Dont let the poison spread!
Maveric
Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Anti-cheats are a must!</div>Please, don't let the poison spread!
Cheaters' Poison-
Cheating will become immidiate; sick, twisted little fools attempt to "pwn" anything that moves and is a enemy. The only way to stop cheating PERMENATLY is to IP BAN them from the server and add it to a blacklist (i think it was ,www.blacklist.com... but im not sure) so that all servers can see their IP's and ban them from their servers acordingly.
Llamaism-
Llamas. Every game has them, there is no avoiding it. It can be anyone from a demented idiot who likes to TK (team kill) or TW (team wound). fortunetly, TA'ing and TK'ing can only be done when Friendly Fire is active. All you can do is give a temporary ban, and give em the name "Llama". If the fool repeats it, ban them permenatly.
Commercialization-
Everything gets consumed by "the machine" (aka Commerial Products). Look at Counter-Strike. it was a nice mod befor v1.0... until valve got ahold of it.
Now look at it. there are hundreds of thousands of servers; but no sense on community. "The machine" will eventually attempt to "eat" everything it sees (like a level 5. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> ) and there is little that can be done to stop it but to say "@&*# OFF!". <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
uh...
ok, i know this <i>is</i> a rant, but i have seen far to many comunities devoured by the poisons of llamaism, corperations, and cheaters. NS is too damn good to be consumed! So, could the dev. team please find and implement a anti-cheat program to stop cheaters from comming into the community? i myself would <b>never</b> cheat. its just not right...
may is suggest this anit-cheat? <a href="http://www.cheating-death.com" target="_blank">Cheating Death Anti-cheat</a>
it is quite effective. <!--emo&:asrifle:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'><!--endemo-->
Cheaters' Poison-
Cheating will become immidiate; sick, twisted little fools attempt to "pwn" anything that moves and is a enemy. The only way to stop cheating PERMENATLY is to IP BAN them from the server and add it to a blacklist (i think it was ,www.blacklist.com... but im not sure) so that all servers can see their IP's and ban them from their servers acordingly.
Llamaism-
Llamas. Every game has them, there is no avoiding it. It can be anyone from a demented idiot who likes to TK (team kill) or TW (team wound). fortunetly, TA'ing and TK'ing can only be done when Friendly Fire is active. All you can do is give a temporary ban, and give em the name "Llama". If the fool repeats it, ban them permenatly.
Commercialization-
Everything gets consumed by "the machine" (aka Commerial Products). Look at Counter-Strike. it was a nice mod befor v1.0... until valve got ahold of it.
Now look at it. there are hundreds of thousands of servers; but no sense on community. "The machine" will eventually attempt to "eat" everything it sees (like a level 5. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> ) and there is little that can be done to stop it but to say "@&*# OFF!". <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
uh...
ok, i know this <i>is</i> a rant, but i have seen far to many comunities devoured by the poisons of llamaism, corperations, and cheaters. NS is too damn good to be consumed! So, could the dev. team please find and implement a anti-cheat program to stop cheaters from comming into the community? i myself would <b>never</b> cheat. its just not right...
may is suggest this anit-cheat? <a href="http://www.cheating-death.com" target="_blank">Cheating Death Anti-cheat</a>
it is quite effective. <!--emo&:asrifle:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'><!--endemo-->
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
/me gets out an anti cheater seige turret and anti cheater tiny
but just imagine a level 5 tker it just not worth thinking about
<!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
would prolly try to make one for ns
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yup. thats what im talking about.
but just imagine a level 5 tker it just not worth thinking about
<!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats easy, go marines, get your commander to get you a mini nuke or a grenade launcher and go blow it up, mmm, tiny tastes good
Make HELLA sure that it is not possible to build a big group of buildings across the marine base thing exits.
Respawn blocking, whether by standing the the way, or building something in the way (NS's passageways are most likely much wider than a typical doorway, but multiple buildings might be build across large hallways, blocking passage for fellow marines) is a classic grief tatic, and I only hope there are ways of preventing it in NS.
Jump over them. Tadaa! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Someday someone has to make a game were it says legally you can't cheat and you can be fined or sent to jail. That will be a find day indeed
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually, in games such as Everquest, if you ARE caught cheating you WILL be fined a hefty amount from doing so. some forms of cheating would be exploiting pathing errors, or duping items. if you ask me, getting just afew more coins in-game is NOT a good idea, as you will lose MUCH more real life coins. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
TiCK, such "greaf" tactics such as team wounding and placing buildings over phase pads and the like ARE illegal and you should expect the admin to deal with the idiots quickly and mercelessly. And, no matter HOW many times you get TK'ed, DONT TK back! you will look just as guilty as the ones that started it!
<!--emo&:asrifle:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:asrifle:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'><!--endemo--> is not good, no matter how you look at it!
PS: i only play; thus cheaters have a greater effect on me.
Jump over them. Tadaa! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is a story of a humble Engineer named TiCK.
*Fade into 2fort*
TiCK like protecting the flag. It is his job. No one likes helping TiCK. People like being sniper. TiCK doesn't care. He builds his sentry gun in the basement in his typical pattern of moving it every time an enemy sees it, as to keep them on their toes. All is well.
One weak spot in TiCK's one man defence is the elevator. TiCK builds his dispenser in the doorway at the top. TiCK can detect when enemys touch them and be prepared for them to drop down. If need be, if TiCK is not in the basement, TiCK can detonate the dispenser and take out the intruder with it to buy some time.
TiCK has everything set up when he recives a message over global chat. *
K1ll@h: tick move ur dis
(Team)TiCK: Why?
K1ll@h: it is blocking the door
(Team)TiCK: You can crouchjump over it. It is there to stop attackers who come by that way.
(Killah tries to jump over without crouching.)
K1ll@h: move it
(Team)TiCK: ...
K1ll@h eventually went around and stopped commenting about it. This was repeated on several occasions. TiCK wondered if these people ever went through the Hazard Course.
*Fade back*
Moral of the story? Some people are too stupid to crouchjump over blockades, but it is nice to know a hall-wide wall of turrets can be jumped over by a single marine. (the turret must be alot shorter than the screenshots I have seen... or the marines can jump very high)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->TiCK, such "greaf" tactics such as team wounding and placing buildings over phase pads and the like ARE illegal and you should expect the admin to deal with the idiots quickly and mercelessly. And, no matter HOW many times you get TK'ed, DONT TK back! you will look just as guilty as the ones that started it!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question wasn't if they were bad or not, it was if blocking areas off with buildings was POSSIBLE. Also, if you are thinking that a player in a mod like Science and Industry that is blocking a doorway will always be kicked off by an admin, you are living in a different world than me.
I mean, why try to correct bunnyhopping in counter-strike? Or dropping grenades and swtiching teams in TF? I mean, an Admin is ALWAYS watching their server 24/7 kicking or banning any llamas. Yeah right.
And you might want to put a break in there, as it looks like you are instrcting me that I should not TK people.
what you did there TiCK, was away from any spawn area, and there was [obviously] another way around. that would be perfectly legal if i were a admin, because you were helping your team; not your fault an idiot couldn't figure out how to get over it.
tell me, though... did that person have a low score? i mean, someone with that low of an iQ would have a low score, wouldn't you think? <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
/idiot sees missile heading toward him
/idiot stays still, hoping missle will not see him
/idiot gets fragged by TiCK
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Also, if you are thinking that a player in a mod like Science and Industry that is blocking a doorway will always be kicked off by an admin, you are living in a different world than me
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, i just play different servers. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
PS: TiCK, i dont really care if you TK or not, its just that when it happens to me, or a important person (thinks up horrible possability of llama killing commander in NS to become commander) i dont really like it.
solve problems with words first, then with lead! as i say <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
sweet. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
PS: sorry, i's using my slow comp, you posted when i was posting the one above. i do have a faster one, but my bro is using it. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
No.
Long answer:
i said "i dont care if you tk [b]or not[/b "] meaning that you dont TK, becuase i haven't played with you yet on a team. and the little act:
/idiot sees missile heading toward him
/idiot stays still, hoping missle will not see him
/idiot gets fragged by TiCK
means that the idiot is not smart enough to move out of the way, being no fault of yours if it were a un-intentional TK and the idiot didn't move outta the way. intentional or not, i look at everyone the same until they do something stupid infront of me, or to me. i never take things from things said. they sometimes get scewd... damn press...
PS: i really hope that huge blacklist gets up for real. but if it were ALL HL servers, that would be abit too drastic. 3 strikes n' your out is always a good thurough way to weed out the miss-guided from the truly cheating.
Oh, it will be a fine day when this comes into action. I can't imagine anything better than having cheaters banned for life. Hopefully it will stop most people because they wont know what they can get away with and what they can't.
I suppose it is impossible to do anything about the Llamas who replace the map WADs with white textures, and replace the Models with bright blue and red. This could be really significant in NS after all it would really spoil being a level one trying to hide in corners, if people just spotted you insantly.
Or they could set it up in such a way that servers could decide whether they want to block out the blacklisted folk or not. It would be sort of like battlenet.. if you prefer to play with cheaters, go ahead and play on the servers not blocking the blacklisted folk. If you want to be assured know cheating retards won't disrupt or even participate in your games.. just play on a blacklist protected server.
But if the blacklist would stop cheaters from connecting to ANY server I would still be a VERY happy camper (not that type of camper).
And make hella sure that it is an automated process, as to avoid some guy to send in abother's WONID to the blacklist and get him kicked off of every server (no, not IP.. blocking by IP is pretty dumb because you may block some LPBs that can't change their IP's but to block a dialup cheater you would have to block the specific IP that changes every time they dialup, or block everyone in a large area by blocking more variations on that IP).
Or even better yet, find a better way than WONID and/or IP. Some folks claim to have millions on WONIDs that work. What if somehow they got ahold of yours? And got you banned from every server? Then they just use another WONID, etc.
Until you can virutally punch someone in the face and break their computer legally over the internet, anti cheating tactics won't detur the smarter cheaters.
On a similar note, what I REALLY hate is seeing someone make a post on a forum that looks something like this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->sup
i just got this mod named day of defet and i need som cheats or hacks
send them to <a href="mailto:pokemaster31337@aol.com">pokemaster31337@aol.com</a>
thx<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mean, one big excuse cheaters use is that they "mastered" the game and it is boring without the cheats. But I would bet 99.9% of cheaters either completely fecking suck or are completely fecking clueless morons.
BUT anyway.
well, keep posting, but make sure you let the other posts get posts too. gtg for now.
This is Maveric,
Signing off.
The commander doesn't build something on his own. He actually needs a marine to step up to the site and start building it. Unless the 2 are in league with each other, I doubt that blocking exits with buildings will happen.
About cheating: cheats could be disastrous for NS... the only thing is that Valve anti-cheat would require getting controlled by corporations which we DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN (see "Server release" thread)
Oh and the only person who thinks CS was going down the hole beta 7ish era aka before valve got ahold of it.
...
no I'm not a cheater, never have, never will.
Only thing I can think of that would give any advantage would be a gamma cheater or somone with a wallhack...
As for cheaters, I believe this is a grey area. I am a "cheater" by some people's definitions. I wrote a script for America's Army that lowers my mouse sensitivity to .5 from 2 when I hold down LeftShift. I also have a bind as follows:
0= Say I would like to inform everyone that I am using a custom sensitivity script; it lowers my mouse sensitivity to .5 when I hold down LeftShift.
9= Say If anyone wants it, join #omgdoom on irc.gamesnet.net and I'll help you set it up.
I always press 0 and 9 when I join a server to let everyone know. I don't define this as cheating but others might. I think users of cheats that everyone would accept as cheats like ones that allow you to see through walls and so forth, should be banned for a period of 2 days or something so it just becomes too much of a pain to cheat. Anyone got any thoughts on this subject?
--Scythe--
<a href="mailto:the_only_scythe@subdimension.com">the_only_scythe@subdimension.com</a>
I hope that day never comes. As much as I hate cheaters, nobody should have any right to invade the privacy of my computer, because the end does NOT justify the means.
As long as games run a substantial portion of their code on client computers, there will be cheating. When NS gets popular, which it probably will, there will be cheats. Valve anti-cheat stops a good portion of them, but not all. Some cheats run as deeply as modifying the graphic drivers; there's no reasonable way to prevent that.
Additionally, the hardcore cheaters have indeed hundreds of CD-Keys. They cannot be banned permanently.
As things stand, we must live with the fact that some people cheat. It's their loss, but it is inevitable.
Actually I consider what you call llamaism (other call it raging) a much greater threat. NS relies on teamwork more than any other mod, and the more you can help your team, the more you can also sabotage it with ill intent. I doubt that the current playtester are wicked enough to discover all the crazy things you can do to hurt your team. We'll see.
You know not the bounds that grief players will go to to get their jollies.
There are DOZENS of occasions where pairs of llamas have worked as a team (ironicly) to commit llama things.
On one TF server back where the speed up cpu speed hack was all the r4ge (pun intended), two llamas HWGllama and Medicllama worked as a speed hacking team. THe HWG would do the typical kill-when-you-step-out-of-respawn 100 rounds per second nonsense, while the medic was crounched behind him speed healing him. Needless to say, there was no Admin in site. They both had the same WONID also. (now the speed up program is regonnized and the game does checks on players to make sure they aren't speeding)
On another server, two engees both would build in and out of respawn, blocking people permanently in the middle respawn of 2fort. (now there are no builds in the area)
I really don't think that it is hard to fathom a commander + marine in cahoots to llamatize a game. All that has to be done is make sure all building cannot be built so close to each other that a lone marine cannot walk between (I doubt a marine could jump over a turret from the looks of it). Therefore, a commander + Marine or just a clueless marine couldn't build a wall of buildings across the exits of marine spawn. I don't know exactly how buildings are destroyed.. I guess the commander could be voted down and then the turrets/buildings taken down, but that is alot of trouble to fix something that can easily be fixed by making structures be a certain width apart.
<!--EDIT|Moleculor|Aug. 09 2002,15:38-->