The mere reading of the regular's and even admin's opinion on this topic makes me shiver in anger and fear. The huge progress in sexual education and sexual freedom is going to be destroyed , we're turning back to medieval ideologies.
The Church does indirectly claim that sex is evil. Why else would anyone need to ask God for a "sex-pass" by getting officially married ? The Church treats sex like a drug , something that must be controlled. Something that doesn't belong to you. Your body doesn't belong to you , God needs it to produce children , that's not supposed to be a pleasure , a joy , a relief : it's a <i>duty</i>... the urges you feel when seeing someone of the opposite sex is not natural , it's a <i>temptation</i> , it is evil. Everyone is possessed by evil and should feel guilty , that's why one needs so much to ask God for forgiveness.
So the right thing to do is not to live naturally , to have sex with the people you love because it brings pleasure to both , it is to obey orders. Orders from the Church that claims theses are taken directly from God's words. God only wants you to have children , not to enjoy yourself on this planet. You're here to pray Him all day and teach your many children to have faith in Him , even if you can't feed them properly. If they die early , they got a place in Heaven anyways.
Condoms are a product of human pride. What ! you thought you could have sex without fear of catching a STD ? What ! you thought you could decide wether or not you would have children when having sex ! Blasphemy ! God is supposed to decide for you.
FACT : people have a right to do anything they want in the privacy of their homes. Sex outside marriage is only illegal on the most fundamentalist countries like Saudi Arabia.
FACT : the condom is 99.9% effective at stopping STDs of any kind , including HIV , if used properly.
Now , for thoses 10% people not smart enough to use them , what's the best choice... abstain from having sex outside marriage and hope their wife will show perfect fidelity , blindly obeying orders from the "wiser" people ruling the Church ? Or learn how to use it properly and know how to have decent sexual relations , through sexual education , to enjoy their sexual freedom ?
Hypocrisy needs to be wiped (if not flammed) out of theses forums. I challenge all you religious types to clearly state that sex is not intrinsically evil , and prove that your anti-condom rethoric is right.
I have no problems with God , and anyone's beliefs , as long as they don't threaten the freedoms of others. The next generation's education is a terribly important matter. I fear for the future of theses children... believe in anything you like , but <b><i>let them live how they like</i></b>.
I'll rise to that challenge - sex is not evil. Sex is good, it is good for the body, it is good for the relationship. I believe it was designed to both feel good and bind couples together, and within the boundaries of a stable married relationship, sex is pure goodness - just as it was designed. So there, sex is not evil.
Now if you had read the original statement - and maybe you did and just got carried away, or if you had read all the replies, you would notice no one here is for banning the condom, we just support the idea that maybe you can suggest on that packet of rubbers that their just might be a better way of doing things.
"Blindly obeying orders from those wiser than us in the Church?"
bleh - been said before, been debunked. EDITED - too harsh.
Ryo - what do you mean what whirlwind? Got Social issues? Teenage mothers etc
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Oct 16 2003, 04:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Oct 16 2003, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I think abstinence is a great thing to teach kids... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For the record, what I meant by this is the following: "I believe abstinence is admirable, and should be taught as the only 100% effective method of birth control and STD-prevention." However, I also believe that education should also include general sex-related topics, including other forms of birth control/STD prevention.
For the record the HIV levels have plummeted since sexual education has been implemented in America, the point I am making, and the article Coil quoted is making, is that in places like Africa where HIV and AIDS is rampant there is no strong base for education, actually quite the opposite is happening and the Catholic Church is completely discouraging African citizens from using condoms.
As far as teenage pregnancy goes it does have something to do with the fact a lot of young Latinos are raised in very strict relegious homes, in may be an un-PC thing to say but it's true.
And before you ask what that has to do with anything I don't know of many parents who would openly talk with their kids about parents, much less extremly relegious ones, and only a few would go so far as to actually give their children protection.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Oct 16 2003, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Oct 16 2003, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record the HIV levels have plummeted since sexual education has been implemented in America, the point I am making, and the article Coil quoted is making, is that in places like Africa where HIV and AIDS is rampant there is no strong base for education, actually quite the opposite is happening and the Catholic Church is completely discouraging African citizens from using condoms.
As far as teenage pregnancy goes it does have something to do with the fact a lot of young Latinos are raised in very strict relegious homes, in may be an un-PC thing to say but it's true.
And before you ask what that has to do with anything I don't know of many parents who would openly talk with their kids about parents, much less extremly relegious ones, and only a few would go so far as to actually give their children protection. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, HIV levels have plummeted, exactly as I would have predicted. Fooled by the likes of Kinsey etc, we all leapt onto the sexual revolution with the "everyone's doing it its natural" bs, and along with that came the proliferation of STDs, family breakdowns, teenage pregnancies, teenage suicide etc
And then science caught up and started promoting the condom a lot to counter this problem, and its working. But I still think that continues to give the wrong message - the only thing wrong with premarital sex is that you might get a disease or pregnant. Thats just not true, there is so much more involved in it emotionally that its really hard to quantify. And now the Western world is so saturated in the "You're just an animal hump like there is no tomorrow" attitude, the condom is really the only form of damage control left.
And if you are an African and you have the spare change to spend on condoms, then I would suggest that you would be educated enough to realise the extreme danger screwing anyone and everyone puts you in. Africans are generally poor and illeducated, it simply isnt worth flooding them with free condoms and spending massive amounts of money on education for them. When you are below the poverty line, getting an STD (if you even know it exists) just doesnt seem to worry you that much.
The root cause of the African STD problem lies in infidelity and promiscurity. The husbands go out, screw hookers/other peoples wives etc, then bring it home to their wife. Given the stats, most of these men are already infected, and they obviously dont care about anyone else, so why would they start wearing a condom now?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we all leapt onto the sexual revolution with the "everyone's doing it its natural" bs, and along with that came the proliferation of STDs, family breakdowns, teenage pregnancies, teenage suicide etc <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Sex is natural</b>. Few things are more natural. This is an absolutly undeniable fact.
Having multiple partners is someone's choice, and if they don't take the care to ensure that their partner(s) don't have STDs then they run the risk of contracting them. The same way that if you go to an African jungle and don't take precautions against malaria, don't be surprised if you contract it.
Out of all the problems you list there, 3 can be solved with contraception. Condoms arn't foolproof, that's true, but they're a hell of a lot better than doing it unprotected. If the woman takes the pill and the man uses condoms you need a divine miracle to fall pregnant. STDs have a much, much lower chance of getting contracted when contraception is used. There's a chance they'll fail, but there's also a chance for instance that immunization will fail. Does that mean we should give up on immunization and go back to the good old days of mass plagues devestating entire countries?
Children being born to parents who arn't ready for the responability or who are unable to care for their child is a bad thing. Contraception stops that. I would say that yeah, children can cause marriages to fail, but contraception doesn't. Teenage pregnancies, again the same thing.
Now as for teenage suicide, yes falling pregnant will likely do this. Who's fault is that? The values of society? No. There's nothing wrong with young people exploring their sexual nature. It's healthy and natural. However, if you don't use contraception you're being irresponsible and rather stupid. It's your own fault for not taking precautions if you fall pregnant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only thing wrong with premarital sex is that you might get a disease or pregnant. Thats just not true, there is so much more involved in it emotionally that its really hard to quantify. And now the Western world is so saturated in the "You're just an animal hump like there is no tomorrow" attitude, the condom is really the only form of damage control left. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We consider teenagers of a certain age to be able to drive, sometimes drink or smoke, take out bank loans ect. It's their choice if they want to enter into a sexual relationship, and they're mature enough to make that choice. Now if they made the wrong choice and that relationship breaks up, that is part of life. It's much easier to break up a relationship than it is a marriage. Under your system, two people meet up, get along with one another but can't go any further because they must get married. So they do, but it turns out after a few months that they're incompatable. They want to break up, but now they have to go through mountains of costly legal work. Now if those people had been free to carry on with a sexual relationship outside of marriage, they would have gone their seperate ways, emotionally saddened for sure but a lot wiser and with a lot less hassle and fuss.
Teaching children and teenagers that sex is a dirty, filthy thing that is only to be used for procreation is far more emotionally damaging. <b>I know this from first hand experiance</b>. Now I am not advocating that we teach teenagers to bonk everything they see. But I am advocating that when they do enter into a sexual relationship, they should feel comfortable with their sexual nature.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I challenge all you religious types to clearly state that sex is not intrinsically evil , and prove that your anti- condom rethoric is right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's ask <a href='http://www.ccli.org/marriage/johnpaul_sexuality.shtml' target='_blank'>the Pope</a>: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is here a real need for sexual education, and it must be a continuous process. The main objective of this education is to create the conviction that ‘the other person is more important than I’. Such conviction will not arise suddenly and from nothing, merely on the basis of physical intercourse. It can only be, must be, the result of an integral education in love. Sexual intercourse itself does not teach love, but love, if it is a genuine virtue, will show itself to be so in sexual relations between married people as elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By the way: Happy 25th Anniversary, John Paul II! <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sex is natural<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Keep in mind that this term has different connotations in the theological context. You can't reduce it to animal-natural, because it always contains allusions to God's desired order of things, and man's free will is capable of violating this order.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Oct 16 2003, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Oct 16 2003, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record the HIV levels have plummeted since sexual education has been implemented in America, the point I am making, and the article Coil quoted is making, is that in places like Africa where HIV and AIDS is rampant there is no strong base for education, actually quite the opposite is happening and the Catholic Church is completely discouraging African citizens from using condoms. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember seeing flyers missionaries had handed out that said god protects you from HIV if you're married.
If religious figures concentrated entirely on <i>promoting</i> absteinance, instead of attacking contreception, they wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot with hollow-point irony. Nothing wrong with the idea of absteinance (assuming you're not trying to force it on anyone).
If the goal is to prevent underage pregnancys and STDs, the use of condoms and the idea of absteinance go hand in hand. If you're going to promote absteinance and attack the use of contraception in the same breath, you can't really claim that your motive is to prevent STDs.
I understand that many of the religious posters on this board probably don't attack the idea of contraception, but you can't deny that this is the general message being sent out by the Church (It's a catholic belief i think, although bare in mind that my source here is Monty Python's Meaning of Life). Attacking the use of contraception, even when promoting absteinance as an alternative, is more than likely going to result in more unsafe sex.
Honestly which of the Catholic ideals are more likely to be followed: Not having sex before marrige, or not using contraception? The first involves holding back a natural urge present in all men and women, the 2nd involves deciding not to go out in the rain and drive down to boots to buy a latex balloon.
Abstainence - fine, lovely, if people decide to save themselves for marrige i don't see why not. But you can't force this decision onto people and you have to acknowledge that plenty of people are still going to have sex before marrige. Given that fact, it doesn't help to present condoms as either 'against the will of god' or ineffective in a sense of 'not worth bothering with'.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you have to acknowledge that plenty of people are still going to have sex before marrige<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That, of course, is a very pragmatic way of looking at things. It's not the Christian way, though.
The Christian way is to establish an incredibly demanding set of ethics, saying: "This is the perfection you must strive for. You will fail because you're weak and sinful, but you must try nonetheless."
It's impossible for the Church to somehow come to terms with sin and say: "Well, if you absolutely <i>have</i> to sleep around, at least use a condom, ok?"
Although this would be a reasonable piece of advice, it's contradictory to expect it to come from the Catholic Church. Their job is to teach about ethical perfection, not give practical tips how to avoid STDs. That's just a side effect (although probably no coincidence).
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Oct 17 2003, 06:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Oct 17 2003, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you have to acknowledge that plenty of people are still going to have sex before marrige<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That, of course, is a very pragmatic way of looking at things. It's not the Christian way, though.
The Christian way is to establish an incredibly demanding set of ethics, saying: "This is the perfection you must strive for. You will fail because you're weak and sinful, but you must try nonetheless."
It's impossible for the Church to somehow come to terms with sin and say: "Well, if you absolutely <i>have</i> to sleep around, at least use a condom, ok?"
Although this would be a reasonable piece of advice, it's contradictory to expect it to come from the Catholic Church. Their job is to teach about ethical perfection, not give practical tips how to avoid STDs. That's just a side effect (although probably no coincidence). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've yet to see ethical perfection in effects... could you introduce me to a few saints right now ? They might be better at convincing me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Since the Church <b>knows</b> no human is perfect , it is criminal from its leaders to ignore the issue of STDs due to sex outside marriage.
There is no way to prevent sex outside marriage besides brainwashing the whole humankind. So it is total nonsense to criticize the other 99% effective ways of preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancies.
Oh and besides , an other important point : most STDs can be contracted through various other ways , and not only transfusion. I don't think sharing hepatitis and other diseases is a great way of reinforcing love...
Even christians like sex. Or they know(have heard) that it's really much fun. Now if you don't have sex before marriage you might end up in a relationship with bad sex. And t's a fact that a relationship without sex(or bad sex, samething), especially when the couple is young, is not going to last too long. Now either the couple tries out before getting married or they get divorced or they live in a relationship that is pure agony(big chunk of their love life is unusable) for them. Your pick.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<b><i>rolf</i></b> Dread. That's abit irrelevant if you love the person <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Oct 17 2003, 09:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Oct 17 2003, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b><i>rolf</i></b> Dread. That's abit irrelevant if you love the person <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Even though you would love the person you would have to masturbate for the rest of your life...or suffer the bad sex. Now how's that fun? You never get to experience good sex for the rest of your life and then when finally your wife dies when you are 60, your stuff(or staff or rod or tool, whatever) don't work as well as when you got married 40 years ago.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Bad sex doesnt exist in my book Dread <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> And even if you <i>suffer</i> bad sex, you could explain the thing to your partner and better it.
Epidemic, no it can't. Our society & major religion (again, USA here) teach us that Sex is wrong, that we shouldn't talk about it and such. Love can only take you so far, but what if the person is not willing to do X thing, when it's really just a simple little thing? or what if they just plain don't want sex? I have heard about couples in which one person is not intrested in sex (I just think they need to discover their sexuality) and the other is. The person intrested in sex is much more likely to go out and have an adulterous affair rather then suffer. And 40-50 years of the the same person might get a little old if they don't want to improve in the sack.
(using best point I can think of) When I broke up with my old girlfriend, it was partially because the sex wasn't...spontaneous. It wasn't any good. Sure, there was the physical good feeling but it didn't last. I met another girl, and sex with her was mind blowing. Now that I know what I like, I know what to look for, I won't have to wait until a marriage to find out if sex is all bad. Otherwise, i'd have to violate traditional Roman Catholic doctrine and...*gasp* get a divorce.
and I love being raised in a Unitarian household. A couple months ago my mother asked me if I needed some condoms, a few days before Riley came and stayed for a week <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Yeah, sure. If your relation ship was buildt on sex it will most likely fall apart (grats with your quadruple post btw. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) As it will not continue to be that spontaneous. Also we're talking about bad sex, not lack of said thing <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes there is such a thing as bad sex and relationships on either side of the spectrum, totally based on sex or toally lacking sex/quality sex, will fail. There is such a thing as a compatibility issue and we are all taught to be so scared of sex that it almost never comes right out in a relationship so usually one person is always suffering quietly or just cheating. Basically sometimes your partner is just not interested in you sexually and is afraid to say so or just using you for security, either way it isn't a relationship that merits marriage.
Also hormones play a large part in how you feel towards a person, your express want to have sex with them might make you feel like you are in complete head over heels love with them, do you really want to lose all interest in your parnter after you have sex with them for the first time and end up in a loveless marriage, or just get divorced?
*first shouts random vague curses in Covenant, Spanish, and Halo Marine talk at the general direction of college Firewall*
Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.
Yes, I know that if you base a relationship on sex it will fail, I know that ALL too well. but what if you already know your partner? what if you two just *click* mentally and for so long you had basically a very awkward ^almost^ boyfriend/girlfriend thing, even to the point where you ^almost^ hitched. That's what it was with Riley, and then we finally gave in, after 8 years of our little dance. *but that's not what i'm trying to say*
I can understand the catholic church's views that abstinence is the only way to remain 100% safe (well, that and make sure your first partner is your only partner, and vice-versa) but they also need to see that people aren't going to be able to resist their nature. (this is not meant as a joke, it's serious) Jesus did die for our sins, so that means we are, at the least, capable of sinning and not living perfect lives. Doesn't that mean that the Church should'nt say condoms are wrong, if they help you remain healthy, disease-free and not pregnant?
but I can see where the cardinal (whatever the guy is, Bishop, cardinal, he's Clergy) is coming from as Condoms aren't 100% effective but they do have a lot better chance of protecting then just going "commando" and praying for the best.
/edit I know what dr. D is saying. For a while me and riley were completely...awkward. We weren't sure what was right, what was wrong and we were both afraid to ask. Now that I got her to use AIM, she's finding it much easier to be open about herself and I am too
Ok.... 1. 9/10 times you can (and probably should) replace the noun "Christian" with "Catholic." 2. Ryo, fuer den lieben von Gott, capitalize the G in "God" when you are talking aboot the God of Judaism/Christianity. (It IS a proper noun after all.)
<u>Protestant Beliefs</u> (Yaaaaay, cheer)
The reason I feel why sex is for marriage because God only wants to protect us and abstinence is the only 100% way to go about not contracted some disease that makes it burn when you urinate. (Although I think penicillin works to clear that up.) Now, if everyone didn't practice abstinance and just went around having sex with anything with two legs (NO ANIMALS) and used a condom there is that .01% of it failing. There are 6 billion people however for the sake of this mathing thing lets say only 3 billion are capable of reproduction and have sex... 3,000,000,000 people * .01% = 30,000,000 infected. That's a lot of people. If people abstained we have 3,000,000,000 people * 0% = 0 infected. Yaaay. (0 people is good in this case...and this number excludes anyone that got AIDS from a blood transfusion..or something.)
Our opinion on condoms... Go for it! Sure beats taking some pill that might turn out to be rat poisoning because of a horrible mix-up at a pharmacy.
Our opinion on sex in general... Oral? Go for it! Anal? Why not? Vaginal? Of course! As long as it's in the safety of marriage, you're gold.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the Church knows no human is perfect , it is criminal from its leaders to ignore the issue of STDs due to sex outside marriage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This statement assumes that because it is a natural inclination to stick your **** into other people's orifices that we can't hold it in and is simply not true.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Our society & major religion (again, USA here) teach us that Sex is wrong,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Naaay! Sex is possibly the greatest thing ever (though I am yet to find oot for myself) and is perfectly O.K. to talk about freely...Except in front of 9 year olds. They may not appreciate that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's what it was with Riley<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this "Riley" you speak of?
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Even christians like sex. Or they know(have heard) that it's really much fun. Now if you don't have sex before marriage you might end up in a relationship with bad sex. And t's a fact that a relationship without sex(or bad sex, samething), especially when the couple is young, is not going to last too long. Now either the couple tries out before getting married or they get divorced or they live in a relationship that is pure agony(big chunk of their love life is unusable) for them. Your pick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What I really meant was, you have never had sex before in your life, but you have wanted it your whole life. Now you meet a wonderful lass and you fall in love with her and marry her. Now my question/point is, how the **** can the sex be bad? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Is it better than the go and have sex and drugs til' you reach the panic age and realize you need someone?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You stop wanting sex, how can that be bad?
Also, I'm curious, you're in college but you have had your girlfriend (current one?) for 8 years. Did you meet her when you were 10? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There's some weird misconception that sex is the same bewteen everyone, beleive it or not it varies from person to person, and if you end up married to someone who your more or less incompatible with because of relegious reasons you're going to have problems.
Crisqo, maybe if you actually read people's posts you'd understand that Riley is my girlfriend (and when I get enough money/time/out of college my fiancee/wife)
Epidemic, trust me, sex is not the same for everyone. Every person has a different...feel to them. Some people may not like the way person X feels when they are in bed, while other people prefer it. It's not until you actually have sex that you find out if you like the way person X feels.
If you ever stop wanting sex (when your young) usually that's a sign of something seriously wrong. A Human's sole purpose is to go out into the world, find a mate, create a mini-version of its self and die. That's it. No philosophical bullcrap, no deep down stuff. We are, in essence, animals. What we do after breeding doesn't matter for jack so long as we have healthy offspring. The thing is, i'm not ready to pass on my genes and then be content to die. So back to the purpose of this paragraph. If you stop wanting sex, it is usually a sign of something wrong with your body. It usually means your sick, in some way shape or form (not mentally) and your body is turning down the hormonal drive so that you don't pass on bad genes.
and me and Riley haven't been "together" together for 8 years. That's just how long the courtship lasted. It wasn't until I turned 18 (Dec 10th 2002) that the relationship turned physical. We also knew each other when we were 6, my little sister was alive and she had cancer. We've been through thick and thin and we'll always be together.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Well, How can you know it's different, really? And if you're in love with the person I'm inclined to believe the sex will be great, yes?
Sorry, I'm not buying that purposeless crap, finding a purpose is the purpose in itself. (and I didnt feel it's fair to write all philosophical thoughs as bullcrap) But I guess you stance is just to enjoy life without further ad'o dictated by the evolutions reward system.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you stop wanting sex, it is usually a sign of something wrong with your body. It usually means your sick, in some way shape or form (not mentally) and your body is turning down the hormonal drive so that you don't pass on bad genes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you're saying bad sex gives you bad genes and a sick body? Somehow it contradicts with this: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Dread+Oct 17 2003, 01:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dread @ Oct 17 2003, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even christians like sex. Or they know(have heard) that it's really much fun. Now if you don't have sex before marriage you might end up in a relationship with bad sex. And t's a fact that a relationship without sex(or bad sex, samething), especially when the couple is young, is not going to last too long. Now either the couple tries out before getting married or they get divorced or they live in a relationship that is pure agony(big chunk of their love life is unusable) for them. Your pick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For crying out loud people - WHICH CHRISTIAN POSTER ON THIS BOARD has actually said sex is bad/wrong/evil? No one, not one freakin poster - so why do you continue to hammer home this idea that Christians think its evil?
Its a fact that young relationships - i.e. teenage relationships, last less than 4 weeks after a sexual experience, so much for sex the great "keeper together". You need maturity and a committed relationship for sex to actually help. If you dont have that then your relationship is doomed. So for people who are in a committed relationship but NOT married - well they are just doing the wrong thing, but they wont suffer an ill effects.
Pure agony? Sorry lad I'm not an animal, I can control myself. I'm a big boy now, I take responsiblity for my own actions - I choose what I do, and what I do not.
The "try before you buy theory" is rubbish. "Getting marriage experience" by mating with anything is also rubbish. Sex is like a sport - it gets better with practise, with the same person. Those who enjoy the greatest sex are those with a single partner, in a committed relationship who have practised together, and know just what to do to give the other partner the greatest satisfaction.
If someone finds that sex is a big chunk of their love life - then I would suggest that that person has issues.
EDIT ignore me ppl - Im in a bad mood today, so plz forgive my inane flaming, I wont post anymore for a while
Comments
The Church does indirectly claim that sex is evil. Why else would anyone need to ask God for a "sex-pass" by getting officially married ? The Church treats sex like a drug , something that must be controlled. Something that doesn't belong to you. Your body doesn't belong to you , God needs it to produce children , that's not supposed to be a pleasure , a joy , a relief : it's a <i>duty</i>... the urges you feel when seeing someone of the opposite sex is not natural , it's a <i>temptation</i> , it is evil. Everyone is possessed by evil and should feel guilty , that's why one needs so much to ask God for forgiveness.
So the right thing to do is not to live naturally , to have sex with the people you love because it brings pleasure to both , it is to obey orders. Orders from the Church that claims theses are taken directly from God's words. God only wants you to have children , not to enjoy yourself on this planet. You're here to pray Him all day and teach your many children to have faith in Him , even if you can't feed them properly. If they die early , they got a place in Heaven anyways.
Condoms are a product of human pride. What ! you thought you could have sex without fear of catching a STD ? What ! you thought you could decide wether or not you would have children when having sex ! Blasphemy ! God is supposed to decide for you.
FACT : people have a right to do anything they want in the privacy of their homes. Sex outside marriage is only illegal on the most fundamentalist countries like Saudi Arabia.
FACT : the condom is 99.9% effective at stopping STDs of any kind , including HIV , if used properly.
Now , for thoses 10% people not smart enough to use them , what's the best choice... abstain from having sex outside marriage and hope their wife will show perfect fidelity , blindly obeying orders from the "wiser" people ruling the Church ? Or learn how to use it properly and know how to have decent sexual relations , through sexual education , to enjoy their sexual freedom ?
Hypocrisy needs to be wiped (if not flammed) out of theses forums. I challenge all you religious types to clearly state that sex is not intrinsically evil , and prove that your anti-condom rethoric is right.
I have no problems with God , and anyone's beliefs , as long as they don't threaten the freedoms of others. The next generation's education is a terribly important matter. I fear for the future of theses children... believe in anything you like , but <b><i>let them live how they like</i></b>.
Now if you had read the original statement - and maybe you did and just got carried away, or if you had read all the replies, you would notice no one here is for banning the condom, we just support the idea that maybe you can suggest on that packet of rubbers that their just might be a better way of doing things.
"Blindly obeying orders from those wiser than us in the Church?"
bleh - been said before, been debunked. EDITED - too harsh.
Ryo - what do you mean what whirlwind? Got Social issues? Teenage mothers etc
For the record, what I meant by this is the following:
"I believe abstinence is admirable, and should be taught as the only 100% effective method of birth control and STD-prevention." However, I also believe that education should also include general sex-related topics, including other forms of birth control/STD prevention.
As far as teenage pregnancy goes it does have something to do with the fact a lot of young Latinos are raised in very strict relegious homes, in may be an un-PC thing to say but it's true.
And before you ask what that has to do with anything I don't know of many parents who would openly talk with their kids about parents, much less extremly relegious ones, and only a few would go so far as to actually give their children protection.
As far as teenage pregnancy goes it does have something to do with the fact a lot of young Latinos are raised in very strict relegious homes, in may be an un-PC thing to say but it's true.
And before you ask what that has to do with anything I don't know of many parents who would openly talk with their kids about parents, much less extremly relegious ones, and only a few would go so far as to actually give their children protection. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, HIV levels have plummeted, exactly as I would have predicted. Fooled by the likes of Kinsey etc, we all leapt onto the sexual revolution with the "everyone's doing it its natural" bs, and along with that came the proliferation of STDs, family breakdowns, teenage pregnancies, teenage suicide etc
And then science caught up and started promoting the condom a lot to counter this problem, and its working. But I still think that continues to give the wrong message - the only thing wrong with premarital sex is that you might get a disease or pregnant. Thats just not true, there is so much more involved in it emotionally that its really hard to quantify. And now the Western world is so saturated in the "You're just an animal hump like there is no tomorrow" attitude, the condom is really the only form of damage control left.
And if you are an African and you have the spare change to spend on condoms, then I would suggest that you would be educated enough to realise the extreme danger screwing anyone and everyone puts you in. Africans are generally poor and illeducated, it simply isnt worth flooding them with free condoms and spending massive amounts of money on education for them. When you are below the poverty line, getting an STD (if you even know it exists) just doesnt seem to worry you that much.
The root cause of the African STD problem lies in infidelity and promiscurity. The husbands go out, screw hookers/other peoples wives etc, then bring it home to their wife. Given the stats, most of these men are already infected, and they obviously dont care about anyone else, so why would they start wearing a condom now?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Sex is natural</b>. Few things are more natural. This is an absolutly undeniable fact.
Having multiple partners is someone's choice, and if they don't take the care to ensure that their partner(s) don't have STDs then they run the risk of contracting them. The same way that if you go to an African jungle and don't take precautions against malaria, don't be surprised if you contract it.
Out of all the problems you list there, 3 can be solved with contraception. Condoms arn't foolproof, that's true, but they're a hell of a lot better than doing it unprotected. If the woman takes the pill and the man uses condoms you need a divine miracle to fall pregnant. STDs have a much, much lower chance of getting contracted when contraception is used. There's a chance they'll fail, but there's also a chance for instance that immunization will fail. Does that mean we should give up on immunization and go back to the good old days of mass plagues devestating entire countries?
Children being born to parents who arn't ready for the responability or who are unable to care for their child is a bad thing. Contraception stops that. I would say that yeah, children can cause marriages to fail, but contraception doesn't. Teenage pregnancies, again the same thing.
Now as for teenage suicide, yes falling pregnant will likely do this. Who's fault is that? The values of society? No. There's nothing wrong with young people exploring their sexual nature. It's healthy and natural. However, if you don't use contraception you're being irresponsible and rather stupid. It's your own fault for not taking precautions if you fall pregnant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only thing wrong with premarital sex is that you might get a disease or pregnant. Thats just not true, there is so much more involved in it emotionally that its really hard to quantify. And now the Western world is so saturated in the "You're just an animal hump like there is no tomorrow" attitude, the condom is really the only form of damage control left.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We consider teenagers of a certain age to be able to drive, sometimes drink or smoke, take out bank loans ect. It's their choice if they want to enter into a sexual relationship, and they're mature enough to make that choice. Now if they made the wrong choice and that relationship breaks up, that is part of life. It's much easier to break up a relationship than it is a marriage. Under your system, two people meet up, get along with one another but can't go any further because they must get married. So they do, but it turns out after a few months that they're incompatable. They want to break up, but now they have to go through mountains of costly legal work. Now if those people had been free to carry on with a sexual relationship outside of marriage, they would have gone their seperate ways, emotionally saddened for sure but a lot wiser and with a lot less hassle and fuss.
Teaching children and teenagers that sex is a dirty, filthy thing that is only to be used for procreation is far more emotionally damaging. <b>I know this from first hand experiance</b>. Now I am not advocating that we teach teenagers to bonk everything they see. But I am advocating that when they do enter into a sexual relationship, they should feel comfortable with their sexual nature.
Let's ask <a href='http://www.ccli.org/marriage/johnpaul_sexuality.shtml' target='_blank'>the Pope</a>:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is here a real need for sexual education, and it must be a continuous process. The main objective of this education is to create the conviction that ‘the other person is more important than I’. Such conviction will not arise suddenly and from nothing, merely on the basis of physical intercourse. It can only be, must be, the result of an integral education in love. Sexual intercourse itself does not teach love, but love, if it is a genuine virtue, will show itself to be so in sexual relations between married people as elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the way: Happy 25th Anniversary, John Paul II!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sex is natural<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep in mind that this term has different connotations in the theological context. You can't reduce it to animal-natural, because it always contains allusions to God's desired order of things, and man's free will is capable of violating this order.
Stay on target... Stay on topic...
I remember seeing flyers missionaries had handed out that said god protects you from HIV if you're married.
If the goal is to prevent underage pregnancys and STDs, the use of condoms and the idea of absteinance go hand in hand. If you're going to promote absteinance and attack the use of contraception in the same breath, you can't really claim that your motive is to prevent STDs.
I understand that many of the religious posters on this board probably don't attack the idea of contraception, but you can't deny that this is the general message being sent out by the Church (It's a catholic belief i think, although bare in mind that my source here is Monty Python's Meaning of Life). Attacking the use of contraception, even when promoting absteinance as an alternative, is more than likely going to result in more unsafe sex.
Honestly which of the Catholic ideals are more likely to be followed: Not having sex before marrige, or not using contraception? The first involves holding back a natural urge present in all men and women, the 2nd involves deciding not to go out in the rain and drive down to boots to buy a latex balloon.
Abstainence - fine, lovely, if people decide to save themselves for marrige i don't see why not. But you can't force this decision onto people and you have to acknowledge that plenty of people are still going to have sex before marrige. Given that fact, it doesn't help to present condoms as either 'against the will of god' or ineffective in a sense of 'not worth bothering with'.
That, of course, is a very pragmatic way of looking at things. It's not the Christian way, though.
The Christian way is to establish an incredibly demanding set of ethics, saying: "This is the perfection you must strive for. You will fail because you're weak and sinful, but you must try nonetheless."
It's impossible for the Church to somehow come to terms with sin and say: "Well, if you absolutely <i>have</i> to sleep around, at least use a condom, ok?"
Although this would be a reasonable piece of advice, it's contradictory to expect it to come from the Catholic Church. Their job is to teach about ethical perfection, not give practical tips how to avoid STDs. That's just a side effect (although probably no coincidence).
That, of course, is a very pragmatic way of looking at things. It's not the Christian way, though.
The Christian way is to establish an incredibly demanding set of ethics, saying: "This is the perfection you must strive for. You will fail because you're weak and sinful, but you must try nonetheless."
It's impossible for the Church to somehow come to terms with sin and say: "Well, if you absolutely <i>have</i> to sleep around, at least use a condom, ok?"
Although this would be a reasonable piece of advice, it's contradictory to expect it to come from the Catholic Church. Their job is to teach about ethical perfection, not give practical tips how to avoid STDs. That's just a side effect (although probably no coincidence). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've yet to see ethical perfection in effects... could you introduce me to a few saints right now ? They might be better at convincing me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Since the Church <b>knows</b> no human is perfect , it is criminal from its leaders to ignore the issue of STDs due to sex outside marriage.
There is no way to prevent sex outside marriage besides brainwashing the whole humankind. So it is total nonsense to criticize the other 99% effective ways of preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancies.
Oh and besides , an other important point : most STDs can be contracted through various other ways , and not only transfusion. I don't think sharing hepatitis and other diseases is a great way of reinforcing love...
Even though you would love the person you would have to masturbate for the rest of your life...or suffer the bad sex. Now how's that fun? You never get to experience good sex for the rest of your life and then when finally your wife dies when you are 60, your stuff(or staff or rod or tool, whatever) don't work as well as when you got married 40 years ago.
It's not irrelevant.
Love can handle all obstacles.
(using best point I can think of) When I broke up with my old girlfriend, it was partially because the sex wasn't...spontaneous. It wasn't any good. Sure, there was the physical good feeling but it didn't last. I met another girl, and sex with her was mind blowing. Now that I know what I like, I know what to look for, I won't have to wait until a marriage to find out if sex is all bad. Otherwise, i'd have to violate traditional Roman Catholic doctrine and...*gasp* get a divorce.
and I love being raised in a Unitarian household. A couple months ago my mother asked me if I needed some condoms, a few days before Riley came and stayed for a week <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As it will not continue to be that spontaneous.
Also we're talking about bad sex, not lack of said thing <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also hormones play a large part in how you feel towards a person, your express want to have sex with them might make you feel like you are in complete head over heels love with them, do you really want to lose all interest in your parnter after you have sex with them for the first time and end up in a loveless marriage, or just get divorced?
Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.
Yes, I know that if you base a relationship on sex it will fail, I know that ALL too well. but what if you already know your partner? what if you two just *click* mentally and for so long you had basically a very awkward ^almost^ boyfriend/girlfriend thing, even to the point where you ^almost^ hitched. That's what it was with Riley, and then we finally gave in, after 8 years of our little dance. *but that's not what i'm trying to say*
I can understand the catholic church's views that abstinence is the only way to remain 100% safe (well, that and make sure your first partner is your only partner, and vice-versa) but they also need to see that people aren't going to be able to resist their nature. (this is not meant as a joke, it's serious) Jesus did die for our sins, so that means we are, at the least, capable of sinning and not living perfect lives. Doesn't that mean that the Church should'nt say condoms are wrong, if they help you remain healthy, disease-free and not pregnant?
but I can see where the cardinal (whatever the guy is, Bishop, cardinal, he's Clergy) is coming from as Condoms aren't 100% effective but they do have a lot better chance of protecting then just going "commando" and praying for the best.
/edit
I know what dr. D is saying. For a while me and riley were completely...awkward. We weren't sure what was right, what was wrong and we were both afraid to ask. Now that I got her to use AIM, she's finding it much easier to be open about herself and I am too
1. 9/10 times you can (and probably should) replace the noun "Christian" with "Catholic."
2. Ryo, fuer den lieben von Gott, capitalize the G in "God" when you are talking aboot the God of Judaism/Christianity. (It IS a proper noun after all.)
<u>Protestant Beliefs</u> (Yaaaaay, cheer)
The reason I feel why sex is for marriage because God only wants to protect us and abstinence is the only 100% way to go about not contracted some disease that makes it burn when you urinate. (Although I think penicillin works to clear that up.)
Now, if everyone didn't practice abstinance and just went around having sex with anything with two legs (NO ANIMALS) and used a condom there is that .01% of it failing.
There are 6 billion people however for the sake of this mathing thing lets say only 3 billion are capable of reproduction and have sex... 3,000,000,000 people * .01% = 30,000,000 infected. That's a lot of people.
If people abstained we have 3,000,000,000 people * 0% = 0 infected. Yaaay. (0 people is good in this case...and this number excludes anyone that got AIDS from a blood transfusion..or something.)
Our opinion on condoms... Go for it! Sure beats taking some pill that might turn out to be rat poisoning because of a horrible mix-up at a pharmacy.
Our opinion on sex in general... Oral? Go for it! Anal? Why not? Vaginal? Of course! As long as it's in the safety of marriage, you're gold.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the Church knows no human is perfect , it is criminal from its leaders to ignore the issue of STDs due to sex outside marriage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This statement assumes that because it is a natural inclination to stick your **** into other people's orifices that we can't hold it in and is simply not true.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Our society & major religion (again, USA here) teach us that Sex is wrong,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Naaay! Sex is possibly the greatest thing ever (though I am yet to find oot for myself) and is perfectly O.K. to talk about freely...Except in front of 9 year olds. They may not appreciate that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's what it was with Riley<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this "Riley" you speak of?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I really meant was, you have never had sex before in your life, but you have wanted it your whole life. Now you meet a wonderful lass and you fall in love with her and marry her. Now my question/point is, how the **** can the sex be bad? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Is it better than the go and have sex and drugs til' you reach the panic age and realize you need someone?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You stop wanting sex, how can that be bad?
Also, I'm curious, you're in college but you have had your girlfriend (current one?) for 8 years. Did you meet her when you were 10? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
church say sex bad.
instincts say make big big sex, sex feel good.
badabing, badaboom. go towel off.
Epidemic, trust me, sex is not the same for everyone. Every person has a different...feel to them. Some people may not like the way person X feels when they are in bed, while other people prefer it. It's not until you actually have sex that you find out if you like the way person X feels.
If you ever stop wanting sex (when your young) usually that's a sign of something seriously wrong. A Human's sole purpose is to go out into the world, find a mate, create a mini-version of its self and die. That's it. No philosophical bullcrap, no deep down stuff. We are, in essence, animals. What we do after breeding doesn't matter for jack so long as we have healthy offspring. The thing is, i'm not ready to pass on my genes and then be content to die. So back to the purpose of this paragraph. If you stop wanting sex, it is usually a sign of something wrong with your body. It usually means your sick, in some way shape or form (not mentally) and your body is turning down the hormonal drive so that you don't pass on bad genes.
and me and Riley haven't been "together" together for 8 years. That's just how long the courtship lasted. It wasn't until I turned 18 (Dec 10th 2002) that the relationship turned physical. We also knew each other when we were 6, my little sister was alive and she had cancer. We've been through thick and thin and we'll always be together.
Sorry, I'm not buying that purposeless crap, finding a purpose is the purpose in itself. (and I didnt feel it's fair to write all philosophical thoughs as bullcrap) But I guess you stance is just to enjoy life without further ad'o dictated by the evolutions reward system.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you stop wanting sex, it is usually a sign of something wrong with your body. It usually means your sick, in some way shape or form (not mentally) and your body is turning down the hormonal drive so that you don't pass on bad genes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying bad sex gives you bad genes and a sick body? Somehow it contradicts with this: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bad Sex is almost equivalent to no sex. At some point, you just stop wanting it, and that's a serious problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For crying out loud people - WHICH CHRISTIAN POSTER ON THIS BOARD has actually said sex is bad/wrong/evil? No one, not one freakin poster - so why do you continue to hammer home this idea that Christians think its evil?
Its a fact that young relationships - i.e. teenage relationships, last less than 4 weeks after a sexual experience, so much for sex the great "keeper together". You need maturity and a committed relationship for sex to actually help. If you dont have that then your relationship is doomed. So for people who are in a committed relationship but NOT married - well they are just doing the wrong thing, but they wont suffer an ill effects.
Pure agony? Sorry lad I'm not an animal, I can control myself. I'm a big boy now, I take responsiblity for my own actions - I choose what I do, and what I do not.
The "try before you buy theory" is rubbish. "Getting marriage experience" by mating with anything is also rubbish. Sex is like a sport - it gets better with practise, with the same person. Those who enjoy the greatest sex are those with a single partner, in a committed relationship who have practised together, and know just what to do to give the other partner the greatest satisfaction.
If someone finds that sex is a big chunk of their love life - then I would suggest that that person has issues.
EDIT ignore me ppl - Im in a bad mood today, so plz forgive my inane flaming, I wont post anymore for a while