Really Weird Elevator Bug? Is This An Engine Prob?

blackjackel · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">i bet not many of you have seen this one</div> First of all, this is an elevator that goes REALLY high.... (4400 is the LIP or altitude)

the elevator (func_door or func_plat edit: AND FUNC_TRAIN!) goes up really high, then the physical (part you can feel) self of the elevator seperates from its visual self (part you can see but not feel)... the elevator LOOKS like it stops at a certain point but the invisible body of the elevator keeps going up and stops above the visual (hollow) body. So at one point you are floating in mid air (standing on the physical elevator) and you look down and see the *fake hollow image of the elevator you are supposed to be standing on*

Try it yourself...

make a really long level, make an elevator, set the lip to 4400

NerdIII · October 2003

Haven't tested it, but wow, lol, can't believe it. Lip always worked fine for me. Then again I always used lip the way it is meant to: As a value substracted from its real height/width so it doesn't move all the way into a wall but stops closely before. What makes them look more realistic imo. And... wouldn't you have to set a negative lip anyway if you want the elevator to go up more than its real height? Aren't there a few funmaps with real high elevators? How do they work then?

Cagey · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blackjackel @ Sep 30 2003, 11:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> First of all, this is an elevator that goes REALLY high.... (4400 is the LIP or altitude)

the elevator (func_door or func_plat) goes up really high, then the physical (part you can feel) self of the elevator seperates from its visual self (part you can see but not feel)... the elevator LOOKS like it stops at a certain point but the invisible body of the elevator keeps going up and stops above the visual (hollow) body. So at one point you are floating in mid air (standing on the physical elevator) and you look down and see the *fake hollow image of the elevator you are supposed to be standing on*

Try it yourself...

make a really long level, make an elevator, set the lip to 4400  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not sure what's causing the buggy behavior, but I usually use a func_train for elevators -- costs a few extra entities over a func_door set to toggle, but you can work with path_corners to set exact positions instead of relying on the door/plat's position code.

Lt_Gravity · October 2003

AND you can change the options of its behaviour. maybe a elevator that has to be weldered each time you want to use it ^^ and guys: why nobody creates classic trains or moving platforms that "float" over the floor? I tried it out and the result was really atmospheric. I used it to create the the effect of an crate-carrier the player can move with.

Reese · October 2003

just out of curiosity what are you doing that requires an elevator that spans almost the entire map. I'm just curious about what kind of NS project can handle that kind of elevator.

Mr_Headcrab · October 2003

methinks he adding the ever atomspheric "Giant tunnel you have to get up in order to get ot a key point but you get ambushed and a wicked firefight ensues" as seen in quite a few movies.

Rokiyo · October 2003

There's a bug in HL code that stops the train's model from getting to far away from it's starting point. It happens with all mods, however this effect is even more pronounced in NS apparently (but I haven't tested it for myself)...

Fortunately there are 2 important things to remember which helps you greatly here. Firstly this bug take it's centre from where the train was built, not where it starts, and secondly all trains and tracktrains don't start where you build them, they start at the path_corner or path_track you specify.

This means that if you move your func_train elevator into the very middle of the shaft in worldcraft, you should find that the elevator still starts at the bottom (or top) like it should, and will hopefully be able to travel further before bugging out.

PS - You should try making short vertical elevators out of func_buttons so commanders can build on them, and longer ones or ones that don't go straight out of func_trains. They can't be built on but they are more stable in the map.

RPG_Jssmfulhud · October 2003

I had this anomaly a LONG time ago, when I was pretty new to mapping. I made an extremely long elevator shaft with a block, representing the lift, with a very high moving speed. If you watched the lift closely, while going down, you could see it dissapear half-way and that you were falling down... Pretty weird, but it works. You didn't crush at the end... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

blackjackel · October 2003

Thats also important, the speed is 750, but i lowered it down to 500 and it still does the same thing =/

Reese · October 2003

You might be able to fudge it a little by having the walls move in the opposite direction after the platform has reached it's limit. It would be a much more entity intensive situation, but would still be doable and the apparent distance traveled would be the same.

Haze · October 2003

Wow, thats a good idea...

Sorry for the buggy elevator thing. If the elevator is really big (The platform) then it would be great for firefights of limited marines.

blackjackel · October 2003

I just converted my func_door/func_plat to a func_train and the EXACT SAME THING happens, the elevator seperates from its viewable self in the EXACT SAME SPOT the func_door and func_plats....

By the way, this is an ELEVATOR, it goes UP

I did further testing, i moved the map and the required wads to the valve folder and played the map in HLSP and used noclip to activate the elevator, same problem, so apparently this isnt a mod-specific problem.

blackjackel · October 2003

I asked a few more people and nobody knows what the hell is going on, so here is an example map, it works with HLSP too....

<a href='http://guns4back2school.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=2396' target='_blank'>http://guns4back2school.com/forums/index.p...=ST&f=18&t=2396</a>

this includes sources, i realize it aint pretty but this is just an example...

Rokiyo · October 2003

And did you move the elevator half way up the elevator shaft?

If you have set up your path_corners correctly at the top and bottom of the shaft, and you have set the func_train's target to the bottom path_corner, then then elevator should start at the bottom like it used to, but it SHOULD be able to now get a lot higher

This will only work if the bug is currently occuring more than half way up the shaft, because then having the elevator half way up the shaft IN THE EDITOR will then put both the top and the bottom within range of the func_train.

blackjackel · October 2003

already did that, same problem, look at the example map i posted.

Rokiyo · October 2003

I would, but cant get hammer working on this comp (the vid card cant do windowed opengl)...

I'll pm somebody about it, I'll see if he can help u out

watch_me_die · October 2003

I've seen some cases of this happening before where it has been a hardware problem... I'll take a look at the map and get back to you.

Rokiyo · October 2003

/me sets forth teh chibi-babbler of dewm to go hump wmd's leg

<3

watch_me_die · October 2003

If you place the lift halfway up then compile it works perfectly... don't know why this effect happens, I can't find anything in the HL code :S

<a href='http://merkury.orcon.net.nz/ns_example.bsp' target='_blank'>http://merkury.orcon.net.nz/ns_example.bsp</a>

Rokiyo · October 2003

Dude, if you want our help atleast try our suggestions. WMD did exactly what I told you to do, and I even posted it twice and you still didn't listen.

blackjackel · October 2003

tell me EXACTLY what you did, did you decrease the length of the map? did you higher the elevator's start point? what did you do?

watch_me_die · October 2003

Open map, move the lift to halfway up the map, save map. Compile.

Rokiyo · October 2003

he clicked and dragged the func_train half way up the elevator shaft.

NOTHING ELSE. he simply moved an entity, he didnt change any settings, he didn't modify an sizes, nothing. he just moved an entity verticall straight up by 2200 units.

I dont even have to open the bsp to find this out, I know that's exactly what he would have done

blackjackel · October 2003

I didnt listen the first time because i honestly didnt understand you, i thought you were talking about some other error, but now that i did it myself i know exactly what you were saying...

This is really weird.. why does it do that? I think XP-Cagey should mention something about this smoe where in the mapping guidelines....

Anyways thanks to all who helped, posted, or even read this thread.

Trojan · October 2003

Elevators, doors etc have always been buggy in quake-based code. I mean, look at the shoot-triggerable doors etc in Q1, like on DM6. Shoot it with a shaft (lg, whichever) and it will fly up into the air for no reason for a split second then return to normal. Its more than likely just a bug in the engines code, one of those strange and unaviodable little biatchs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

NerdIII · October 2003

@Revenge: You have a vid card that doesn't allow windowed OpenGL modes? What card is that? The QuArK team is thinking about making QuArK OpenGL only, too and this might make us keep the software renderer up to date. We were all sure that if the hardware doesn't allow OpenGL it would automatically fall back to Microsoft's software OpenGL library.

@blackjakal: Don't expect anyone to help you in the future <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> And: No, you can't pull it off on XP-Cagey. He has noting to do with your unability to listen carefully. This bug did not occur often and so noone cared about it. It is nothing that has to be mentioned in any mod mapping guidelines, because it is a general bug in Half-Life. Now move into a corner and feel ashamed. *evillaughter* (Don't take me too serious plz.)

Really Weird Elevator Bug? Is This An Engine Prob?

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