How To Stop Slash N Burn
Necrosis
The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Tried and tested, nublars.</div> Posted in another thread but deserves to be in the Kharaa strat area. This works, I've pulled it off on Lunixmonster, so bear that in mind.
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I have to say I've been on rine teams using this strategy, in an effort to learn to counter it.
What I have learned is -
Some comms just tell the team to "rambo" and don't use waypoints or squads.
Some DO assign squads or waypoints.
Base defences are uniformly non existent. If marine spawn is destroyed, the comm will smoothly relocate if he's unable to take out the rushers.
Essentially its what aliens used to do in 2.0 basic. Rush rush rush, build while rushing, never give the rines an inch. And ends the same way all endgames ended - only this time its aliens lamed up in a hive.
Possible solutions - sheer base rapeage. Its the only time marines stop - to build the new base.
Fades would be essential - taking down rts and elec rts. If attacked, blinking to another rt. Gorge Skulk combos with adren healspray can do the same thing - and at second hive all RTs should be easy fodder.
For slowing the marine advance, Lerks CAN be useful and infact devastating if combined with OTHER aliens. Spores to soften, skulks for the kill.
A continuous blitz over RTs with one or two permagorges dropping chambers allows the rest of the team to fade/lerk and eventually onos if need be.
Because the rines have no "real" defence over their rts, retaking them should be easy, and at the very least destroying their rts is mandatory.
So, summary-
Early skulk capping of easy to hold res. Fades should be hoarding from game start.
Once the marines have revealed their strat, gorges should move nearer to hive and work on chambers and recapping RTs. Fades should work on nailing enemy rts and lone rambos of opportunity. Skulks should rush spawn and wipe it out, failing that wiping out rambos. Lerks can help spore if the marines have weapons - spore can bleed their health rather well.
RTs start electrifying, fades much more important in RT destruction until second hive allows gorges to be cocky. Skulks keep finding marine spawn, keep knocking it down. Lerks still in a support role, with second hive umbra allowing them to support the skulk rush against turrets or sporing rambo rines.
If a hive is attacked - Fades and lerks should really get back to hive and counter it. They're the fastest movers and thus can defend hive then go straight back to knocking down rts.
Shortly after that some onos should be about, and can then start smacking the marines silly or breaking sieges.
Pretty much fighting fire with fire, relies on average fades and skulks, and lerks could be used by any player. ATM it's a bit much to expect on a new-ish pub server but I would expect it to be understood on an avg-vet server.
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This worked against squad based slashburners on Lunixmonster. Fades were essential in the raping of elec rts, skulks rushed the rine reloc over and over, and myself and another gorge handled chambers.
Rine expansion was snuffed, res dried up, and when we had an Onos evolve from a skulk it was GG. WINNNARRR!!!!!
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I have to say I've been on rine teams using this strategy, in an effort to learn to counter it.
What I have learned is -
Some comms just tell the team to "rambo" and don't use waypoints or squads.
Some DO assign squads or waypoints.
Base defences are uniformly non existent. If marine spawn is destroyed, the comm will smoothly relocate if he's unable to take out the rushers.
Essentially its what aliens used to do in 2.0 basic. Rush rush rush, build while rushing, never give the rines an inch. And ends the same way all endgames ended - only this time its aliens lamed up in a hive.
Possible solutions - sheer base rapeage. Its the only time marines stop - to build the new base.
Fades would be essential - taking down rts and elec rts. If attacked, blinking to another rt. Gorge Skulk combos with adren healspray can do the same thing - and at second hive all RTs should be easy fodder.
For slowing the marine advance, Lerks CAN be useful and infact devastating if combined with OTHER aliens. Spores to soften, skulks for the kill.
A continuous blitz over RTs with one or two permagorges dropping chambers allows the rest of the team to fade/lerk and eventually onos if need be.
Because the rines have no "real" defence over their rts, retaking them should be easy, and at the very least destroying their rts is mandatory.
So, summary-
Early skulk capping of easy to hold res. Fades should be hoarding from game start.
Once the marines have revealed their strat, gorges should move nearer to hive and work on chambers and recapping RTs. Fades should work on nailing enemy rts and lone rambos of opportunity. Skulks should rush spawn and wipe it out, failing that wiping out rambos. Lerks can help spore if the marines have weapons - spore can bleed their health rather well.
RTs start electrifying, fades much more important in RT destruction until second hive allows gorges to be cocky. Skulks keep finding marine spawn, keep knocking it down. Lerks still in a support role, with second hive umbra allowing them to support the skulk rush against turrets or sporing rambo rines.
If a hive is attacked - Fades and lerks should really get back to hive and counter it. They're the fastest movers and thus can defend hive then go straight back to knocking down rts.
Shortly after that some onos should be about, and can then start smacking the marines silly or breaking sieges.
Pretty much fighting fire with fire, relies on average fades and skulks, and lerks could be used by any player. ATM it's a bit much to expect on a new-ish pub server but I would expect it to be understood on an avg-vet server.
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This worked against squad based slashburners on Lunixmonster. Fades were essential in the raping of elec rts, skulks rushed the rine reloc over and over, and myself and another gorge handled chambers.
Rine expansion was snuffed, res dried up, and when we had an Onos evolve from a skulk it was GG. WINNNARRR!!!!!
Comments
I like it as insurance, although the strat is easily modified to have the 2 gorgies drop the 2 rts nearest hive while a skulk investigates rine spawn. If its not slashburning, then other RTs can be dropped.
Minor change, anyhow.
What worries me more is HOW to counter slashburn with a "green" team. Green marines can still slashburn, but how do green aliens counter?
Marines DO kill aliens IF they know where theyre coming from.
Then they get medspam allowing to kill lerks and gorges with ease, so your early res is gone..
As fade starts popping ,SGs are handed out and they get either killed or held back.
No onos' will come as no RTs are built since Aliens lost their start res to SGer and medspam.
Marines will go in and secure a 6 RTs and then get nice gear and own the hive(s)
Ok I assume you didn't read fully, so I'll REPEAT MYSELF.
"Skulks should rush spawn and wipe it out, failing that wiping out rambos"
If the rines are expecting a rush, and are in spawn, all the better - it means they're not out slashburning. Second, since THIS IS A SLASHBURN COUNTER, marines will NOT be in spawn - they'll be slashburning.
"Then they get medspam allowing to kill lerks and gorges with ease, so your early res is gone.."
Medspam is not generally a part of slashburn. If he does medspam, all the better as he's spending resources while you are COUNTERING HIS SLASHBURN by taking down the rts he's putting up.
"As fade starts popping ,SGs are handed out and they get either killed or held back."
Competent players are expected to fade. Not inexperienced ones. Secondly, THIS IS A SLASHBURN STRAT and thusly fades will be taking down elec rts while skulks rush marines. Skulks may get killed/held back but at the same time that SLOWS THE MARINES, which is the important point. Finally the Lerk is GASSING THEM RELENTLESSLY which will stall them a hell of a lot more. VERY IMPORTANT AS A SLASHBURN COUNTER.
"No onos' will come as no RTs are built since Aliens lost their start res to SGer and medspam."
Would these be the RTs put up by permagorges? In a bigger game, the skulks go gorge and drop an RT before re-skulking, and will probably NEED TO since permagorging is economically unfeasible in big games. So the RTs will STILL be up, the rines will be spending on shotties and medspam but NOT KEEPING THEIR RTS - in the end run marines are running a deficit. Especially when base keeps getting destroyed. Rines will give up their slashburn and move to more conventional marine strategy - at which point you can go back to conventional alien strategy.
"Marines will go in and secure a 6 RTs and then get nice gear and own the hive(s)"
No, because people actually reading this topic will have kept enemy RTs down with fades and 2nd hive gorge bb.
If you insist on replying please do so by reading the topic fully. This is a slashburn counter thread, and is concerned with slashburn and SLASHBURN ALONE.
- Building safe nodes
The majority of aliens are still in the "more is better" mindset. We start in MA hive on eclipse, 20 seconds later I see someone capping Triad Gen... why?! We can't possibly defend that, it's on the other side of the map and can be shot from a safe position behind the railings on the upper floor. It's stupid.
Do NOT build nodes you cannot defend. Marines can easily replace their nodes, so they can feel free to drop them everywhere, aliens can't. You should cap *at the most* 3 nodes, and the safest ones. Safe nodes means nodes that are close to your hive and in skulk-friendly territory.
Capping less, and more easily defended nodes will have several benefits. Marines that go after these nodes will provide RFK. Your nodes will be under less attack, meaning you can spend more of your time atacking *their* nodes. Your aliens won't all be depleted of res 1 minute into the game, meaning you will have backup res in case the second hive dies before going up or you desperately need something.
- D chambers.. no.
The most effective slash tactic is when they *don't* electrify. Some poeple seem to think Marines should elec their nodes but they couldn't be more wrong, the whole point o fthe slash tactic is that you don't have to defend your nodes, so don't. Now D is the best counter against elec, so if they don't electrify (which they shouldn't), you shouldn't go D... you should go M. M will allow your skulks to travel quicker to defend/attack nodes, or to set up ambushes. It will also allow for *very* strong gorge gangs. Also, against this strat lerks are usually more effective then fades, and lerks need M.
Theoretically S is the best counter against this strat, so if the COM is a one-trick pony you can do that. If he is anything but that he will however hand you your butt, since S is so easily countered it's not even funny.
- Teamwork... yes
Having 3 people cap nodes then go skulk. 3 people go gorge and drop chambers... and STAY gorge. These permagorges should move around the map laming up the resnodes and healing the aliens (with M you need gorges since you can't have regen). Some go lerk early, at least one save for hive... and here's an exploit that is rarely used "skulk pairs". New studys show that RT's go down more then twice as quick to two skulks then to one! Get your skulk buddy and stick to him, there's even evidence that suggests that two skulks are better then one when attacking Marines too!
Exactly!!! When I send marines out to kill res nodes I tell atleast 3 of them to attack it, because it will go down before the aliens have a chance to get there and defend it. Aliens can do the same thing.
Unfortunately I sometimes find myself being the only one going to the other side of the map looking for the undefended marine RTs, while all the rest of the aliens are running up long corridors next to the hive towards marines, or attacking electrified res right outside our hive.
The problem I see with going movement first is if the marines electrify the res towers. Its going to make the fades life very hard. The reason not to electrify every res node is that your return in the huge investment will not be seen as fades will take down all your res shortly after spending all your res on electrifying them. If the aliens go movement first then its going to take a long time to take all the electrified res down and will be too late.
In the end the way to counter slash & burn is to kill the marines and stop them taking all your res down, as simple as that.
I like the comparisons one can draw between these strats. Anyone got other "tried and tested" suggestions?
Ah! Or so you would think...
When going M first your main objective is always to get a second hive up ASAP, to unlock the D. An electrified node will take three times as long to pay for itself as an unelectrified, this basically puts Marines way behind in the tech race (and is why I never electrify nodes when doing this as com.. which you shouldn't). Marines who are electrifying nodes will pretty much be at the same place in their development when you have 2 hives, as they would be when you have 1 hive and regen fades if they DON'T electrify.
The flaw here of course being that you don't have a guarantee of a second hive. With D first, the second hive is always started much later then with M first, mainly for psychological reasons but also for practical reasons (M first yeilds more RFK for skulks). If you have enough to go fade, you have enough to start a hive, so the hive should be started at 3-4 minutes into the game and thus finished 6-7 minutes in, allowing for D, but even better, bilebombs. The second hive is essential, but fortunately M both offers the quickest way to start it and the easiest way to defend it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->