National Do-not-call List At Risk
MonsieurEvil
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!</div> <a href='http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20030924/tc_nm/telecom_telemarketing_dc' target='_blank'>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...elemarketing_dc</a>
Did I mention, 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!'?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The U.S. District Court in Oklahoma City said the Federal Trade Commission overstepped its authority when it set up the popular anti-telemarketing measure, according to a court decision filed late on Tuesday.
The FTC has signed up some 50 million phone numbers for the list, which was due to take effect on Oct. 1.
The Direct Marketing Association sued to block the list shortly after Congress approved it in January, saying it would violate free-speech laws and discriminate against an industry that provides millions of jobs.
"The Direct Marketing Association and its fellow plaintiffs are grateful that the federal District Court in Oklahoma City understood and upheld the industry's belief that the Federal Trade Commission does not have authority to implement and enforce a national do-not-call list," the trade group said in a press release.
An FTC official declined to comment until the agency had a chance to examine the ruling.
"We're received it, and we're reviewing it," FTC spokeswoman Cathy MacFarlane said.
Lawmakers were quick to criticize the court's decision, arguing that they had given the FTC the authority to implement the list.
"We are confident this ruling will be overturned and the nearly 50 million Americans who have signed up for the do-not-call list will remain free from unwanted telemarketing calls in the privacy of their own homes," Reps. Billy Tauzin and John Dingell said in a statement.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me shakes fist at Oklahoma and kicks Doomaniac in the shins for being from there.
Did I mention, 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!'?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The U.S. District Court in Oklahoma City said the Federal Trade Commission overstepped its authority when it set up the popular anti-telemarketing measure, according to a court decision filed late on Tuesday.
The FTC has signed up some 50 million phone numbers for the list, which was due to take effect on Oct. 1.
The Direct Marketing Association sued to block the list shortly after Congress approved it in January, saying it would violate free-speech laws and discriminate against an industry that provides millions of jobs.
"The Direct Marketing Association and its fellow plaintiffs are grateful that the federal District Court in Oklahoma City understood and upheld the industry's belief that the Federal Trade Commission does not have authority to implement and enforce a national do-not-call list," the trade group said in a press release.
An FTC official declined to comment until the agency had a chance to examine the ruling.
"We're received it, and we're reviewing it," FTC spokeswoman Cathy MacFarlane said.
Lawmakers were quick to criticize the court's decision, arguing that they had given the FTC the authority to implement the list.
"We are confident this ruling will be overturned and the nearly 50 million Americans who have signed up for the do-not-call list will remain free from unwanted telemarketing calls in the privacy of their own homes," Reps. Billy Tauzin and John Dingell said in a statement.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me shakes fist at Oklahoma and kicks Doomaniac in the shins for being from there.
Comments
/me waves at the americans from the UK
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
overturned on appeal... overturned on appeal... please god overturned on appeal
I used to work for one of those places, ugh.
I really don't get the whole point of this at all... why the heck are they fighting against people who don't want them to call getting protection from their harrassment?
It's like arguing the right to sell bikes to quadraplegics o.O
If they put their name on the list they don't want advertising phonecalls, so if you manage to stop them doing it then you simply have access to numbers from people who'd hang up on you and not want anything you're selling anyways (at least via this particular method)
I think it's just stupidity reaching whole new levels -.-
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, telemarketing is illegal in the UK? Or you just like flapping your arms?
I'd advise all Brits to avoid making condescending comments about privacy right now, or I will be forced to resurrect the threads about how you are all soon getting National ID cards, and having all your license plates tracked with cameras throughout your whole country. Then we can all wave back to our friends that live in Big Brother land...
Now if only I could find that list of stuff to do with telemarketers (...that's legal).
I'd rather people tried to stop spam mail more. It fills my yahoo mail box passed it's 4.0 mb limit in less then a day. They'll give me carpal tunnel from having to delete so much useless stuff. Pfffft. I've probably deleted something I've wanted to keep, because some of the things I subscribe to get sent to the Bulk folder too.
Spam just pisses me off. Don't turn 18...yahoo sells your e-mail address to spammers! ...I think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->....started when I turned 18 at least.
Listening to: ...some dudes music down the hall. since apparently no one cares about their music volume anymore.
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, telemarketing is illegal in the UK? Or you just like flapping your arms?
I'd advise all Brits to avoid making condescending comments about privacy right now, or I will be forced to resurrect the threads about how you are all soon getting National ID cards, and having all your license plates tracked with cameras throughout your whole country. Then we can all wave back to our friends that live in Big Brother land... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Telemarketing isn't illegal, but the ability to list your phone number as "ex-directory" gives you a lot of privacy from "unwanted calls". It's also a great excuse to shout at people for calling you up unwanted.
But as for the national ID card scheme, i think this has been floating about for some years now and has repeatedly been shot down, but personally, i think it's a great idea, i have no problems with people knowing who i am or having to prove so, it's only people that want to hide the fact that will complain really.
And the numberplate tracking scheme.... bugger. Heh. I know several petrol stations (BP i know definately) run this scheme as it is, also the congestion charging in London operates a similar scheme to track all cars passing through the controlled area by numberplate reading. Personally, i, again, find no problem with this, if you're innocent you have nothing to fear, and if some git steals my car, the police will know where it is and bust the little TWOC'ing buggers, which, at present, is nigh on impossible.
Is it just me, or do i really not seem to care that the UK's slowly becoming Big Brother land?
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, telemarketing is illegal in the UK? Or you just like flapping your arms?
I'd advise all Brits to avoid making condescending comments about privacy right now, or I will be forced to resurrect the threads about how you are all soon getting National ID cards, and having all your license plates tracked with cameras throughout your whole country. Then we can all wave back to our friends that live in Big Brother land... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont have a problem with it, i have nothing to hide. i dont drive, i dont care if other people know where i driave. if the the benefits to me out wiegh the inconveniences to me, i couldnt care less
Yes, sadly, I have to agree.
benefit claimers... ~tilts to the right slightly~
people who get paid to annoy you with unwelcome, unwanted and uninvited calls for products you don't want at times you don't need ~tilts to the left, loses balance and falls over~
What can I say? My state is ranked something like 47th in education. It goes to show that everybody who lives here is a complete idiot.
[edit]
A more logical conclusion is that telemarketting is pretty big here, with dozens of large places doing nationwide phone-spamming from local call centers. Must be the only job ol' Bertha is qualified for....
[/edit]
And as far as the "oh they're just doing their jobs" bit, that's bull. If my job was to punch you in the face and rape your wife, would you say "well it is your job and all. fine by me, jolly good show"? Of course not... And that's what telemarketting is, raping your time.
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, telemarketing is illegal in the UK? Or you just like flapping your arms?
I'd advise all Brits to avoid making condescending comments about privacy right now, or I will be forced to resurrect the threads about how you are all soon getting National ID cards, and having all your license plates tracked with cameras throughout your whole country. Then we can all wave back to our friends that live in Big Brother land... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't wait till someone hacks into the UK national database and reports every car in the country stolen : )
Now if only I could find that list of stuff to do with telemarketers (...that's legal).
I'd rather people tried to stop spam mail more. It fills my yahoo mail box passed it's 4.0 mb limit in less then a day. They'll give me carpal tunnel from having to delete so much useless stuff. Pfffft. I've probably deleted something I've wanted to keep, because some of the things I subscribe to get sent to the Bulk folder too.
Spam just pisses me off. Don't turn 18...yahoo sells your e-mail address to spammers! ...I think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->....started when I turned 18 at least.
Listening to: ...some dudes music down the hall. since apparently no one cares about their music volume anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Counter-Telemarketing
I used to get a lot of telemarketing, having lived in a house with a phone, and I of course found it quite annoying.
Some people try to ask to be removed from marketing lists, but they automatically put you right back on after a few months.
Some people are sure to set up privacy policies with websites and creditors, but again, they can change these back to "share all info" with only giving you thirty days notice. Of course, there is also the "we will process your request within a month" clause that gives them a window to sell your info and/or use it before they have to process your request (and you are automatically IN right when you are approved for the card, etc.).
Really there are only a few ways to deal with telemarketing:
Have fun with them
(1) Tele-terrorism. This is not for the meek. When you answer the phone and start engaging with a telemarketer, talk progressively more quietly. The telemarketer will adjust his or her headset volume to attempt to compensate. Get about as low as you can get (to the "Sir, I can't hear you" level). When they have properly adjusted, fire a foghorn into the receiver.
(2) Death by boredom. Telemarketers rely on the fact that calls take a certain amount of time and have a certain percentage of successes. Mess with this balance by costing them more time and yet giving them nothing in profit.
(a)Infinite hold. One technique is to say "please hold on" and then come back in about a minute and say, "sorry, hold on, UPS is at the door." This will build their confidence that you will come back - of course you don't and they eventually give up.
(b)Use a counterscript. Most telemarketers are reading from a script when they call you, and have preprogrammed responses to evasive manuevers (e.g., "what is your number, can I call you after dinner" techniques, etc.). Instead, you must establish a rapport with them by asking them questions of the form:
i - to whom am I speaking
ii - can you spell your name for me
iii - can you tell me how you found this phone number
iv - is this your full time job? (handle response) - how long have you been doing it? How is your pay determined? Do you like the job? Why do you do the job?
v - do you also live in (your hometown)? (handle response positively - if they live near you, make smalltalk about local events, if they are from elsewhere, chat about the weather over there)
They might get evasive starting with question four. Ask them why the refuse to answer your question. They will probably say that they don't have time and must make other calls - try to get return contact info and set up a date and time to call them. If they say that they want to know why you are asking questions, tell them that you need to establish trust. When they finally get upset, remind them that it was they who called you. Thank them for participating in your survey (especially good for telemarketers who do those 19 minute surveys).
Try legal wrangling
Tell them right away that you want to be put on their do not call list and you want to know what list they got your number from. Adjust your policy with this group and be more proactive about it. Write the Direct Marketing Association to have your name removed.
The only true ways
Get rid of your landline and replace it with a cell phone. Telemarketing to cellphones is illegal. Get rid of your answering machine. Get caller id and only answer when it is somebody you know.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the almighty <a href='http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html' target='_blank'>Counter-script</a>.
He's been posting for like 4 days, the question is, where have YOU been?
I used to get a lot of telemarketing, having lived in a house with a phone, and I of course found it quite annoying.
Some people try to ask to be removed from marketing lists, but they automatically put you right back on after a few months.
Some people are sure to set up privacy policies with websites and creditors, but again, they can change these back to "share all info" with only giving you thirty days notice. Of course, there is also the "we will process your request within a month" clause that gives them a window to sell your info and/or use it before they have to process your request (and you are automatically IN right when you are approved for the card, etc.).
Really there are only a few ways to deal with telemarketing:
Have fun with them
(1) Tele-terrorism. This is not for the meek. When you answer the phone and start engaging with a telemarketer, talk progressively more quietly. The telemarketer will adjust his or her headset volume to attempt to compensate. Get about as low as you can get (to the "Sir, I can't hear you" level). When they have properly adjusted, fire a foghorn into the receiver.
(2) Death by boredom. Telemarketers rely on the fact that calls take a certain amount of time and have a certain percentage of successes. Mess with this balance by costing them more time and yet giving them nothing in profit.
(a)Infinite hold. One technique is to say "please hold on" and then come back in about a minute and say, "sorry, hold on, UPS is at the door." This will build their confidence that you will come back - of course you don't and they eventually give up.
(b)Use a counterscript. Most telemarketers are reading from a script when they call you, and have preprogrammed responses to evasive manuevers (e.g., "what is your number, can I call you after dinner" techniques, etc.). Instead, you must establish a rapport with them by asking them questions of the form:
i - to whom am I speaking
ii - can you spell your name for me
iii - can you tell me how you found this phone number
iv - is this your full time job? (handle response) - how long have you been doing it? How is your pay determined? Do you like the job? Why do you do the job?
v - do you also live in (your hometown)? (handle response positively - if they live near you, make smalltalk about local events, if they are from elsewhere, chat about the weather over there)
They might get evasive starting with question four. Ask them why the refuse to answer your question. They will probably say that they don't have time and must make other calls - try to get return contact info and set up a date and time to call them. If they say that they want to know why you are asking questions, tell them that you need to establish trust. When they finally get upset, remind them that it was they who called you. Thank them for participating in your survey (especially good for telemarketers who do those 19 minute surveys).
Try legal wrangling
Tell them right away that you want to be put on their do not call list and you want to know what list they got your number from. Adjust your policy with this group and be more proactive about it. Write the Direct Marketing Association to have your name removed.
The only true ways
Get rid of your landline and replace it with a cell phone. Telemarketing to cellphones is illegal. Get rid of your answering machine. Get caller id and only answer when it is somebody you know.
And the almighty <a href='http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html' target='_blank'>Counter-script</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Number one is just cruel. That is a person on the other end of that line, just like you, and they deserve to be treated with some respect. Using any of the techniques on that list, in fact, is just plain stupid. There is a very simple, very easy way to get any telemarketer to do whatever you want, without having to be rude or unpleasant like that list tells you to.
Be polite, and ask to be taken off the list. If the telemarketer responds with anything other than "ok, I can do that for you", then simply say "I'm sorry, I don't accept this type of call. Please take me off your list." If they are rude to you, then fine. Be rude. But don't be a jerk just because you like to think of telemarketers as evil people who deserve what they get.
Oh, and any half-decent telemarketer would tear that counterscript to shreds and be off the phone in >30 seconds. I did it many times.
Edit: and the "they add you back on the list" is complete bull. Paranoids like to think that telemarketing companies have no respect for the law, but try going through training and having them say "Nope, that's illegal." "No, you can't do that." "No, if they say that you have to do what they ask."
They do get annoying. I was once called 4 times with in 8 min, From the same company.
This was while I was at college.
They first called for the old guy who used to live in that dorm room, I told them he doesnt live here anymore.
Then 30 sec later. He calls for the old guys roomate who also doesnt live here anymore.
1min later He calls for me. After dealing with him He calls the second room number (my roommates number however both my and his phone ring) I pick it up and its the same guy again. Asking for my room mate.
I had to put up with this for 5 weeks before they finaly got the idea that no I really was not interested.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyhow, on another note, I don't see how anyone should have guff crammed down their throats just because they DARE have the AUDACITY to have a house/email address/telephone.
As much as telemarketing is the sweatshop of the west, its a colossal waste of time, with call centres populated by the braindead. Now, granted, certain forms of telemarketing require higher reasoning skills, and retail experience, but they're usually doing insurance and other useful things that you yourself have signed up for.
TBH they should make them government run, with all the telemarketers phoning up complicated speaking AI, and leaving the rest of us in peace.
Thusly they get paid, learn retail skills, and all going well will get a better job that doesn't involve boring the hell out of other people or making them switch off their dialup in order to return a call about double flipping glazing.
EDIT-
<a href='http://www.legs-world.co.uk/humour/bt/' target='_blank'>http://www.legs-world.co.uk/humour/bt/</a>
Welcome to those wonderful polite UK people.
/me waves at the americans from the UK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, telemarketing is illegal in the UK? Or you just like flapping your arms?
I'd advise all Brits to avoid making condescending comments about privacy right now, or I will be forced to resurrect the threads about how you are all soon getting National ID cards, and having all your license plates tracked with cameras throughout your whole country. Then we can all wave back to our friends that live in Big Brother land... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll defiantly flip my lip in your general direction then, from Denmark. Only stuff you can sell here is insurance, books and newspaper subscriptions. As we have 4 national dailies and about 10 insurance companies, you can guess it isnt a lot of phone marketing. In fact, during the last 3 years I've been contacted by two or something.
<u>There is no list.</u>
It's just illegal to direct market stuff by phone.
Ain't it great to be a dane? I sure think!
I hope that list is kept up. If 50 mio americans has bothered to sign up for it, telemarketing is a real problem.
Don't be so sorry about the brits national ID card. It's not the card thats the problem, it is what the goverment intends to use it for.
We all think of certain occupational forces from the last great war approaching in shape an armed man in uniform yelling
"Ausweis bitte!"
When you get a call, act like you are interested and when they get half way into talking just hang up.
Its so rude and the people will hate you for it!
Or better yet have fun with them.
I have this one girl call me every week.
she called one day and I went on the computer and turned on a porno in the background and started to make sex sounds (oooohhhh YEAH!) as I talked to her.... LOL
Thats the last I have ever heard of her!
Gadzuko obviously has never been called 6 times a day by AT&T. Yes, 6 times. Every day.
90% of the time we just hang up, although some of the time I'll screw with them.
One time I told them to hang on, I had to do something important and put the phone down somewhat near the speakers and kept on playing Action Quake, with the speakers loud enough for them to hear and everything. I left the phone like that for an hour and the suprising thing is they were still on when I picked up the phone! So I just said "no thanks, I changed my mind" and hung up. >:D