Stomp is fine. An Onos costs 100 res, it should be able to beat the stuffing out of most small groups and ANY individual. People complaining about stomp being overpowered are actually getting owned by teamwork *gasp*. I have never seen stomp kill a single person and if alone stomp will only allow the onos time for maybe one extra kill before he either has to flee, die, or get redeemed. Additionally, if you are seeing several oni, your team has already done something seriously wrong anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Oct 21 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Oct 21 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stomp is fine. An Onos costs 100 res, it should be able to beat the stuffing out of most small groups and ANY individual. People complaining about stomp being overpowered are actually getting owned by teamwork *gasp*. I have never seen stomp kill a single person and if alone stomp will only allow the onos time for maybe one extra kill before he either has to flee, die, or get redeemed. Additionally, if you are seeing several oni, your team has already done something seriously wrong anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It takes one adren (hell, you don't even need adren) to keep the marines pinned down forever. It is a tad rediculous. Skulks end up munching HA's.
sure stomp is cheap especially when some people like me abuse it and give the underlings like skulks free kills when i stomp spam the marines but an onos without celerity is good as dead besides im a good onos and alot of people run when i go onos in certain servers but i have been killed 3-4 times by a big group of 5 HA/HMGS with lvl 3 weapons and stomp did work but i still got owned <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Oct 21 2003, 09:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Oct 21 2003, 09:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stomp is fine. An Onos costs 100 res, it should be able to beat the stuffing out of most small groups and ANY individual. People complaining about stomp being overpowered are actually getting owned by teamwork *gasp*. I have never seen stomp kill a single person and if alone stomp will only allow the onos time for maybe one extra kill before he either has to flee, die, or get redeemed. Additionally, if you are seeing several oni, your team has already done something seriously wrong anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That team work owns me? Oh you mean when I'm walking with 5 other HAs and an Onos pops around the corner, stomps and devours me or one of my team mates only to come back and repeat the cycle over and over again? Yes I was owned by the team work right there, fool. A single onos should be able to talk out any individual but it should not be able to take out an entire HA train, atleast not with incredible ease. A 2 hive onos is incredibly powerful. If you're a good skulk, you can go onos in about 8 mins and end the game about 2 minutes later. It's just too powerful of a class.
I have never seen a lone onos, stomp, devour a HA, and gore all 5 other HA and trot away a happy camper. If that is the case on the server you are playing on, you should find a different server to play on. Additionally, calling me a fool only displays your immaturity. If you meant to say you have seen an onos stomp devoure a HA and have skulks help him take out the rest of the HA train, then perhaps you need to check the definition of teamwork. In closing, calling a person names only weakens your arguement and makes peple not bother reading the rest of your post.
Forlorn, it is no more ridiculous than HA's getting repaired insanely fast by welders, or carpets of med spam that can keep a LA marine alive almost indefinitely.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Well, regardless, if it's all about teamwork, why does Stomp preclude that teamwork winning out?
I can have a train of 6 HA, covering, moving carefully, welding, covering each other. Oh, there's one mass stomping Oni while his skulk buddies run in, doesn't matter how good your marines are, they've been overpowered. And only because of that one ability, not due to amazing teamwork by the kharaa.
It no more precludes teamwork than 30-40 medpacks laying on the floor of a room, allowing one LA/LMG Marine to kill 5-6 skulks alone. And one LA/LMG marine with that many medpacks costs less than an Onos and you will see that happen alot sooner than an Onos to boot. Both sides have their "cheap" tatics. "Cheap" is in the eye of the beholder, I don't see it as a problem.
I just find it kinda odd that you get so many complaints about a 100 res behemoth stunning people when there's 10 res creatures capable of webbing you for the same effect. Go figure <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It no more precludes teamwork than 30-40 medpacks laying on the floor of a room, allowing one LA/LMG Marine to kill 5-6 skulks alone. And one LA/LMG marine with that many medpacks costs less than an Onos and you will see that happen alot sooner than an Onos to boot<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>three</b> (Because I wrote 2, like a nub) reasons why it does. o It came with a team res cost, meaning keeping that marine alive hurt the team, unlike the Oni who only hurts himself in res. o The aliens in your example lost 5-6 free skulks, not 200 rez of Heavy Armour & gear o The medpacks are non resusable resources. You spend the rez, you get a medpack, it gets used or not, it disappears. The Oni can then go on to trash your now resource starved base, or kill all your RT's while you get the team back & re-equip.
Geminosity : Simply put, it doesn't happen as often, due to direct webbing being fairly uncommon in 2.xx, and 3 hives also being not so common anymore.
Ahhh, but if those skulks were killed defending the only open hive it can just as easily be the game ender for the aliens. Additionally. If that was your only onos, it wil certainly be a detriment to the team should he die (he no more or less hurts himself in the res department than dieing with HA hurts the marines). It really is quite similar on both sides. And it wasn't like the Onos was free either, saving 100 res takes awhile and is quite an investment. If the onos was as powerful as he was in 1.XX, I'd agree with you. But in 2.XX you see oni dieing all the time.
I think alot of this "cheap tatic" is carry over from peoples time playing DM where skill is the only factor seperating opponents. This isn't DM and an Onos is supposed to be a beast to defeat. It isn't supposed to be a "fair fight" like people are used to in DM. Like was said in the past, no one complained that they lost 20 marines to an ultralisk in StarCraft. It is the same thing. Spread out your HA, have GL's in the back spamming over the top of the stunned marines and watch the onos flee.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spread out your HA, have GL's in the back spamming over the top of the stunned marines and watch the onos flee. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only bit I didn't agree with Torak. They're pick-off-tastic there. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the Stomp, I agree it shouldn't be fair, I just don't agree with the idea of an ability which is simply 'Click a button, negate 3 players' The idea is to reward both teamwork & skill, not "I'm joe nub, but I wh*red 100 rez, so I auto beat down these 4 HA/HMG"
I only meant not to keep shoulder-to-shoulder with the other HA's, keeping them about 2-3 paces apart should keep the Onos form stomping the entire train, while not exposing them to skulk swarming. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's a pleasure debating with people that don't fall back to "Eff j00 nub! Eye 0wn j00, ur teh suk!!111" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Shockwave, sorry but I think your wrong on a few small points there m8.
Im sure that most ppl reading these posts agree that a 100 res onos can and does hurt his team if he dies (or if he goes onos for that matter).
The dead skulks return some rfk and I doubt many ppl here would med spam or put there team in a position that required med spam if it ment that it cleared out all your remaining res. If that was the case then your in trouble anyway. Yes there are issues with onos and ranges (def with stomp) weve all been at the rough end of an onos stomp, gore or devour from a mile away thinking wth!!
In my mind it would the best be to perhaps shorten it a bit (2/3 of current) have it go out all ways but have it work on range effects i.e. closer targets stunned longest and targets further out sunned less.
or how about not firing for half of the stun, so that for a 1 second stun you cant fire for first .5 of a second then you can (kinda half recovery).
Both would work against the 'forever stomp' that is the main problem (however I would like to point out I think its not too bad as is tbh lol)
Shout rant and rave if ya must... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh and the whole "don't get ono get close to you", its BS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's really no more BS than the suggested counter to the Marine end-game turret farming (dont let them do it my arse). and the End game situation i mentioned is often just as deadly to the onos, as the onos are to HA... If anything were chaznged, i'd say the height of the shock wave, and make it more like an actual shockwave (just a single wave), so that jumping is a viable counter-tactic.
Stomp is most certainly overpowered, anyone claiming it isn't is either ignorant or likes playing alien a lot and doesn't want it changed. There are many reasons stomp is overpowered (the single skill negating teamwork as mentioned many times in this thread) but the worst thing i see abused daily is the fact that stomp travels over open air spaces and has a ridiculous z-axis range. Marines standing up on a railing can get hit by stomp that came from across the room over a huge canyon. A good example is onos stunning a marine who is building the Eternal Requiem res on lost at a slanted angle as he enters the room. Using the stun to go across the open chasm. This affects parts of nearly every map that exists and it makes playing against cheap players a real pain in the ****.
Its almost as annoying as the gorge bile bomb uncounterable crap in atmos on bast, another instance where a single skill defeats teamplay. (But only in certain situations and only in this specific instance. Im not saying bile bome is overpowered, even tho it is)
I think stomp should have three effects: <ul> <li>an earthquake like effect, lasting about 1-2 seconds, should be really strong, so you can't effectively target an enemy <li>a TFC conc nade like effect, a bit stronger than in TFC, lasting for 5-10 seconds <li>halving the marines movement speed (as they are now tumbling around) maybe for 3+ seconds </ul> Range of stomp would be the same, maybe lessen the adren usage a bit (cuz it doesn't take those marines out 100%)
Edit: The effects could be lessend if you are further away from the stomping onos...
<!--QuoteBegin--^Requiem^+Oct 21 2003, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (^Requiem^ @ Oct 21 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im not saying bile bome is overpowered, even tho it is <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> er this doesn't make sense <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, I agree stomp is quite overpowered. It forces marines to be very well spaced, not in a line, yet having good cover of one another. Jumping the stomp needs a good timing and is quite hard to get right. In an HA train, one onos can immobilize the entire team and just keep on stomping. If the marine team decides to space themselves out, they are somewhat less powerful (the first and last aren't as well protected) Jetpacks might be a good idea, but they have already been stomped even when flying (dont ask how, they just... did) And everyone knows that jetpacks get hit very high by oni, strangely.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ballisto+Oct 20 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ Oct 20 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i gotta say i think stomp is kind of a cheeze thing. an adren onos and a skulk can take out a train of heavies with this. i think itd be kind of better if the effects were more like the conc nade in tfc - slow you down and throw off your aim. what do you guys think? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is why Jetpacks are the Onos counter... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree that stomp makes the onos too powerful. It's basically a super weapon, albeit expensive one. There should be no unit in the game that should be both very powerful and very versatile. The onos serves as damage soaker, counters everything (except possibly JP), seige, and support. That's way too much, regardless of cost.
Simply put, the onos lacks enough counters. Look at the Frozen Throne: for every unit, there are at least 2 counters. That's strategic depth.
The same case can be made for HA, so I think both onos and HA need to be nerfed.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Oct 21 2003, 10:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Oct 21 2003, 10:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dearest Dead Dan,
I have never seen a lone onos, stomp, devour a HA, and gore all 5 other HA and trot away a happy camper. If that is the case on the server you are playing on, you should find a different server to play on. Additionally, calling me a fool only displays your immaturity. If you meant to say you have seen an onos stomp devoure a HA and have skulks help him take out the rest of the HA train, then perhaps you need to check the definition of teamwork. In closing, calling a person names only weakens your arguement and makes peple not bother reading the rest of your post.
Forlorn, it is no more ridiculous than HA's getting repaired insanely fast by welders, or carpets of med spam that can keep a LA marine alive almost indefinitely. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right calling you a fool was a mistake, I second guessed it after I typed it put but did nothing, I'm sorry. However, the statement that people who complain stomp is overpowered are getting owned by teamwork was a pretty ignorant thing to say. I play aliens 95%(Skulk for life!) of the time and I know that it is overpowered not only from actually using it but being along side oni that use it heavily. To stop one person is very fair and fine, but to stop an entire train, for a signifigant amount of time (yes a few seconds is a long time) is absurd. I've seen Oni take down entire HA trains multiple times on very respectable servers like r5 and h20. The Onos is way, way too powerfull for the price tag it has.
<!--QuoteBegin--jabs+Oct 20 2003, 06:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jabs @ Oct 20 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If a ha train is careless enough to let an onos get close enough to them to do this or walk in a next to perfectly straight line while moving to a hive or the comm doesn't warn them of an onos, correct me if I'm wrong but they deserve to get stomped, eaten, gored, etc. I could understand that a sensory chamber could affect their line of view, but if they have ha, they should have mt and be able to avoid things like this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, an Onos can just run around a corner and use stomp and run back and repeat. Stomp is supposed to counter HA, do you think an Onos can take out HA without stomp? No. I can name several tactic's and way's to counter an Onos on the top of my head. Stop complaining, NS 2.01 is balanced.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
Stomp is only overpowered for those who do not know how to play against it. It is probably the only thing that can stop a heavy armor train, other than snares (webs dragged across marines as they pass through an area). Thing is that there are no snares at two hives, so if you face a HA train with two hives then you can usually say GG. Stomp can be worked around by marines, the only thing that is required is to stop blaming everything on stomp being overpowered - and that is very hard to do for certain people.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stomp is only overpowered for those who do not know how to play against it. It is probably the only thing that can stop a heavy armor train, other than snares (webs dragged across marines as they pass through an area). Thing is that there are no snares at two hives, so if you face a HA train with two hives then you can usually say GG. Stomp can be worked around by marines, the only thing that is required is to stop blaming everything on stomp being overpowered - and that is very hard to do for certain people.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im so sick of all you newbies claiming that **** like this is balanced, stomp is to powerfull so S.T.F.U NOOB.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Mythr1l+Oct 21 2003, 04:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mythr1l @ Oct 21 2003, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stomp is only overpowered for those who do not know how to play against it. It is probably the only thing that can stop a heavy armor train, other than snares (webs dragged across marines as they pass through an area). Thing is that there are no snares at two hives, so if you face a HA train with two hives then you can usually say GG. Stomp can be worked around by marines, the only thing that is required is to stop blaming everything on stomp being overpowered - and that is very hard to do for certain people.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im so sick of all you newbies claiming that **** like this is balanced, stomp is to powerfull so S.T.F.U NOOB. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Apparently, you are the noob.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Wow, never realised everyone was so emotional about this.
Possibly, it comes from the lack of counters, rather than the power of Stomp? I think Stomp is a trifle too easy to wh*re basically, but regardless, the fact is currently there is no proper counter. JP is a farce, due to the way NS maps simply are designed. (There's very few places you can escape the Oni, and the Oni can just...well...wander off, and ignore you. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and mass shotguns is like saying "Well, they have sticks, what's an appropriate counter? Nuclear tactical strike." As for this..........
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always feel everything should be 'in character' for the race, to make it an appropriate counter, hence my hatred of WC3 and such things as offensive towering. (Which is one thing I like about NS, this rarely works) So... just no, really. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can name several tactic's and way's to counter an Onos on the top of my head. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By all means, do so. Help us become wise in the ways of the force, oh not sure about his forum title man. (Sig says one, group says another.)
N.B Sure, some uppity sorts would take that as flamebait, but I know you're too big for that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Oct 21 2003, 11:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Oct 21 2003, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, it is no more ridiculous than HA's getting repaired insanely fast by welders, or carpets of med spam that can keep a LA marine alive almost indefinitely. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a HUGE difference between stomp spam vs. med spam or even HA welding each other...
Stomp spam takes 0 skill, but med spam requires skill esp. spending 40 res on one marine and not missing with a single one, and welding an HA takes skill in the fact that you first have to kill off the attackers before you can weld each other, plus reload. HA are slow, plz remember.
I'm not saying stomp needs to go, I'm saying it needs to be changed. This crap of where it hits you and you have to go: "HEY LOOK AT ME EAT/KILL ME PLZ" is retarded and kills fun out of the game.
Stomp should do something so the marines have a harder time fighting back, not so that they <b>can't</b> fight back.
Comments
It takes one adren (hell, you don't even need adren) to keep the marines pinned down forever. It is a tad rediculous. Skulks end up munching HA's.
That team work owns me? Oh you mean when I'm walking with 5 other HAs and an Onos pops around the corner, stomps and devours me or one of my team mates only to come back and repeat the cycle over and over again? Yes I was owned by the team work right there, fool. A single onos should be able to talk out any individual but it should not be able to take out an entire HA train, atleast not with incredible ease. A 2 hive onos is incredibly powerful. If you're a good skulk, you can go onos in about 8 mins and end the game about 2 minutes later. It's just too powerful of a class.
It anything it should stop you from moving, but you can still keep shooting.
I have never seen a lone onos, stomp, devour a HA, and gore all 5 other HA and trot away a happy camper. If that is the case on the server you are playing on, you should find a different server to play on. Additionally, calling me a fool only displays your immaturity. If you meant to say you have seen an onos stomp devoure a HA and have skulks help him take out the rest of the HA train, then perhaps you need to check the definition of teamwork. In closing, calling a person names only weakens your arguement and makes peple not bother reading the rest of your post.
Forlorn, it is no more ridiculous than HA's getting repaired insanely fast by welders, or carpets of med spam that can keep a LA marine alive almost indefinitely.
I can have a train of 6 HA, covering, moving carefully, welding, covering each other. Oh, there's one mass stomping Oni while his skulk buddies run in, doesn't matter how good your marines are, they've been overpowered. And only because of that one ability, not due to amazing teamwork by the kharaa.
<b>three</b> (Because I wrote 2, like a nub) reasons why it does.
o It came with a team res cost, meaning keeping that marine alive hurt the team, unlike the Oni who only hurts himself in res.
o The aliens in your example lost 5-6 free skulks, not 200 rez of Heavy Armour & gear
o The medpacks are non resusable resources. You spend the rez, you get a medpack, it gets used or not, it disappears. The Oni can then go on to trash your now resource starved base, or kill all your RT's while you get the team back & re-equip.
Geminosity : Simply put, it doesn't happen as often, due to direct webbing being fairly uncommon in 2.xx, and 3 hives also being not so common anymore.
I think alot of this "cheap tatic" is carry over from peoples time playing DM where skill is the only factor seperating opponents. This isn't DM and an Onos is supposed to be a beast to defeat. It isn't supposed to be a "fair fight" like people are used to in DM. Like was said in the past, no one complained that they lost 20 marines to an ultralisk in StarCraft. It is the same thing. Spread out your HA, have GL's in the back spamming over the top of the stunned marines and watch the onos flee.
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The only bit I didn't agree with Torak. They're pick-off-tastic there. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the Stomp, I agree it shouldn't be fair, I just don't agree with the idea of an ability which is simply 'Click a button, negate 3 players' The idea is to reward both teamwork & skill, not "I'm joe nub, but I wh*red 100 rez, so I auto beat down these 4 HA/HMG"
It's a pleasure debating with people that don't fall back to "Eff j00 nub! Eye 0wn j00, ur teh suk!!111" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im sure that most ppl reading these posts agree that a 100 res onos can and does hurt his team if he dies (or if he goes onos for that matter).
The dead skulks return some rfk and I doubt many ppl here would med spam or put there team in a position that required med spam if it ment that it cleared out all your remaining res. If that was the case then your in trouble anyway.
Yes there are issues with onos and ranges (def with stomp) weve all been at the rough end of an onos stomp, gore or devour from a mile away thinking wth!!
In my mind it would the best be to perhaps shorten it a bit (2/3 of current) have it go out all ways but have it work on range effects i.e. closer targets stunned longest and targets further out sunned less.
or how about not firing for half of the stun, so that for a 1 second stun you cant fire for first .5 of a second then you can (kinda half recovery).
Both would work against the 'forever stomp' that is the main problem (however I would like to point out I think its not too bad as is tbh lol)
Shout rant and rave if ya must... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's really no more BS than the suggested counter to the Marine end-game turret farming (dont let them do it my arse). and the End game situation i mentioned is often just as deadly to the onos, as the onos are to HA... If anything were chaznged, i'd say the height of the shock wave, and make it more like an actual shockwave (just a single wave), so that jumping is a viable counter-tactic.
Its almost as annoying as the gorge bile bomb uncounterable crap in atmos on bast, another instance where a single skill defeats teamplay. (But only in certain situations and only in this specific instance. Im not saying bile bome is overpowered, even tho it is)
<ul>
<li>an earthquake like effect, lasting about 1-2 seconds, should be really strong, so you can't effectively target an enemy
<li>a TFC conc nade like effect, a bit stronger than in TFC, lasting for 5-10 seconds
<li>halving the marines movement speed (as they are now tumbling around) maybe for 3+ seconds
</ul>
Range of stomp would be the same, maybe lessen the adren usage a bit (cuz it doesn't take those marines out 100%)
Edit: The effects could be lessend if you are further away from the stomping onos...
er this doesn't make sense <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, I agree stomp is quite overpowered. It forces marines to be very well spaced, not in a line, yet having good cover of one another. Jumping the stomp needs a good timing and is quite hard to get right. In an HA train, one onos can immobilize the entire team and just keep on stomping. If the marine team decides to space themselves out, they are somewhat less powerful (the first and last aren't as well protected)
Jetpacks might be a good idea, but they have already been stomped even when flying (dont ask how, they just... did) And everyone knows that jetpacks get hit very high by oni, strangely.
Which is why Jetpacks are the Onos counter... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Simply put, the onos lacks enough counters. Look at the Frozen Throne: for every unit, there are at least 2 counters. That's strategic depth.
The same case can be made for HA, so I think both onos and HA need to be nerfed.
i would also like to see a post clearly stating every point that has been said in this thread
I have never seen a lone onos, stomp, devour a HA, and gore all 5 other HA and trot away a happy camper. If that is the case on the server you are playing on, you should find a different server to play on. Additionally, calling me a fool only displays your immaturity. If you meant to say you have seen an onos stomp devoure a HA and have skulks help him take out the rest of the HA train, then perhaps you need to check the definition of teamwork. In closing, calling a person names only weakens your arguement and makes peple not bother reading the rest of your post.
Forlorn, it is no more ridiculous than HA's getting repaired insanely fast by welders, or carpets of med spam that can keep a LA marine alive almost indefinitely. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right calling you a fool was a mistake, I second guessed it after I typed it put but did nothing, I'm sorry. However, the statement that people who complain stomp is overpowered are getting owned by teamwork was a pretty ignorant thing to say. I play aliens 95%(Skulk for life!) of the time and I know that it is overpowered not only from actually using it but being along side oni that use it heavily. To stop one person is very fair and fine, but to stop an entire train, for a signifigant amount of time (yes a few seconds is a long time) is absurd. I've seen Oni take down entire HA trains multiple times on very respectable servers like r5 and h20. The Onos is way, way too powerfull for the price tag it has.
You know, an Onos can just run around a corner and use stomp and run back and repeat.
Stomp is supposed to counter HA, do you think an Onos can take out HA without stomp? No.
I can name several tactic's and way's to counter an Onos on the top of my head.
Stop complaining, NS 2.01 is balanced.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so
Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized
JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing
Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so
Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized
JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing
Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing.
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Im so sick of all you newbies claiming that **** like this is balanced, stomp is to powerfull so S.T.F.U NOOB.
Stomp beats off pure HA trains in certain environments, and rightfully so
Other environments, HA can find appropriate cover so not all individuals get immobilized
JP/HMG can distract the Onos while HA train rolls in and does its thing
Suppressive nades will halve the Onos's hitpoints, making it think twice about continuing with the stomp
Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing.
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Im so sick of all you newbies claiming that **** like this is balanced, stomp is to powerfull so S.T.F.U NOOB. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apparently, you are the noob.
Possibly, it comes from the lack of counters, rather than the power of Stomp? I think Stomp is a trifle too easy to wh*re basically, but regardless, the fact is currently there is no proper counter. JP is a farce, due to the way NS maps simply are designed. (There's very few places you can escape the Oni, and the Oni can just...well...wander off, and ignore you. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and mass shotguns is like saying "Well, they have sticks, what's an appropriate counter? Nuclear tactical strike." As for this..........
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then there are creative things to do, like acrobatics for example: walk on top of your fellow HA partner's helmet - sure, it takes some practice, but it looks awsome. Then when the Onos stomps, you can stop it and other lifeforms from advancing.
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I always feel everything should be 'in character' for the race, to make it an appropriate counter, hence my hatred of WC3 and such things as offensive towering. (Which is one thing I like about NS, this rarely works) So... just no, really. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can name several tactic's and way's to counter an Onos on the top of my head.
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By all means, do so. Help us become wise in the ways of the force, oh not sure about his forum title man. (Sig says one, group says another.)
N.B Sure, some uppity sorts would take that as flamebait, but I know you're too big for that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is a HUGE difference between stomp spam vs. med spam or even HA welding each other...
Stomp spam takes 0 skill, but med spam requires skill esp. spending 40 res on one marine and not missing with a single one, and welding an HA takes skill in the fact that you first have to kill off the attackers before you can weld each other, plus reload. HA are slow, plz remember.
I'm not saying stomp needs to go, I'm saying it needs to be changed. This crap of where it hits you and you have to go: "HEY LOOK AT ME EAT/KILL ME PLZ" is retarded and kills fun out of the game.
Stomp should do something so the marines have a harder time fighting back, not so that they <b>can't</b> fight back.