New Sensory Chambers Degrade Clan Play
CaLFiN
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
The new cloaking upgrade totally degrades clan play. It's almost impossible to go into a game with pre-planned tactics anymore.
With 6+ fairly skilled, cloaked Skulks you find it very hard to build anything outside your base without getting totally wiped out by walking, cloaked Skulks.
I'm talking early game here when this is most important. Before Motion Tracking cloaking is far, far, farrrrrrrrrrrrr too powerful and this has a knock on effect right until Marines lose.
All aliens have to do is cloak on some major routes and they can easily take you out. The only counters are: Scanning, but that alerts the aliens where you are/what you're planning. Shooting wildly at nothing, but that wastes bullets and is based on luck. Or, traveling in groups, but this doesn't happen much due to having seperate groups doing different things.
I say this from a Marine and an Alien point of view. Cloaking can end the game very early and make for a very unfun game as Marines.
This is sometimes the case in public games, but due to the fact aliens don't work together much it can be countered quite well.
With 6+ fairly skilled, cloaked Skulks you find it very hard to build anything outside your base without getting totally wiped out by walking, cloaked Skulks.
I'm talking early game here when this is most important. Before Motion Tracking cloaking is far, far, farrrrrrrrrrrrr too powerful and this has a knock on effect right until Marines lose.
All aliens have to do is cloak on some major routes and they can easily take you out. The only counters are: Scanning, but that alerts the aliens where you are/what you're planning. Shooting wildly at nothing, but that wastes bullets and is based on luck. Or, traveling in groups, but this doesn't happen much due to having seperate groups doing different things.
I say this from a Marine and an Alien point of view. Cloaking can end the game very early and make for a very unfun game as Marines.
This is sometimes the case in public games, but due to the fact aliens don't work together much it can be countered quite well.
Comments
But from an alien point of view keep it, it rocks! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
But it is also the only chamber that can be totally countered; the marines just have to start dropping observatories in all the mini bases which <edit> nullifies </edit> cloak.
it also means that if the marines lock down a hive the aliens cant get defense or movement (which can really hinder some of the higher level evolutions) So I think that its incredible power at the beginning is balanced with its drawbacks in the mid and late game.
build obs early.
I find that if i turn my flashlight on cloaked people have an odd sort of contrast that makes them stand out pretty badly when the light hits them o.O
Once you know that it's not too hard to spot cloaked stuff sitting about in the passages unless they hide as well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sensory is considered the worst upgrade chamber in scrims, if you have played in a scrim before against skilled clans you will never see them use sensory unless they are messing around. sensory can work in pubs but you wont find it used in scrims, so I dont see how it degrades clan play at all
You can't nulligate it in early game, without draw-backs. Another point is that you need an obs + MT which is costly when you need to upgrade weapons/defend hives etc.
It takes a serious + alert commander to counter SC, which isn't the case with MC/DC, so it seems imbalanced to me.
If you're playing in clan play with a commander who isn't serious and alert, you've already beaten yourself. Sensory only works if you allow the gorges to get them up. Speed and having proper counter-upgrades really helps.
You also failed to mention the counter "putting an observatory in the middle of a sensory area and having it decloak everything automatically" or the "shoot the sensory chamber or gorge before cloaking ensues".
Sensory isn't very offensive unless the marines have no clue how to be offensive. It's a delay chamber that <i>can</i> lead to more hives/upgrades/res towers/onos. But that's only if you fail to counter it.
Hahahhaha.... hmmmm yeah sure man sure. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit] elven summed it up all
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It takes a serious + alert commander to counter SC, which isn't the case with MC/DC, so it seems imbalanced to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it takes luck and sometimes your commander is busy doing other things to help you... My point here was really about how much more difficult it is for the comm against SC than MC/DC.
Preparation. Hotkeying your observatories is good. Preparing for attacks with pre-emptive medspam is good. But most importantly, killing the aliens before the sensories even go up.
Commander's a big job. Sensory requires multitasking, as does any RTS or chamber selection. I'd say, as a commander, sensory is probably easier to beat than MC/DC if given the skill.
*cough*cheaters*cough*
honestly, the only way for you to see a cloaked anything is if it is in water or is standing between you and a free res nozle. sure you can see them after lots of practice and going slow, taking time examining the area, etc; but im sure some of that practice includes turning your gamma up to near white-out conditions.
really, if cloaking is getting on your nerves just plop down a obs, tf, and 3 turrets. 2 if you electrify the TF. and all this in a area the size of 4 tightly-bunched up marines.
Respectable = Dodgey gamma?
On maps like Bast and Mineshaft it is very hard to spot cloaked aliens.
My suggestions:
- Make walking slower. I feel a walking Skulk can keep up with a marine too well.
- Walking aliens appear on MT (this would be the mid ground between 2.0 and 2.01e.
- Make cloaking a bit easier to see.
- Remove Scent of Fear and replace it with something equally as good as cloaking. At the moment, the early game Sensory Chamber might aswell be called the "Cloaking Chamber."
*cough*cheaters*cough* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough* nub *cough* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
2. Cloaked aliens are easily spotted in bright areas or when moving, if you know they have sensory.
Welcome to the real world. Population <b>public servers</b>. Clans get whatever scraps they get, and have to cope with the game, not have the game cope with them.
- Make walking slower. I feel a walking Skulk can keep up with a marine too well.
- Walking aliens appear on MT (this would be the mid ground between 2.0 and 2.01e.
- Make cloaking a bit easier to see.
- Remove Scent of Fear and replace it with something equally as good as cloaking. At the moment, the early game Sensory Chamber might aswell be called the "Cloaking Chamber." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me put this straight... it's not the Marines that need a boost vs SC-first... it's SCs that need a boost to be viable as a first chamber!
SCs can most easily be countered buiding obs, as some people already told you, listen and scan... it really is that easy.
You say that building an obs in early game would take too many resources... man it's the best res you could invest in that moment!
SCs first decide that the Aliens have to use a defensive or containment tactic.
Knowing that you can easily cope.
Saying you cannot go into a clanmatch with a pre-made strategy is a GOOD thing, because NS (Commanding in special) is about quickly adepting to the enemy's moves!
Also, your statement is not fully correct... you should always have a "starting strategy" when playing a match; the thing that makes a good team is the abillity to change tactics in game to cope with new situations.
Your suggestions go into the wrong direction, because (as said before) not Marines need a boost there but SCs do.
Also SCs are definitly not "Cloaking Chambers", because if you decide to use SCs you have to set up a NETWORK of them!
With such a network cloaking upgrade is not really necessary if not attacking enemy territory!
And removing SoF is just crazy... it's the best upgrade SCs provide!
Within the range of an SC you're cloaked AND can the enemy with SoF.
Pheromones need to be replaced, definetly not SoF!
And just a little statistic for you:
Most the games I've seen Marines win (Clanmatches and public) were either against SCs first or were rushes (meaning the Aliens could not build or use their chambers).
The most interessting thing about SCs first is that there is a shift in duties of Marines and Commander:
If you can see the enemy, the commander's main work is to coordinate the troops, build and research.
A commander can (or should be able to) rely on his men to defend themselfs for a short while so he can work on other tasks.
If you cannot see the enemy it's up to the Commander not only to guide his men but also to GUARD them... meaning to keep an eye on them, scan their surroundings, gather and provide a lot more tactical information to the troops.
This can be a lot of stress... but once a Commander (and his team) has reached a level where he can cope with SCs, it's a lot easier to beat the Aliens than agains DCs or MCs!
You will just have to learn annd train... you are going into thw wrong direction right now..
Hyper
*cough*cheaters*cough*
honestly, the only way for you to see a cloaked anything is if it is in water or is standing between you and a free res nozle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incorrect. If you have sharp eyes or a video card that delivers proper color depth (or maybe it takes both), you can spot cloaked Aliens with a bit of alertness. If they're moving, it just gets easier. Last night on Lunixmonster, for example, I managed to surprise two cloaked Skulks who were waiting for me to pass by before pouncing, by letting off a burst and nailing one of them. Later in the game, decloaked an Onos who was trying to walk-sneak into our relocated base (we'd not had enough res for a new Obs) when I saw a visual oddity of improperly shifting textures.
Know your hardware, tweak it to work properly, and you have an advantage. No gamma cranking needed. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
We won the clan game on ns_bast with sense first, in about 5 - 10 minutes.
The other clan went sense first. We relocated to atmospheric (testing a tactic I was against.) We lost quite a few people to suprise cloaking aliens, and trying to build sneaky sieges. They got an early Onos, then more followed and our last ditch HA rush failed.
We lasted quite a while against them... But it certainly is powerful if used correctly.
That was my point... Others might not have that advantage of good [or properly configured] hardware. Some of the players in been against play in 640x480 or 800x600, you know, not all that good resolution to see enemies with...
[And arn't you going to lay the hurt on Ziggy for calling me a nub? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ]