible?
Also, ever tried cloaking and standing in a tunnel near marine spawn as an onos with devour ready?
Everyone says "once they have motion tracking, cloacking is useless". However, they still can't seem to see me most of the times when I'm cloacked, even if they have it! More power to sensory chambers and cloaking!
For some reason, when I'm alien, the gorges never build a sensory chamber unless we have three hives. However, on the few occasions when it does happen, it becomes very easy for me to rip through squads of marines as a skulk.
If I have regeneration, it becomes easy to camp by their phase gates and rip through them one by one.
Why does someone want a crappy speed increase or a little more endurance when you can be nearly completely invisible?
Also, ever tried cloaking and standing in a tunnel near marine spawn as an onos with devour ready?
Everyone says "once they have motion tracking, cloacking is useless". However, they still can't seem to see me most of the times when I'm cloacked, even if they have it! More power to sensory chambers and cloaking!
Comments
If I have regeneration, it becomes easy to camp by their phase gates and rip through them one by one.
Why does someone want a **** speed increase or adrenaline when you can be nearly completely invisible?
Also, ever tried cloaking and standing in a tunnel near marine spawn as an onos with devour ready?
Everyone says "once they have motion tracking, cloacking is useless". However, they still can't seem to see me most of the times when I'm cloacked, even if they have it! More power to sensory chambers and cloaking!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to understand the concept of the "Chump" player, a player who does not completely pwn when put under your favorite circumstances. I don't mean this in any way to be an insult, but some people need the boost to their health because they get shot up pretty easily /energy because they waste half of their energy attacking empty space. I am one of those people, so believe me when I say I speak form experience. Ok wow, so you figured out how to drop from cielings and leap at a group of marines from behind. I have yet to do this successfully.
Do I suck? Maybe. But it is not unlikely that there are hundreds more like me, who cringe when they see sensory go up and no one asked. Who's hands become fists when they are suddenly cloaked at first hive and no one said a word about "Who wants SC?" I may not be an awesome player, but don't let me get in the way of your fun, just ask me, so that I can say OK and leave the server, or otherwise somehow [I will] prepare to get owned hardcore.
That's why I don't like them all that much. I'd rather not risk marines entrenching themselves into hive(s) and not being able to dislodge them.
Not only that, but usuing this reason: "I can cloaked devour them as onos" is hilarious...
SC cloak for onos is useful or even good? What the hell? Esp. at the one hive level...
I think a defence chamber is more important than sensory, and should be the first chamber.
However, I think that sensory is much more valuable for the second chamber than movement.
I think a defence chamber is more important than sensory, and should be the first chamber.
However, I think that sensory is much more valuable for the second chamber than movement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, okay, in this case, I'll tell you why no one uses SC's for the second chamber:
Bigger lifeforms are designed to be agressive. Where is the agressive potential with SC upgrades? Cloaking? Scent of Fear? These things don't help you take on marine bases + other lockdowns. Great for defending, I'll admit, but even so these upgrades aren't too useful.
Adrenaline for fades, lerks, gorges, Celerity for skulks, onos - these things add a lot of firepower for the alien game, as opposed to just sitting there while cloaking waiting for marines to make their next move - at this point in the game, it's time for the aliens to make <b>their</b> move.
However, if SC chambers got something useful for larger evolutions such as an attack upgrade of +10%, +20%, +30% with each respective level, then I would consider it for a second chamber, as you would still be able to tear down fortifications with frighting speed plus marines whould need a whole new set of upgrades (obs, MT) to counter them, which would slow down their otherwise invetible tech towards JP/HA/HMG's with full upgrades.
- Kar
By second chamber, unless you are totally pwning the marine team, they will have a couple of areas controlled, and if they don't have a hive yet, they will at least be pushing towards one. Your sensory can limit their further expansion very effectively, but anywhere they have already built things your sensory is not helping at all.
Furthermore, I firmly believe that whenever MC is not the first chamber, it should be the 2nd chamber (yes even with Sens first) as it allows you to defend multiple hive sites much more effectively by moving between them.
But doesn't DC give you enough offensive push that you can use SC as a defensive push? I mean, if you have and use DC's and their upgrades well, then SC will strengthen what you already have as opposed to getting another offensive mechanism.
- Kar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well golly gee, don't I feel special now.
Of course I'm right...
Consider that you have a sensory chamber somewhere in the vacinity of a marine base/outpost. You have scent of fear and are already cloaked by being within range of the chamber. You and your alien friends watch all the marines leave the base/outpost. You rush in and tear the phase/tf apart. It's not hard (especially with gorge support).
Sensory is also very good as a first chamber. You set up sensory chambers at choke points or areas of strategic values. You get free cloaking. If you get scent of fear you are basically invisible with wallhack (when in range of chamber). I fail to see how this is useless.
Try dropping a sensory chamber in the waterfall on tanith on a random pub server. Get scent of fear and have fun.
We play sensory first almost religiously on my server (when I'm alien) and we own.
Two important notes:
1.)I found that movement as a second chamber after having sensory first = bad. I'd recommend getting defense second.
2.)Understand that good commanders often scan. Most commanders get so caught up building, med-spaming, ammo-spamming, and waypointing that they often forget to until it's too late.
Sure the SC grants cloaking to all friendly stuff around it, but this is truely only helpful when gesting and trying to take back a "choke" location, such as a double res or even a hive. As I said earlier, this will only work against oncompetent marines/comms because, as someone said earlier, an obs can remove your cloaking, thus the SC placed around a choke location is wasted until that obs is removed. MC and DC upgrades and passive functions work regards of what the marines do to the area around them.
I should add that some maps were made to use SC first. Bast and Mineshaft work good... other than that, it's based on the type of team you are on and playing against.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's your reason.
What, you want more? Okay.
Sensory is wonderful against a commander who doens't know how to handle it.
Against a commander who does, it's a near death sentence.
On the first call of "They've got cloaking!" the good marine commander knows that if he can lock down a single hive, he's more or less got the game. He also knows that his chances of pulling off a sneak attack are virtually nil, because someone on the alien side has SoF, so he doesn't even bother trying.
So what he does first is start to build his observatories if he doesn't already have one. First at the main base, then at critical controlled locations.
In the meantime, since he also knows that his men probably won't see the aliens at a distance anyway, he breaks out the shotguns. It seems like a lot of resources, until you realize that to really be effective with cloaking, the aliens are having to spend a lot of resources as well.. so marines can afford to.
Now what happens is he starts a large group push for a hive, dropping scans along the way.
Scans instantly wipe out all cloaking advantage, be it chamber or personal, reducing the aliens to two upgrades at most, more likely one or even none. Marines follow the scans to an empty hive, and work to get it locked down and remove any sensory chambers there.
Now that it's locked down, aliens are reduced to two upgrades, one of which costs them a lot of resources to be very effective in the first place, and that you can basically negate at the touch of a button.
Against a commander who does, it's a near death sentence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't have said that any better.... this is actually what i tried to say <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->SCs give you no boost to offense, meaning that if marines manage to slip through your sc net, you'll be at a disadvantage. Both DCs and MCs allow for mistakes; DCs bestow greater durability, while MC makes it harder for them to hit you/gives you more "ammo".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Snidely hit the nail on the head, which is why sensory is almost completely useless in middle\end game. At this stage, it's pretty much decided who controls what already, and it's just a fight for more ground.
So, sensory is only really useful in the opening of the game, as first chamber. Well-placed sensory chambers make it virtually impossible for marines to take an area.
There's a serious catch, however: they have to be placed properly, they have to be placed in sufficient quantitiy to be useful, and they have to be taken advantage of properly. That means dropping a single SC at the hive is ludicrous, and will probably cost you the game. However, putting two or three sensories in double res hidden in hard-to-reach places will make it damn near impossible for the marines to dislodge you from there.
The thing is, sensory first is easily screwed over. It requires a LOT of chambers to be dropped, really early on in the game, to be effective. You need to cover every vital area of the map right at the start, because you won't have a chance to do so later on. That means twin res, the hives, and any other areas of strategic importance. This puts you at a disadvantage of not having a lot of res to drop RCs and OCs, but (if, say, everyone on the team uses their resources to SC a vital area) it gives you an incredible combat advantage which the marines cannot negate in the early stages.
Anyway, the major problem with sensory is that it's an all-or-nothing tactic. It cannot help you break a two-hive lockdown. It does not matter if you control all the resource nodes on the map - you will have an extremely difficult time trying to break the marines' hold on one of your hives using only hive 1 aliens which are, for all intents and purposes, completely unupgraded. Let's be realistic, folks: sensory upgrades do nothing for you in a fight.
So... yes. I can see it being a viable tactic for clan games, or for any other time when the whole team is coordinated and organised. Or it's viable if the marines aren't all that good (but then, any tactic is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). But for general pubbing, it's a Bad Idea because it's never done right.
Only if the marines have been absoluty idiots and left no base defense. Plus you can do this with def or mov as well, in fact, you can do it much much better with def or mov because if they do have base defenses, you can use your upgrades to tear through them.
Sense first just doesn't work. I've very rarely seen a win when the aliens have grabbed sensory as 1st or 2nd chamber.
Everyone loves cloaking, but it is just limited due to direct counters to it.
A nuke on a nuclear scientist is a deadly weapon. A nuke on a farmer's hand is a paperweight. This works both ways with marine and aliens. Depending which of the team is more of a 'scientist', that team will benefit from cloaking.
However, a gun on both a scientist and farmer's hand is a considerable weapon....think about that on a public game level.
Sense first just doesn't work. I've very rarely seen a win when the aliens have grabbed sensory as 1st or 2nd chamber. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is that with scent of fear you can <b>be in another room and watch marine movement</b> . You see that they are far enough away then BAM you tear the place apart while they are too far away from a phase to make a difference.
I fail to see how defense or movement can give you this ability.
My teams win almost all our sensory first games. It just takes a little patience and self control to make the most out of sensory first.
Also to be effectively used it requires that the team spend lots of res placing sensory chambers all round the map, which is something of an attrition.
In short I think its fun at the start, but really comes back to bite you in the **** mid-game.
What a complete non sequitur.
A nuke on a nuclear scientist is a deadly weapon. A nuke on a farmer's hand is a paperweight. This works both ways with marine and aliens. Depending which of the team is more of a 'scientist', that team will benefit from cloaking.
However, a gun on both a scientist and farmer's hand is a considerable weapon....think about that on a public game level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is on a pub sever, the guns4back2school sever.
Died? With MCs you're right back there no matter where you spawned. Without... 50% chance of being in the fray or having to make it on foot and hope it's not too late by the time you get there =s
It also helps in putting up the 3rd hive; if the hive gets attacked while it's gestating you can all MC in to defend the growing hive.
SCs are fun and stuff but until they get the 3rd upgrade and it proves useful it's a 2 upgrade chamber compared to the other 3 upgraders regardless of what it does.
Wait there are two G4B2S servers aren't there? Which one? I play on the 26 Player one.