Opening Com Placements
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Join Date: 2003-09-11 Member: 20760Members
Join Date: 2003-09-11 Member: 20760Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Opening Com Placements for marines</div> Here it is...
For all mraine commanders in games of 4 vs. 4 or higher; follow these steps for a strong lead:
1) Place 1 IP (2 in large games like 9 vs 9)
2) Place Turret factory
3) Place 4 to 5 turrets which idealy have line of fire over IP's Turret factory and com chair
4) Aliens will usually rush after 2 turrets are made built, be sure to keep an eye out for who is good.
5) After you beat the rush send 1 Marine (2 as squad 5 in big games) as Rambo units
6) regroup your other players, divide them into squads of 2-4 and assign them numbers... send them to Cap Res
7) make com chair Squad 1 for quick jumps back to home
8) build your own armory, give yourself a welder.
9) If your rambos are good, have them harrass the hive
<b><i>You may ask why i wait to build an armory?</i></b>
- Most marines die before they burn through 2 clips! ...and if they are good, they will pick up a dead's marines gun ad use it. Also early in the game you can use your pistol for decent damage to finish an alien.
For all mraine commanders in games of 4 vs. 4 or higher; follow these steps for a strong lead:
1) Place 1 IP (2 in large games like 9 vs 9)
2) Place Turret factory
3) Place 4 to 5 turrets which idealy have line of fire over IP's Turret factory and com chair
4) Aliens will usually rush after 2 turrets are made built, be sure to keep an eye out for who is good.
5) After you beat the rush send 1 Marine (2 as squad 5 in big games) as Rambo units
6) regroup your other players, divide them into squads of 2-4 and assign them numbers... send them to Cap Res
7) make com chair Squad 1 for quick jumps back to home
8) build your own armory, give yourself a welder.
9) If your rambos are good, have them harrass the hive
<b><i>You may ask why i wait to build an armory?</i></b>
- Most marines die before they burn through 2 clips! ...and if they are good, they will pick up a dead's marines gun ad use it. Also early in the game you can use your pistol for decent damage to finish an alien.
Comments
TF in base = lose. Not as much as 1.04 but it just starts with completely the wrong mentality.
IP, IP, Armoury, Obs, RT, RT... FOREVER!!!!!
Have all but one marine building the below stated build order. Have that one marine listen very well to alert the team when it hears footsteps. make sure your marines stop building and pull out thier guns. If the marines are ready, the skulk rush will fail miserably, every time. But you will need turret factory for quick electrification and turrets later in the game for protection when your marines are away
However, I agree with you on the armory situation. while what you say is true, the real reason that I don't build an armory is for one simple reason:
->No armory humpage, meaning
->More objectives completed.
The only time i build an armory is for small games to pass out shotguns because if you don't shotgun rush in small games, the aliens <b>will</b> win. They just get res too freaking fast.
If worst comes to worst, you can always spam ammo, which pays for itself for the res nodes you can take in the saved time.
1 ip is almost never enough, even for smaller games. Its not about if its 'enough' but 'how fast can i get my marines back into action'. I always build 2 ips, no matter what.
From hereon, its up to you. The two obvious choices are: Obs, or Arms Lab.
Obs gives you quick phase gates whch enable you to lockdown your first hive extremely fast and effectively.
getting an arms lab will allow you to get an easy 1 weapon 1 armor upgrade. and let me tell you, those level 1 upgrades can make a HUGE difference.
after you've built one, save res for res nodes + electrify.
I advise you to immediately from the start make about 2-3 marines to take a res node if you think that your base marines are good enough to handle the skulk rush, 1 marine if you don't.
Electrify is an extremely good investment, and its cheaper and faster than turret factory with turrets. Though it will be useless once gorges get the money to oc your res nodes, it'll keep the skulks off them for quite a while.
However, there are points on the map where turret factories are absolutely needed. These res nodes are near or beside hive location, and are the hardest to protect. Thus gorges will walk in safely and place down a few ocs. Though it will still go down, it is alot harder to take down (which is why i reccomend phase gates at all outer res nodes, and turret factory electrification with turrets and phasegate at hive locations). Inner res nodes do not need to be turreted up, electrification will fend off the lone skulks who **** by and its so close by to the marine base, that if a gorge comes by, you can send respawned marines there too.
I think rambo units are completely useless. Once they touch the hive, every alien in the vicinity will own them, good. This gives them an easy 2 - 6 RFK. I'd rather have them staying in base doing nothing (or if you'd like to call it defending) than giving the aliens some res.
Sorry for the long post. Hope i didn't forget anything
holy crap O_O, thats genious
For all mraine commanders in games of 4 vs. 4 or higher; follow these steps for a strong lead:
1) Place 1 IP (2 in large games like 9 vs 9)
2) Place Turret factory
3) Place 4 to 5 turrets which idealy have line of fire over IP's Turret factory and com chair
4) Aliens will usually rush after 2 turrets are made built, be sure to keep an eye out for who is good.
5) After you beat the rush send 1 Marine (2 as squad 5 in big games) as Rambo units
6) regroup your other players, divide them into squads of 2-4 and assign them numbers... send them to Cap Res
7) make com chair Squad 1 for quick jumps back to home
8) build your own armory, give yourself a welder.
9) If your rambos are good, have them harrass the hive
<b><i>You may ask why i wait to build an armory?</i></b>
- Most marines die before they burn through 2 clips! ...and if they are good, they will pick up a dead's marines gun ad use it. Also early in the game you can use your pistol for decent damage to finish an alien. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious?
You're spending half your starting res or more on static defense.. in your base? Meaning, where your Marines actually *spawn*?
Here's a starting setup that might actually make you win instead of dragging out losing:
1 IP
1 Armory
1 pack of mines
3 RT's
1 IP
1 Armslab
Divide the team into one big and one small group. Hav ethe big group pressure aliens, the small one cap resource nodes.
Instead of building a TF in base, yell "INCOMING!" when/if the skulks rush base. Assuming your Marines are dumb enough to all be humping the armory at the same time.
Really, the kind of "strategies" like the one you posted is the reason Marines lose so much on pubs. If you play any other strategy game, are you going to START by fortifying your base, or are you going to expand?
<span style='color:white'>All comments but this one were good points. Teach the newbies, don't bash them. And correct the blind leading the blind when they try </span>
Oh, and that isn't even a good strategy for *small* games. In small games you need to hand out shotguns and go for the aliens first res nodes.
Ps. Nice one Sirus. I'm gonna try that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
TF in base = lose. Not as much as 1.04 but it just starts with completely the wrong mentality.
IP, IP, Armoury, Obs, RT, RT... FOREVER!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or, my favorite: IP, CC, IP, IP, RT, RT, TF, RT, RT, RT, RT, RT ...
Insert some Obs and Armoury when apropriate, and feel free to recycle the first IP. The TF is for electrify, and a couple of turrets at base later in the game.
ip,rt,rt,rt,rt,
double rts and tf ,or hivert with tf
armory,cc,ip a reloc
perhaps obs near the other soldiers ?
provides u with much starting res,
tfs can help ur soldiers survive a the lockdown or a double
the reloc can be done by 1 <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ,cause most alien attacks heading to the tf, but consider the buildingtime
next head for pgs and u controll the !Parts of the map
The early game can win or loose the entire game for you. It is VERY important.
Of course on certain maps there will be different issues, *coughlostcough* but this build configuration allows you to defend your base without mines or turrets, and that gives you a nice boost in the beginning.
I always place in this kind of pattern
----------IP---------- (optional)
--IP-----CC-----IP--
------tur-tf-tur------ (tf elect)
-------Armory-------
tur----Phase----tur
Of course, this is how it is around mid-game.. Never drop TF at game start- you need that start res for RT's not turtling. I always drop 1 extra IP behind the CC, incase the front 2 are being camped by a bunny hoping skulk- or Fade.
Still, any plan that leaves the base somewhat defended and leaves enough res left over for 1 rt + a second one by the time your marines get there is fine.
Picking up another marine's gun is a horrible, horrible thing to rely on. Much of the time a marine death comes because his clip is empty, which will leave a nice empty gun on the ground. On top of that, sometimes you can't spare the few seconds it takes to find and pickup the other marine's hardware.
Then, there's the other side of the issue. Early game skulks are really, really wimpy. It's not hard to take them out, or waste a bunch of ammo laying down suppressive fire. You can go through 2 clips like nothing.
Both your good and trigger-happy marines will need more than 2 clips of lmg ammo. Drop an armory. Marines without ammo are next to useless.
Below are screenshots that give 2 turrets 100% coverage of both IP's and both sides of the TF. Seing how you start with 100 res as marines on most servers, and you gain res from killing aliens, much more important is they don't get the res from killing your marines. You pay the tradeoff up front and trust me its worth it, especially if they spent res on traits at all.
You also get 60% coverage of the com chair.. in which a third turret will take care of.
It is the best formation to take out an anti-rush strategy that is prevelent in the first 2 min in 95% of the
games i have played. Although a relocation can through them for a loop (and is better in a couple maps)
and a Com Chair Wall can do wonders in some maps... I prefer this opening layout, which almost always
provides solid defense in a minmal time.
Below are two screen shots illustrating this example. Even better if you can place the IP against the TF after you electrify it
...just keep it away from the armory.
THe main problems i tend to have is rambo aliens & rushes on pub servers, so building a bunch of undefended rts early is a bad idea... just like sending out all you marines (or all but 1) without building defenses at home; food for thought.
<img src='http://avitar.net/pic/ns/ns1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://avitar.net/pic/ns/ns2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
DO NOT BUILD IPS NEXT TO EACH OTHER
Assuming you've played as alien, you sit munching one IP whilst looking at the other one, then as soon as someone spawns NO MATTER WHICH IP you can munch them at least twice before they have a clue of what is going on. Making the marines instantly re-enter the spawn cue.
It is so easily avoidable, you just have to put them 4 'hours' apart in the green 'clockface' and your 'rine has at least a second to react to an incoming skulk. You could even put a structure between to hinder the skulk's movement.
relocate if needed
build 3 ips
armory
obs
arms lab
(etc for mid-game)
since there are 3 ips, marines can come in realy really fast.
leaving the base open to attack should be no problem. just tell 3 marines to type in "/kill" and 10 seconds later, they got a free ride back to the base to defend it. not to mention... skulks can't take out 3 ips' in 10 seconds. armory is a must, since more or less 1 skulk attacking close = 1 clip lmg + some pistol. (or so seems the case...) the obs is one of the most inportant things. for 3 reasons- PHASE GATES, motion tracking, and distress beacon. the latter 2 are easy to see why the're so useful. but phasegates.... many coms overlook them. marines probably die more getting to a place than at the place itself. hence, a phase gate would eliminate the kills and the other team's benefit, and allow for faster reinforcements... becuase turrets are USELESS... (except for blocking). and arms labs... i would actually consider building 2 of them for faster research if you're rich.... no wait... does that work? 2 of them at once? or was that in a dream? anyway.. upgrades are really important... REAALLLYYY inportant.. and as everyone knows HA's are good defense and jetpacks allow bases in really really really strange places...
"this doesn't look good...." --> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
1 TF
(following items placed close to TF)
IP
Armory
(depending on size of game. > 6 players on team beside myself)
IP
(at some point in the future electrify the TF, stops random skulk attacks near base, if one skulk gets smart and sits outside of elect range, I jump out and kill him, simple as that)
The other major start I see is this:
IP
IP
Armory
TF
(res rush, then about 4 minutes in, a few turrets, and rely on marines to stop skulks, sometimes a little too risky)
Then it's a resource rush. Get 5 including a hive, start electrifying them afterwards. (< 4 minutes in) You may lose one in the process, send someone back to get it. Meanwhile you have a group pressuring their start hive. This will occupy a lot of aliens, and usually result in a few gorge deaths. Afterwards it's a tech race (Armory up, Arms lab, armor 1, gun 3). If you see a fade, sacrifice an upgrade for 3 shotties. If the fade is real good (someone who knows how to avoid a group of shotties and still take out electrified RTs), then drop a mine bomb near an RT and pray you kill it. From there it's just playing it by ear. Aliens will be trying to get the 2nd hive up. You pressure either the start hive or the new hive constantly, while also pressuring/killing alien nodes. Shotties, phases, sieges etc. Try not to sacrifice too many upgrades. HA/JPs should be out after 3/1 gun/armor, and the armory is upgraded. At which time the aliens usually should have an early onos out. Though lately, with a lot of pressuring, I've seen aliens concentrate so much on defence that no one saves for onos. At that point it's a total marine domination. In my experience, if there isn't an early onos and the comm hasn't sacrificed too much res on useless turrets/TFs, then the aliens will be so outteched after 8 minutes it's not funny. Though it's hard to say what always works simply because as a comm now you have to be able to adapt quickly. If you're losing too many nodes, you need a wanderer to rebuild them. If for some reason they have an early onos and you just can't stop it from killing nodes, then have a lone guy follow behind the onos and rebuilds the nodes. It's surprising how aliens just ignore nodes after they kill them as an onos.
I play only in pub servers so that's why electrifying is useful. Obviously this won't work in clan games. I believe they don't even use electrify, and instead tech real fast to fight early fades, since usually clan marines are uber killers against skulks.
While I'm sure at some point a lot of the starts mentioned in this thread may have worked at some point, you have to realize that you would have probably won anyways due to a total skill imbalance towards the marines. The great thing about 2.01 is that the balance is finally getting real close to perfect, and skill is what swings the game. As a rule of thumb, try not to waste money on turrets. They are pretty much useless now. Two (sometimes one) skulks can take down a TF + 3 turrets (at a huge cost), while electrifying a RT only costs you 30. By not electrifying RTs at all, you run the risk of res shortage. You may have teched, but you won't have the res to use it properly. Also now with the fixed phase gates (no more blocking), don't be stingy with them. Place them at key RTs around the map for quick travel. Don't bother with turret farming the first hive you get, waste of res early on.
Tyrsis
It's not so much that the electricity will kill you, but that it forces the skulks to stand away a bit into the open, where you can be shot very easily and get zapped if you try to dodge.
It also buys you some time as the skulk figures out the right place to stand. The window between being zapped and biting the IP isn't large at all since the range increase (to 120?).
Dropping a TF at the start of the game is useful even if you do not build any turrets, because you will need it to electrify your rts.
obviuosly you need res, thats just my setup in spawn, prolly a res after armoury and another after tf.
I like to lump my structures around a tf (electrified) and I dont actually have any turrets in spawn, and 1/2 in base (shottys maybe) depending on the competance of aliens and your rines.
phase is god, if you have 1 rine build a phase near a hive while the rest of your team wait by a phase at base, you can have an entire team at a hive in an instance. Then tf and seige, with plenty of defenders.
However, I havent got the best comm success rate, so it may not work as well as I think it should >.<
First you say why don't you want an armory? most pub players haven't got a clue how to shoot. They just end up armory-humping instead of building rt's. If on the other hand they can shoot, they are generating res to drop them ammo so it all works out.
Why TF? If marines cant shoot to save an rt, rine spawn is usally rushed and killed fast if even 2 decent alien players rush. In addition you can easily counter the "gorge rush" where a few gorges run up with health spray and drop oc's all over your base. It offers a quick siege which has definately saved me several games.
Also as some have you have mentioned I like to place the TF between two IP's... then electrify the TF for extra saftey.
Keep in mind you wouldn't build a tf at all for a shotty rush.. it would be more like IP, IP, Armory, Shottys like mad
Also in a siege map I typically don't have any res problem, but i wait for the first 4 rt's to go up before making anthing else... it forces n00bs on pubs to build them instead of armory-humping.
One of the most important skills a great com has is flexability, and accuracy dertemining marine ability levels. The worse your marines the more turrets you usually need to help them out.
Just remeber that ever kill your turrets & maries make you get res, if your maries die too frequently because of poor defenses you will have an early game fade or ono's to deal with.
Keep in mind that the psychology of seeing a few active turrets keeps away most aliens because they know it will be a hard spot to deal with. If you have your base undefended with everyone in the feild placing rt's it will waste your maries opportunity to advance forward to a hive if they need to keep running back every couple minutes, or on firepower if you keep a marine at base.
Also the com can build at base without much fear in early game which keeps more marines in the feild longer. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have all but one marine building the below stated build order. Have that one marine listen very well to alert the team when it hears footsteps. make sure your marines stop building and pull out thier guns. If the marines are ready, the skulk rush will fail miserably, every time. But you will need turret factory for quick electrification and turrets later in the game for protection when your marines are away
However, I agree with you on the armory situation. while what you say is true, the real reason that I don't build an armory is for one simple reason:
->No armory humpage, meaning
->More objectives completed.
The only time i build an armory is for small games to pass out shotguns because if you don't shotgun rush in small games, the aliens <b>will</b> win. They just get res too freaking fast.
If worst comes to worst, you can always spam ammo, which pays for itself for the res nodes you can take in the saved time.
1 ip is almost never enough, even for smaller games. Its not about if its 'enough' but 'how fast can i get my marines back into action'. I always build 2 ips, no matter what.
From hereon, its up to you. The two obvious choices are: Obs, or Arms Lab.
Obs gives you quick phase gates whch enable you to lockdown your first hive extremely fast and effectively.
getting an arms lab will allow you to get an easy 1 weapon 1 armor upgrade. and let me tell you, those level 1 upgrades can make a HUGE difference.
after you've built one, save res for res nodes + electrify.
I advise you to immediately from the start make about 2-3 marines to take a res node if you think that your base marines are good enough to handle the skulk rush, 1 marine if you don't.
Electrify is an extremely good investment, and its cheaper and faster than turret factory with turrets. Though it will be useless once gorges get the money to oc your res nodes, it'll keep the skulks off them for quite a while.
However, there are points on the map where turret factories are absolutely needed. These res nodes are near or beside hive location, and are the hardest to protect. Thus gorges will walk in safely and place down a few ocs. Though it will still go down, it is alot harder to take down (which is why i reccomend phase gates at all outer res nodes, and turret factory electrification with turrets and phasegate at hive locations). Inner res nodes do not need to be turreted up, electrification will fend off the lone skulks who **** by and its so close by to the marine base, that if a gorge comes by, you can send respawned marines there too.
I think rambo units are completely useless. Once they touch the hive, every alien in the vicinity will own them, good. This gives them an easy 2 - 6 RFK. I'd rather have them staying in base doing nothing (or if you'd like to call it defending) than giving the aliens some res.
Sorry for the long post. Hope i didn't forget anything <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. You can cover blindspots with two turrets as: T ::: TF :::T
2. Your marines will still be building as IP, TF, T,T or IP, Armo, Obs is quite similar.
3. Remeber if you got two turrets up, you are most able to kill the skulks IF they kill your marines first.
4. Stopping to build when youre attacked works in both strats.
5. Your maines will be out fighting after they built the last of the start setup. If they skulkrush comes at 5 mins, youll have either NO defence or one marine guarding and then youre screwed.
6. Armouries should be mae quicker to avoid this godforsaken humping!
7. You really do need an armoury after the initial rescapping is done, to get adv. weapons and adv. Buildings?
8. 1 IP is enough in clangames of 6v6, and I usually build the second after the firstwave of maines died, to save even more time.
9. The lvl 1 weapon uppgrade to the Lmg decrease shots needed to kill a skulk by one.
10. 2-3 marines will get owned and the RTs will get killed unless you either got the aliens pinned down in a hive or playing 6v6 games. RTs First, THEN armouries, extra ip etc.
11. Elecrifying lategame unless you got resoverflow is really pointless...since fades and gorges can destroy them to real fast.
12. Why defned RTs with tfs, when thoseres could be spent on either securing or sieging the hive?
13. Rambos are NOT useless. THey can spawncamp, sneaksiege and kill RTs. Most importantly they divert attention. If you shoot one clip at the hive, most aliens will rush home to kill the people attacking the hive. If you attack RTs, skulks dont attack yours, or if they do they loose one themselves. I agree that rambos are a pian at times but a good one can do serious damage.
Feeling you got more to add?
However, whenever I'm a marine that actually starts when the game starts, I always go out towards one of the hives. If I hear skulks, I kill one, maybe two, get owned, we know where hive is. If I don't find skulks, I usually cap two RTs and whack a gorgie on my way to the hive on the opposite side of the map.
It usually wins the game, unless my fellow marines are complete IDIOTS.. and let's face it, this is an HL mod. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
- put the ips in the back of the base and out of the way so marines running around dont get telefragged
- like the other guys said, spread out your ips so spawning marines have a better chance
- PUT THE ARMORY TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE BASE, AND ALWAYS IN FRONT OF IPS!! It drives me crazy when comms hide the armory in the back of the base, and people get telefragged while going to pick up more ammo. Also, an armory in the front can be good defense, hopefully some of the humpers will start fightingi
As commander i can rarely tell where the aliens are, sometimes i get little circles and give my rines heads up but half the time i don't. Thus i can't see a alien rush approaching. Mt should do this quite easily for marines and marines should call the rush for the team.
This could be a good strat due to the high casuality rate of rines harrassing aliens and thus a automatic defence of spawning rines, but i do think phases would have to get up pretty quick for those times when marines don't die.
Expanding is important and much better than static defence, however expanding too quickly will leave your structures relying on either static defense to cover them*ironic* or a quick game which doesn't always happen.
I donno, I have never seen mines work really well for anything except softening onos and thus probably not seen them used probably.
Perhaps this is why i always lose as com <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> *sorry for the splattered ideas*
2 skul wif regen can constantly spawn kill the marine. i had try it on my local server <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->