firstly, don't worry about nulling the outside brushes of your map. They get removed by compiler anyway.
<b>EDIT: Besides, what you have is a vis issue, not a texture issue. VIS decides that you can still see that room from where you are, so it get's drawn. Because HL renders from back to front, it then draws the window on top. Unfortunately the effect is that you can see into places you shouldn't....</b>
Secondly if you have a window pointing out in the general direction of another room, you could consider imaging what you'd really see from that window. For instance in the old eclipse there was this very same issue inbetween MS and Horseshoe. If KFS had wanted to keep that window as it was and where it was, he could have perhaps mapped in the top of the corridor it looked out over along with some more outdoor scenery. Ofcourse this is a tad much effort to put into something only skulks ever see, and rarely at that, however in your case you could include the outside wall of the room you are seeing into inside your skybox?
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Oct 10 2003, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Oct 10 2003, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My skybox allows you to see "into" rooms because the outside brushes are nulled. Is this fixable?
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like Revenge said above, it's because of your map's vis setup. If you change your level so that the engine doesn't draw one room from the other, that'll fix the problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--XP-Cagey+Oct 10 2003, 11:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Oct 10 2003, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Oct 10 2003, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Oct 10 2003, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My skybox allows you to see "into" rooms because the outside brushes are nulled. Is this fixable?
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like Revenge said above, it's because of your map's vis setup. If you change your level so that the engine doesn't draw one room from the other, that'll fix the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Can you break that down for me? Like how do I do that, what parameter do I add to VIS?
He meant your MAP's vis setup. You should set up your map in a way that the room you see is behind enough corners so that the game engine doesn't bother rendering it. Running vis with -full will help of course <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If it is the ready room that you see, I admit that is a weird problem, but move it away from the window if possible. If it is another part of the map that you see - as Revenge said - it is just right to see this part of the map. Try the effect of outdoor scenery. Cliffs, the outer hull, waste in the orbit of a space station...
<!--QuoteBegin--NerdIII+Oct 11 2003, 02:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NerdIII @ Oct 11 2003, 02:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> He meant your MAP's vis setup. You should set up your map in a way that the room you see is behind enough corners so that the game engine doesn't bother rendering it. Running vis with -full will help of course <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If it is the ready room that you see, I admit that is a weird problem, but move it away from the window if possible. If it is another part of the map that you see - as Revenge said - it is just right to see this part of the map. Try the effect of outdoor scenery. Cliffs, the outer hull, waste in the orbit of a space station... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I will try that, it is indeed other rooms in the map, not the RR. I'll add some cliffs and such, thanks for the ideas everyone I really appreciate it.
It does not matter what the texture on the outside of the map is since it gets removed all togheter wether it is NULL or not.
Try this, play ns_eclipse and go to marine start as a skulk. Climb up in the glass 'alcove' thing in marine start and you will be able to see through the glass, through the skybox and into the marine start. That certainly is ugly and it is the very same problem you are having...
You will not seethe entire marine spawn or outside marine spawn though. This is because HL thinks you can see only certain other 'areas' from your 'area'(leaf), and some of these happen to be behind the skybox. The sky seems to be rendered first, before everything else in back to front order. It renders everything it thinks you can see from the 'area' you are in and skips everything else(this is to reduce workload, it basically precaches which 'areas' you will be able to see from every 'area' in the map instead of using only real-time occlusion).
You can effect how VIS will divide you map into areas using brushes textured with skip on all sides except one and hint on the last one and by putting VIS blocking brushes in such a way that you won't be able to see that 'area' from your 'area', any world brush covered with any texture(even NULL or SKY) will block VIS with the exception of skip which are totally removed from the game.
(This is why NULL brushes can cause the hall of mirrors effect when used carelessly by making the engine think it cannot see something from your 'area' that it should since the NULL is not rendered. Nothing will be rendered over that portion of the screen except models and sprites, thus it will flicker when swapping the buffer screens back and forth and the area will not be cleared(one person running through that portion of the screen will be rendered several times making it look like a little like a hall of mirrors))
Hope I didn't make too many slip-ups or cagey might just slap me or something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> .
<!--QuoteBegin--Soylent green+Oct 11 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Oct 11 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It does not matter what the texture on the outside of the map is since it gets removed all togheter wether it is NULL or not.
Try this, play ns_eclipse and go to marine start as a skulk. Climb up in the glass 'alcove' thing in marine start and you will be able to see through the glass, through the skybox and into the marine start. That certainly is ugly and it is the very same problem you are having...
You will not seethe entire marine spawn or outside marine spawn though. This is because HL thinks you can see only certain other 'areas' from your 'area'(leaf), and some of these happen to be behind the skybox. The sky seems to be rendered first, before everything else in back to front order. It renders everything it thinks you can see from the 'area' you are in and skips everything else(this is to reduce workload, it basically precaches which 'areas' you will be able to see from every 'area' in the map instead of using only real-time occlusion).
You can effect how VIS will divide you map into areas using brushes textured with skip on all sides except one and hint on the last one and by putting VIS blocking brushes in such a way that you won't be able to see that 'area' from your 'area', any world brush covered with any texture(even NULL or SKY) will block VIS with the exception of skip which are totally removed from the game.
(This is why NULL brushes can cause the hall of mirrors effect when used carelessly by making the engine think it cannot see something from your 'area' that it should since the NULL is not rendered. Nothing will be rendered over that portion of the screen except models and sprites, thus it will flicker when swapping the buffer screens back and forth and the area will not be cleared(one person running through that portion of the screen will be rendered several times making it look like a little like a hall of mirrors))
Hope I didn't make too many slip-ups or cagey might just slap me or something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I'm not a real experienced mapper, so I only followed some of that, are you saying a SKIP brush would block vis completely? Furthermore, not to take this too far off topic, I've never used HINT brushes, what do they do? I feel like such a n00beh.
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Oct 11 2003, 11:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Oct 11 2003, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well I'm not a real experienced mapper, so I only followed some of that, are you saying a SKIP brush would block vis completely? Furthermore, not to take this too far off topic, I've never used HINT brushes, what do they do? I feel like such a n00beh.
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> SKIP is a special do-nothing texture that you use in combination with HINT. For more information on HINT, I'm linking a tutorial on the subject by Relic25 (author of Bast). It's an excellent resource that covers anything that I could quickly say on the topic here.
Comments
<b>EDIT: Besides, what you have is a vis issue, not a texture issue. VIS decides that you can still see that room from where you are, so it get's drawn. Because HL renders from back to front, it then draws the window on top. Unfortunately the effect is that you can see into places you shouldn't....</b>
Secondly if you have a window pointing out in the general direction of another room, you could consider imaging what you'd really see from that window. For instance in the old eclipse there was this very same issue inbetween MS and Horseshoe. If KFS had wanted to keep that window as it was and where it was, he could have perhaps mapped in the top of the corridor it looked out over along with some more outdoor scenery. Ofcourse this is a tad much effort to put into something only skulks ever see, and rarely at that, however in your case you could include the outside wall of the room you are seeing into inside your skybox?
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like Revenge said above, it's because of your map's vis setup. If you change your level so that the engine doesn't draw one room from the other, that'll fix the problem.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like Revenge said above, it's because of your map's vis setup. If you change your level so that the engine doesn't draw one room from the other, that'll fix the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you break that down for me? Like how do I do that, what parameter do I add to VIS?
~ DarkATi
If it is the ready room that you see, I admit that is a weird problem, but move it away from the window if possible. If it is another part of the map that you see - as Revenge said - it is just right to see this part of the map. Try the effect of outdoor scenery. Cliffs, the outer hull, waste in the orbit of a space station...
If it is the ready room that you see, I admit that is a weird problem, but move it away from the window if possible. If it is another part of the map that you see - as Revenge said - it is just right to see this part of the map. Try the effect of outdoor scenery. Cliffs, the outer hull, waste in the orbit of a space station... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will try that, it is indeed other rooms in the map, not the RR. I'll add some cliffs and such, thanks for the ideas everyone I really appreciate it.
~ DarkATi
Try this, play ns_eclipse and go to marine start as a skulk. Climb up in the glass 'alcove' thing in marine start and you will be able to see through the glass, through the skybox and into the marine start. That certainly is ugly and it is the very same problem you are having...
You will not seethe entire marine spawn or outside marine spawn though. This is because HL thinks you can see only certain other 'areas' from your 'area'(leaf), and some of these happen to be behind the skybox. The sky seems to be rendered first, before everything else in back to front order. It renders everything it thinks you can see from the 'area' you are in and skips everything else(this is to reduce workload, it basically precaches which 'areas' you will be able to see from every 'area' in the map instead of using only real-time occlusion).
You can effect how VIS will divide you map into areas using brushes textured with skip on all sides except one and hint on the last one and by putting VIS blocking brushes in such a way that you won't be able to see that 'area' from your 'area', any world brush covered with any texture(even NULL or SKY) will block VIS with the exception of skip which are totally removed from the game.
(This is why NULL brushes can cause the hall of mirrors effect when used carelessly by making the engine think it cannot see something from your 'area' that it should since the NULL is not rendered. Nothing will be rendered over that portion of the screen except models and sprites, thus it will flicker when swapping the buffer screens back and forth and the area will not be cleared(one person running through that portion of the screen will be rendered several times making it look like a little like a hall of mirrors))
Hope I didn't make too many slip-ups or cagey might just slap me or something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Try this, play ns_eclipse and go to marine start as a skulk. Climb up in the glass 'alcove' thing in marine start and you will be able to see through the glass, through the skybox and into the marine start. That certainly is ugly and it is the very same problem you are having...
You will not seethe entire marine spawn or outside marine spawn though. This is because HL thinks you can see only certain other 'areas' from your 'area'(leaf), and some of these happen to be behind the skybox. The sky seems to be rendered first, before everything else in back to front order. It renders everything it thinks you can see from the 'area' you are in and skips everything else(this is to reduce workload, it basically precaches which 'areas' you will be able to see from every 'area' in the map instead of using only real-time occlusion).
You can effect how VIS will divide you map into areas using brushes textured with skip on all sides except one and hint on the last one and by putting VIS blocking brushes in such a way that you won't be able to see that 'area' from your 'area', any world brush covered with any texture(even NULL or SKY) will block VIS with the exception of skip which are totally removed from the game.
(This is why NULL brushes can cause the hall of mirrors effect when used carelessly by making the engine think it cannot see something from your 'area' that it should since the NULL is not rendered. Nothing will be rendered over that portion of the screen except models and sprites, thus it will flicker when swapping the buffer screens back and forth and the area will not be cleared(one person running through that portion of the screen will be rendered several times making it look like a little like a hall of mirrors))
Hope I didn't make too many slip-ups or cagey might just slap me or something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'm not a real experienced mapper, so I only followed some of that, are you saying a SKIP brush would block vis completely? Furthermore, not to take this too far off topic, I've never used HINT brushes, what do they do? I feel like such a n00beh.
~ DarkATi
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SKIP is a special do-nothing texture that you use in combination with HINT. For more information on HINT, I'm linking a tutorial on the subject by Relic25 (author of Bast). It's an excellent resource that covers anything that I could quickly say on the topic here.
<a href='http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/tutorial.php?id=2' target='_blank'>http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutor...torial.php?id=2</a>