sunshine!! ROFL gg it should be called Environmental Friendly Mario!!!
haha i only remember original zelda and ocarina and all those for n64.... good games <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
GameCube games for the younger audience are nice, and im not dissin' N for their lack of mature titles... its just that if they want to keep their younger players hooked, why dont they have "progressive" titles... right now the majority of GC games i've seen/hear of are all either rated E or T, but there's none/few M rated games that i know of.
Forgive me for the next comparision, but usually game companies act like the tabaco industry. They target the young ones and hope they get them hooked. Nintendo just isn't doing that... The line seems to stop or atleast fall-off at the "Teen" rating. NTM that once they find a good/excellent idea they just run with it and drain it dry of any life like a zombie eating a person's neck... *cough*
How many mario games have there been or games where mario makes a apearance? 20? 30? Now that's overkill of a idea [especially if those majority of games are to remain in one market area; kids].
____ Again, not making any suggestion that nintendo is stuck in "kiddie game production mode" but they should really expand their library of games to the wider majority of gamers; and the only way that i can see that's even remotely open is the "Mature" or "Teen" market. And hey, if they hit the mother load in a M or T rated game, just think how many spin-offs and squells <i>that</i> game will spawn! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
K, now i gotta wash my hands for mentioning the tabaco industry in a gaming thread on these forums...
I once had this arguement about 'ratings' when buying anime as a kid. Me and some friends were looking through the anime vids and I picked out 'Slayers' because it had a cool font and stuff. The minute it was in my hands I knew I wanted it... but my friends cried out "hey! that's a PG it must be cr*p!" Years later I'm still glad I bought slayers because it's one of my all time favs.
What's the point? The point is, it doesn't really matter what rating something gets or to some degree even who it's 'aimed' at. Quality is quality and poop is poop. If you're going to really diss Ninty don't use age limits as some sort of scoring system or even something that's important. Sometimes gore for the sake of gore just can't replace the game actually being good =/
Well if you check through the thread, the problem is that childish simplistic gameplay just wont sustain a console. It'll try to corner a niche market, but the problem is ANOTHER system is offering that same niche, at a cheaper price, in bigger numbers.
Second, today I went into a few retail shops. One had no GC for sale at all, having withdrawn the line. The second had GCs but a very slim range. The third had 10 racks of PS2 software, plus 3 racks of Preowned...... the GC section covered 2 racks. I haven't seen that since the dying days of the N64/DC.
I have been reading through the thread dafty, I've been posting in it for long enough to know o.O
maybe you should reread my post... a 'rating' doesn't imply childish or simplistic gameplay, heck you're proving my point that people seem entangled in the idea if it doesn't bleed it's not hard ><
The GC is failing part due to the ideal that its a 'kiddies console' by shallow people who are more interested in some vain self-image than actually enjoying good games. I <b>will</b> agree that all their games seem a lot easier than the older ones but I can't really judge it for myself. I went back and played megaman 2 for a bit of fun remembering it had been as hard as steel. Was it? nuh-uh... I've been playing games for so long now it was a breeze. People complain all the time that games are getting easier but I find myself really wondering if it's not just them getting better, nostalgia certainly has a good set of rose-tinted glasses =/
Unfortunately people don't change and living by image has forever been one of societies bigger failings, Sony wins. The End <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Geminosity, you are very spot on about the difficulty. Gamers as an overall has just gotten better at gaming. We are not as easily "flabbergasted" by puzzles and seemingly inconceivable problems. We've played too many games and thus quickly spot the patterns utilized by the game devs. Same thing has happened in many other artforms, like movie, literature etc. The audience has acquired savvynes.
Though I still stand by my claim that Command (CapCom 1985) is the hardest arcade game ever released <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
He's not implying that he won't buy games because of their rating. He's saying that there is a lack of mature games, therefore 96% of GC games can be bought by children.
Saying it is a kiddies console is not being shallow. I say it's a kiddies console because I have researched it, played it and came to that conclusion.
For Nintendo to get mature audiences they will have to surpass the expectations of those who remember that the SNES was fantastic.
Nintendo is just rehashing old games in order to appeal to the people who remember it. That doesn't appeal to people who never owned a Nintendo, and it's not converting anybody into buying a Gamecube. I have never played the original Metroid Prime, would that make me want to play the new one? It makes me think that Nintendo are just producing games for Nintendo fans. This is the same for a lot of Gamecube games. It is not making Joe "Never Played Nintendo" Bloggs want to buy a Gamecube.
to be honest Metroid prime only really borrows the name and items from the older games; play-wise I find it different from the old Super Metroid and Metroid games... infact I'd go so far as to say that I prefer the older ones ^^;
I suppose what I meant to say is that people who don't play it because they class it as a kiddy console strike me as unforgivably shallow. If someone doesn't want to play Metroid Prime because they don't like First Person Adventure games then no problem, if they're not up for Mario Party or Monkey Ball because simple but fun party games aren't their thing then fine. My real gripe is essentially anyone who rights them off just because they are 'kids games' and 'kids games arent cool'. That's the kind of mentality that has people running about with brand-names on every item they're wearing and I'm just increasingly jaded of people who chase after acceptance when all they really have to do is just do what they want to do, wear what they want and play what they want.
you're right on re-hashing the old names though... I'm getting a little tired of not hearing new names but of the new names I've seen on all 3 formats little seem to hold the excitement of my first meeting with Megaman (capcom) or Samus <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem really is that Ninty has next to no 3rd party going on ever since the fall off after the SNES. If they had larger 3rd party support I doubt people would really be too 'image conscious' about the GC and nintendos core of 'wide range' appeal (I love cute graphics, so sue me =3 ) titles which come off as 'kiddy' wouldn't stain the console's image so much. Nintendo's been making the same type of games since the NES, it's just that nobody really made a deal about it until nintendo was the only one left producing the vast majority of titles for it's own machine (that and a few struggles with a bloodless mortal combat o.O ) Looking back my favourite titles (less kiddy ones at least) came from such giants as capcom and konami who had tons of titles on the old machines. Now there's not that many from them on the little box at all aside from the RE series and megaman internet battle or something like that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
...aaaaand now I think I've started rambling <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you're reading the thread, as you claim, why harp on about ratings and cartoony graphics? Why make some bizarre connection between ratings and gameplay when my comment was SPECIFICALLY saying that the problem wasn't ratings?
If you'd read what people are saying, the problem is the LIMITED MARKET that Nintendo are aiming at.
"heck you're proving my point that people seem entangled in the idea if it doesn't bleed it's not hard"
No, you're proving my point that you don't read posts. Where exactly have I linked cartoony graphics to bad gameplay? Oh thats right, I haven't. You did. So can we stop with what you THINK (or want to think) I'm saying and actually read what I AM saying.
The GC is falling apart because its market is geared towards younger players. Its range is DOMINATED by child orientated games. Thats ok for kids - but it won't sustain a market. If Nintendo are to survive they have to compete with the PS2. That means a WIDE RANGE of games catering to ALL NICHES. Something which they are NOT doing. Barring the hoary old gamer (who I've already said could afford to but a GC just for the hell of it) few people will be familiar with the Zelda games. People who played with Sega, then a Saturn, then a PS and eventually PS2 will have ZERO knowledge of Mario/Zelda/DK games and will certainly NOT be tempted into buying a GC by these games.
Old Nintendo gamers wont mind, but unfortunately catering to children and old established customers will not expand your market. If Nintendo had cornered the children's market then yes, you'd expand. However Nintendo is losing out to Sony purely because Sony offers hundreds of titles at low prices (PS1 games are extremely affordable and offer the same if not better gameplay in some cases).
Games are very much getting easier. I can pull out a ton of old titles that relied on skill rather than flashy graphics. Including several megaman games that rely on accurate jumping ability to get through a level - not simply who can click a button the fastest. Enjoyable gameplay is becoming a lost art.
Cal Fin has been paying attention to whats being said here. I like the GC, I like Nintendo, and I've had to play the GC in order to sell the fershlugginer thing, but the hard fact is it's a giant lemon for a non-nintendo gamer. I love the Zelda and Harvest Moon games but I'm not shelling out the money just to play 4 games over and over. I did it for the Dreamcast and even then it was because the games were cutprice reduced to clear (mwahah, come to me Soul Calibur and MvC2).
Its not the graphics, its not the absence of blood, its the sheer lack of anything that screams out "I am a worthy purchase with a long future that does not involve 15 sequels of the same title". At least with a PS2 there's always new titles.... whereas the GC has virtually nothing but nintendo label sequels in its future.
As I keep reiterating, Ninetendo is focused on a market that it is nowhere remotely near cornering. Fact is, the only people buying the GC are old Nintendo players or desperate RE fans. Nintendo need to widen the GC's appeal - in fact I think it's too late for the GC, they need to focus on the next console.
I was prepared to buy a GC myself, based on the strength of the advertising campaign and press releases pushing an advanced mature console, a sign of Nintendo growing up from the child market. Sadly I was disappointed, but glad that I didn't buy one.
I expect that within a year I'll be able to purchase the GC and the (by that time) 10 titles that actually warrant a purchase - for a very affordable price.
Oh, and if I detest any console, it's probably the X-Box.
Fair enough but excuse me if me saying that people shouldn't judge based on "childish ratings" followed by a post in which you say "the problem is that childish simplistic gameplay..." made me mistakenly think you were linking ratings to childish gameplay. Ok, you've said now that you don't and you're p1ssed that I said you did, but don't go accusing me of not reading or putting words in your mouth; there's a difference between a perfectly logical misunderstanding and ignorance and I prefer it when people don't confuse the two huh? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick, but while there's nothing wrong with correcting people, even hinting that I don't read a topic before posting is as close to flame bait as you'll get with me ><
Regarding the actual argument; I mentioned that I beat hell out of megaman 2 despite remembering it to be hard. It was hard for me but it's not now; not by a long shot. Does this mean games get easier as they age? I doubt it... it probably means that years of gaming experience are making me, and all other experienced gamers for that matter, more skilled. Things that were once challenging aren't so difficult anymore and being a bit of a retro gamer (I still pull out the megadrive, snes and the rest for giggles) I can say that gunstar heroes, megaman 2, probotector and all the other games I used to enjoy maybe even because they were difficult feel like a breeze now. New games like ikuraga and the elusive ein-hander are definitely still hard as well as being old-school <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dunno... maybe it's possible that they are getting slightly easier but as I mentioned, nostalgia has a bit of a warping effect on the truth sometimes so it's not exactly easy to judge <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
bleh... I'll admit I got a little heated because one or two posts touched on a sort of viewpoint that makes my blood boil, but lets calm down a bit here huh? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Note the big spaces. Games may be RATED for any audience.... but that is no guarantee of their playability. Games may LOOK comic-book or cartoony...... but then so did Conker's Bad Fur Day. Simplistic gameplay is a quirk of the engine, and unrelated to the rating system or the graphics - and can also be GOOD or BAD.
So the sidestory about Slayers has little/nothing to do with the problem of GAMEPLAY.
"saying that people shouldn't judge based on "childish ratings" followed by a post in which you say "the problem is that childish simplistic gameplay..." made me mistakenly think you were linking ratings to childish gameplay."
Thats not a logical misunderstanding, because ratings just aren't gameplay. Ratings are nowhere related to gameplay. Some "universal" rated games have controls/rules that'll tax the minds of the mature audience. But I'm not saying anything we don't already know.
"it probably means that years of gaming experience are making me, and all other experienced gamers for that matter, more skilled. Things that were once challenging aren't so difficult anymore and being a bit of a retro gamer (I still pull out the megadrive, snes and the rest for giggles) I can say that gunstar heroes, megaman 2, probotector and all the other games I used to enjoy maybe even because they were difficult feel like a breeze now."
Tho at the release of Probotector, I found it to be an easy game..... while still having difficulty with the older Jet Set Willy. In fact I can still thrash Probotector while having difficulties with Megaman 2. Mostly because Megaman 2 relies extensively on jumping. Much like Mario.
I could play tons of games and STILL get no further in Megaman because the jump puzzle does not interest me.
All of this is beside the point however. The key issue is that Nintendo focus the bulk of their efforts on the younger gamer. Games are themed with the young gamer in mind. By happy coincidence these games also rely extensively on previous Nintendo titles - Smash Bros, Pokemon, Starwing, Mario. Because they allegedly "build" on the older titles, Nintendo tries to encourage the "older" Nintendo gamers to buy GC.
So effectively their market becomes Children, and Nintendo Fanboys.... with the occasional "well it has MGS and RE, so I'll buy it" style fanboy. There is precious little in the GC release list that will tempt someone from the PS2 or Xbox.
"I'll admit I got a little heated because one or two posts touched on a sort of viewpoint that makes my blood boil"
Nope, the posts didn't touch on it at all, barring an OT diversion about film ratings. Again, its nothing to do with a game's LOOK, or its RATING, its to do with the gameplay and the repetitive nature of Nintendo's releases. Its all repeats. Same gameplay, over and over.
The GC can't live on that. No console or franchise can. Nintendo need to widen their market, attract the Sony crowd and the sort of casual gamer who's looking for some fun. They need to attract the people who buy consoles for their kids - flexibility is the key to the console market, as proven by the demise of the Mega CD, 32x, Saturn, N64, Jaguar etc.
*draws a line in the sand in front of Geminosity, and stands next to Gem*
I'm an avid Nintendo fan. I bought my PS2 first only because it had FFX and MGS2, not because it had a wide range of titles. The same thing goes for my GameCube, I got it for a few specific titles. Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, FF: C. Chronicles, Rogue Leader.
Now this entire debate about PS2 game quality...have you actually looked @ a majority of ps2 games? You find a gem, that is 1 good game, out of every hundred or so. If you scroll down the Game Revolution PS2 game review page, the thing that sticks out the most is that a majority of games got a C or B rating. Only major company titles really win the A's.
I look at the Gcube game reviews, and yes it is a lot smaller, but pick almost any game out @ random and you get an not-half-bad title. I'll grant you some of them are not as entertaining as the blood-filled GTA but if you try to you can probably enjoy it.
The thing that made me hate PC gamers was when I asked my team in Firearms once what they thought of the GameCube. One guy's response was "Oh, you mean the g@ycube?"
I've never really written off the PS2 as being full of junk without any saving graces, there's obviously some good games buried in the thousands of millions of titles on the old black friezeblock; a bit like the old SNES and Megadrive really =3 I might say it's full of poop but on the basis of titles like 'guilty gear XXX' I've almost been willing to throw aside my weird dislike of the 'comercial' console and go in search of some 3rd party controllers for it that don't give my hands uncontrollable and painful cramping <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Wish I knew why it was only the playstation pads that do that to me though o.O
as for the misreading necro, I still stand by it being pretty logical though mistaken. It's not really worth trudging up the arguement though is it? I could sit here and try and point out why it's an easy mistake to make but then we'd just be dragging this all off topic and I'd probably lose my temper properly this time =s let's just leave it that I didn't get the message the way it was intended, regardless of how excusable/inexcusable either of us think the mess up was huh?
I'm still not so sure about games getting easier, but as you pointed out about 3 times now or something they're still 'aimed' at a younger audience/nintendo niche group and in a lot of cases they are recycling not just names but gameplay a lot with their re-hash titles. That doesn't stop them being fun but it does mean that they're isn't a whole lot of massive innovation on the console like you get with... uh... dance mat titles? ^^; Ok, so I can't think of any massive influxes of majorly new innovations of gaming on the console market really, PS2, Xbox or otherwise it still seems like the same old gameplay most of the time just with new clothes (names, characters, stories) but occassionally you get something new and weird like pikmin, dark cloud, vib ribbon, parappa the rappa and stuff =3
The main reason Ratings jumped into my posts was aside from gameplay and graphics it's still influencial on sales and there were a few mentions of 'mature' titles which just sounds like a rating thing to me. Course, when I talk about ratings I don't mean people just look to see whether it has a big M emblazened on the front (though I've seen some kids do that o.O ), heck, do you remember why so many people wanted to try out mortal combat when it first hit the arcades? The graphics were crud even by that day's standards and the gameplay was about as deep as a kiddies paddling pool but it was drenched with <span style='color:red'>blood</span> and you could do super-horrible-gory-horrific fatalities on your almost dead victim. One of my flatmates was saying how much he used to love the game just because it was so gore filled when he was young ^^ Course... it's just one of many things but it still comes as part of the image and to some degree the loss of nintendo's popularity in the masses. I still remember the fuss that was made when the snes version of mortal combat had the blood removed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Before you get on my case again remember I'm saying it's just one of many contributing factors including simplistic gameplay and looks, not THE contributing factor to it's kiddy console image.
The real damage for nintendo as far as I'm still concerned is 3rd party development though... everyone remembers the snes and that had a ton of 3rd party developers. The N64? nuh-uh, and the GC isn't exactly brimming with them either because they're all sitting over at sony's side where they've been since ninty got on their bad side by refusing to switch to CD tech so early and keeping a tight hold on the number of releases allowed (and charging quite a price for development tools/cartridges =s). If they really wanted to come back they need to get into bed with the devs again and pull them over. They've got a few titles from capcom on the way and a few other things but it's still a drop in the ocean compared to what's getting pumped out on the fairy light machine PS2 and the giant chunk of neon green and black plastic we call the x-box -.-
...actually, now that I think of it, what do people define as complex gameplay anyways?
Nintendo's major downfall was losing RARE, how could you nintendo <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> ARGH!!!!! (You need an angrier smiley)
Anyways...
CONKERS BAD FUR DAY!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!!!!111111 Who's played that??? Now whoever says that nintendo games are childish/have simple or crap storyline/don't have enough blood/don't have enough swearing and violence/arent funny/uninnovative/the heroes don't have girlfriends/don't make fun of popular movies such as The Matrix or Saving Private Ryan/are deviod of squirrels then go buy a nintendo and that game for $20 bucks and then you can clock the game (You might need a walkthrough some of the puzzles are hard to figure out <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and after you've done all that you will, and yes you honestly will proclaim it THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME (Aside from the final fantasy series <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> ) The you can fly down here to New Zealand and kiss my tight A$$.
EDIT: I can't spell <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SmokeNova+Sep 24 2003, 01:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmokeNova @ Sep 24 2003, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The thing that made me hate PC gamers was when I asked my team in Firearms once what they thought of the GameCube. One guy's response was "Oh, you mean the g@ycube?" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hehe, that did it for you?
----
Consoles can be fun. I used to play the PlayStation back before any of the new systems came out. I would spend upwards of $35-$40 for a game (all the while gasping at the N64's $50 tag). I would play that game for a period of around 2 weeks (at most, sometimes I beat it in 3 days, which is when the replayability dropped to 0). After that, I would either have a coaster, or could return it to the store to get a used price for the game (at most, $15, usually $8). Repeat this for every game. The things eventually just didn't have any fun to them.
N64 just had too cartoonish graphics for me. The games that were touted as being one of the greatest just looked like glorified side scrollers - too many jumping puzzles. Not a big fan of jumping puzzles.
But yes, PC gamers can be bad. Don't think that all are kind. Just have to find good players amongst the bad, that's all.
Its not about PS2 game quality - we're well aware of the "problem" with third party games. You get some gems, you get some lemons, but the point is PS2 games are so easily churned out they can be sold for a much cheaper price. The initial PS releases were dire, with only perhaps 10 being of ANY value. And as each month passed, more games were added..... some dire, some good. But always in a big glut.
Now, roll the clock on, and you have TONS of games for ALL niches of varying quality. This is just not the case with Nintendo products. Releases are comparatively slim and dominated by sequels. While the same COULD be said of some PS2 brands, the important difference is the wide range of OPTIONS in the PS2 range. Much like the PC. And also like the PC, the PS2 has a "budget" range (the Platinum series) as well as the pseudo-budget range of PS1 titles.
Simply put, the PS2 market is saturated with games, meaning you'll never get bored and that no matter how bizarre your gaming taste, you can have over a dozen games vying for position in that niche. Not so with Nintendo. Which makes every lemon all the more bitter.
Additionally, its a fallacy to compare GC and PS2 reviews, since GC reviews are compared to GC games, and PS2 reviews are compared to PS2 games. Hence a stealth sneaker will probably never get past C on the PS2 because it'll be held up to MGS2........... whereas a GC game has very few games in the same genre to compare it to.
"The thing that made me hate PC gamers was when I asked my team in Firearms once what they thought of the GameCube. One guy's response was "Oh, you mean the g@ycube?" "
Shoot him. The Gamecube is not a bad console, and the games are not "bad" games....... there's just so little choice and given Ninty's track history there's not much chance of improvement.
Gem-
Innovation is easier to experience on the PS2 because its cheap to make a game. Even if it bombs, the price can be slashed in half and the game STILL turn profit. For the GC, you can't afford to screw up. Smart money goes to the PS2.
The PS2 is flooded with third person games - the TR saga, Metal Gear series, DMC, C-12, syphon filter, Fear Effect......... what does the GC have to show? Nowhere near as much diversity. And although certain third person games weren't great, you can now snap them up for a very affordable price - something Nintendo CANNOT counter.
Mortal Kombat......... meh, it had a gimmick, a gimmick that worked for a bit and has now become obsolete. The SF saga has beaten MK to death. And without gore. Yes, I understand SOME elements of society who need that M rating...... but thats nothing to do with the GC.
I tried to clarify this several posts ago, but the "kiddy console" thing keeps coming up, when really its a total non issue. Nintendo need an image overhaul and a wider market to SUSTAIN that overhaul.
Thus I believe the GC to be doomed, and Nintendo better get their skates on with their NEXT console....... Enabling support for GC games would be a start, and widening the market would be a very good boost.
Seriously, the number one pasttime of PS1 gamers was walking past fullprice poor quality Nintendo games to the PS Platinum section and picking up 2 high class games with the same money..... and still have change to spare.
Note - oh look, GC price being lowered as we enter the holiday period. Now everyone who bought the PS2 has the option of a GC for playing RE, MGS, and his GBA games on <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, the GCube's GameBoyAdvance player is another great reason to buy a GCube now.
The thing is that Nintendo lost it's edge, but it's honing the blade slowly. They are letting more and more varied games be developed *i'll get back to that after I get to read my new EGM, which I sadly don't have @ college*
I actually heard they've already got their next console well on the go but the name 'dolphin' crept up again so I'm not sure how reliable that news was =/
I'll agree that the Gamecube is already a somewhat a lost cause though I think it did a bit better than the N64, their already problematic sales weren't helped by a number of electronic sales chains killing off their stock of GCs lol.
well MK really appealed to the young rebellious kids for a bit because blood was cool or something. Things like the Street Fighter series, Capcom vs SNK 2 and Guilty Gear XXX appeal to the more hardcore fighting fans (they're the 3 titles you see used in most tournaments these days) and because they've got a deep and interesting fighting system they kept going long after the MK's gore novelty wore off. You still get gimmicky fighters now though that pop up from time to time; DoA3 used a different trick from the bloody antics of MK though and sold a few xboxes along the way =P
You're right about backward compatibility though, I think that really setup the PS2 along with it's DVD playing abilities at the start when there weren't many titles out for it. GC was built to purely be a games machine but that means until the big titles came along it just gathered dust between the increasingly infrequent games of monkey ball -.-
I'm still waiting eagerly for f-zero gc all the same ^~
Yah. I mean myself, I'm hoarding res for a GC, RE, RE0, MGTS, etc.... all the good titles, and probably the GBA player too (does it play the old GB games too? Me ponders).
Basically pick em up dirt cheap once the console bombs. I feel like such a vulture.
But then I know people who did the same with the N64 - got a pokemon n64 with perfect dark, goldeneye, etc, and then stripped that mofo down and made a better looking case.
Edit
- Just wanted to point out that I'm an RE and MG fanboy, hence my dire need for those games, and little else...... SW Rogue series perhaps too?
<!--QuoteBegin--Necrosis+Sep 24 2003, 06:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Sep 24 2003, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and probably the GBA player too (does it play the old GB games too? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you mean the Game Boy Advance SP, no, it doesn't play the old monochrome Game Boy games.
I agree, Nintendo is a bit kiddy-focused. But you must remember that Nintendo is Japanese, and they have different values and stuff from Americans or other countries. Another thing is that most of the games that are released for Nintendo's systems are made by other companies.
I personally will always favor Nintendo to anything else. They are about quality more than money, and the salaries that some of the developers get in Japan will support that.
The N64 was a great system. The reason that games weren't released on it was because that the technology in it was so advanced for the time, that creating games was quite difficult. They had the hardware for it, but probably not the software for making the games (modelling programs, C functions for using the processor and co-processor work, etc.)
The graphics on the N64 were great, too. If the graphics in a game were blurry, then it's not necessarily the system's fault, but the developer's fault. If you don't have a good engine for a game, then even the best supercomputer wouldn't look good.
Nintendo has indeed come down since the release of the GameCube. Mario Sunshine was too child-focused and was a remake of Mario64. Smash Brothers: Melee was the best game early on. With the release of Zelda: The Windwaker, they basically screwed themselves. They had a perfect engine and perfect graphics, but then they decided to throw it away because it would scare children. They fail to realize that fans will often stick with the company and play the games until they're in their late 50s. They are too focused on the young kids. I mean, why program a cell-shading engine? They suck, and the models often require a lot more polygons for the shaded effect.
actually the whole new 'look' for zelda instead of the ultra cool real-fest that they showed in the gannon v link fight at the GC showreel before it's release wasn't the way shigsy wanted to do it. He didn't actually like adult link and felt it had started to drift from his original vision... windwaker was a return to his personal image of how zelda should be =/
One of the main reason Ninty aim for kids is the japanese market; in japan the games-buying market is predominantly kids... it's only when you look outside of japan it changes. the US buyers tend more towards the teens than child ages and in the EU the ages go up even higher into the 20s-30s. Trust me, I did a class on this stuff =3
But the flipside to consider is that George Lucas + Big Budget = Jar Jar Binks.
I do enjoy the Link games, but at the same time there has to be a point where someone says "no".
Your short description of global sales seems a bit floppy, in that it doesnt take into account who's buying the console/games in the first place. And AFAIK games in Japan were popular with teenagers also.
The market you need to aim for is about, say, 14 plus. At that age people are in some sort of small job and can actually buy games and consoles. Beneath that age they're relying on other people.
Shigeru Miyamoto is what makes Nintendo live. Let us not forget that.
But do look @ the GCube now. It's becoming more adult as they realize they need to expand. Soul Calibur II/F-Zero GX are two more good reasons for a GCube, ontop of RE, REZ, ED, MP, LoZ:WW, MP2.
Comments
gg it should be called Environmental Friendly Mario!!!
haha i only remember original zelda and ocarina and all those for n64.... good games <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Forgive me for the next comparision, but usually game companies act like the tabaco industry. They target the young ones and hope they get them hooked. Nintendo just isn't doing that... The line seems to stop or atleast fall-off at the "Teen" rating. NTM that once they find a good/excellent idea they just run with it and drain it dry of any life like a zombie eating a person's neck... *cough*
How many mario games have there been or games where mario makes a apearance? 20? 30? Now that's overkill of a idea [especially if those majority of games are to remain in one market area; kids].
____
Again, not making any suggestion that nintendo is stuck in "kiddie game production mode" but they should really expand their library of games to the wider majority of gamers; and the only way that i can see that's even remotely open is the "Mature" or "Teen" market. And hey, if they hit the mother load in a M or T rated game, just think how many spin-offs and squells <i>that</i> game will spawn! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
K, now i gotta wash my hands for mentioning the tabaco industry in a gaming thread on these forums...
Me and some friends were looking through the anime vids and I picked out 'Slayers' because it had a cool font and stuff. The minute it was in my hands I knew I wanted it... but my friends cried out "hey! that's a PG it must be cr*p!"
Years later I'm still glad I bought slayers because it's one of my all time favs.
What's the point? The point is, it doesn't really matter what rating something gets or to some degree even who it's 'aimed' at. Quality is quality and poop is poop.
If you're going to really diss Ninty don't use age limits as some sort of scoring system or even something that's important.
Sometimes gore for the sake of gore just can't replace the game actually being good =/
Second, today I went into a few retail shops. One had no GC for sale at all, having withdrawn the line. The second had GCs but a very slim range. The third had 10 racks of PS2 software, plus 3 racks of Preowned...... the GC section covered 2 racks. I haven't seen that since the dying days of the N64/DC.
maybe you should reread my post... a 'rating' doesn't imply childish or simplistic gameplay, heck you're proving my point that people seem entangled in the idea if it doesn't bleed it's not hard ><
The GC is failing part due to the ideal that its a 'kiddies console' by shallow people who are more interested in some vain self-image than actually enjoying good games. I <b>will</b> agree that all their games seem a lot easier than the older ones but I can't really judge it for myself.
I went back and played megaman 2 for a bit of fun remembering it had been as hard as steel. Was it? nuh-uh... I've been playing games for so long now it was a breeze.
People complain all the time that games are getting easier but I find myself really wondering if it's not just them getting better, nostalgia certainly has a good set of rose-tinted glasses =/
Unfortunately people don't change and living by image has forever been one of societies bigger failings, Sony wins. The End <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Though I still stand by my claim that Command (CapCom 1985) is the hardest arcade game ever released <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Saying it is a kiddies console is not being shallow. I say it's a kiddies console because I have researched it, played it and came to that conclusion.
For Nintendo to get mature audiences they will have to surpass the expectations of those who remember that the SNES was fantastic.
Nintendo is just rehashing old games in order to appeal to the people who remember it. That doesn't appeal to people who never owned a Nintendo, and it's not converting anybody into buying a Gamecube. I have never played the original Metroid Prime, would that make me want to play the new one? It makes me think that Nintendo are just producing games for Nintendo fans. This is the same for a lot of Gamecube games. It is not making Joe "Never Played Nintendo" Bloggs want to buy a Gamecube.
I suppose what I meant to say is that people who don't play it because they class it as a kiddy console strike me as unforgivably shallow. If someone doesn't want to play Metroid Prime because they don't like First Person Adventure games then no problem, if they're not up for Mario Party or Monkey Ball because simple but fun party games aren't their thing then fine. My real gripe is essentially anyone who rights them off just because they are 'kids games' and 'kids games arent cool'.
That's the kind of mentality that has people running about with brand-names on every item they're wearing and I'm just increasingly jaded of people who chase after acceptance when all they really have to do is just do what they want to do, wear what they want and play what they want.
you're right on re-hashing the old names though... I'm getting a little tired of not hearing new names but of the new names I've seen on all 3 formats little seem to hold the excitement of my first meeting with Megaman (capcom) or Samus <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem really is that Ninty has next to no 3rd party going on ever since the fall off after the SNES. If they had larger 3rd party support I doubt people would really be too 'image conscious' about the GC and nintendos core of 'wide range' appeal (I love cute graphics, so sue me =3 ) titles which come off as 'kiddy' wouldn't stain the console's image so much. Nintendo's been making the same type of games since the NES, it's just that nobody really made a deal about it until nintendo was the only one left producing the vast majority of titles for it's own machine (that and a few struggles with a bloodless mortal combat o.O )
Looking back my favourite titles (less kiddy ones at least) came from such giants as capcom and konami who had tons of titles on the old machines. Now there's not that many from them on the little box at all aside from the RE series and megaman internet battle or something like that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
...aaaaand now I think I've started rambling <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you'd read what people are saying, the problem is the LIMITED MARKET that Nintendo are aiming at.
"heck you're proving my point that people seem entangled in the idea if it doesn't bleed it's not hard"
No, you're proving my point that you don't read posts. Where exactly have I linked cartoony graphics to bad gameplay? Oh thats right, I haven't. You did. So can we stop with what you THINK (or want to think) I'm saying and actually read what I AM saying.
The GC is falling apart because its market is geared towards younger players. Its range is DOMINATED by child orientated games. Thats ok for kids - but it won't sustain a market. If Nintendo are to survive they have to compete with the PS2. That means a WIDE RANGE of games catering to ALL NICHES. Something which they are NOT doing. Barring the hoary old gamer (who I've already said could afford to but a GC just for the hell of it) few people will be familiar with the Zelda games. People who played with Sega, then a Saturn, then a PS and eventually PS2 will have ZERO knowledge of Mario/Zelda/DK games and will certainly NOT be tempted into buying a GC by these games.
Old Nintendo gamers wont mind, but unfortunately catering to children and old established customers will not expand your market. If Nintendo had cornered the children's market then yes, you'd expand. However Nintendo is losing out to Sony purely because Sony offers hundreds of titles at low prices (PS1 games are extremely affordable and offer the same if not better gameplay in some cases).
Games are very much getting easier. I can pull out a ton of old titles that relied on skill rather than flashy graphics. Including several megaman games that rely on accurate jumping ability to get through a level - not simply who can click a button the fastest. Enjoyable gameplay is becoming a lost art.
Cal Fin has been paying attention to whats being said here. I like the GC, I like Nintendo, and I've had to play the GC in order to sell the fershlugginer thing, but the hard fact is it's a giant lemon for a non-nintendo gamer. I love the Zelda and Harvest Moon games but I'm not shelling out the money just to play 4 games over and over. I did it for the Dreamcast and even then it was because the games were cutprice reduced to clear (mwahah, come to me Soul Calibur and MvC2).
Its not the graphics, its not the absence of blood, its the sheer lack of anything that screams out "I am a worthy purchase with a long future that does not involve 15 sequels of the same title". At least with a PS2 there's always new titles.... whereas the GC has virtually nothing but nintendo label sequels in its future.
As I keep reiterating, Ninetendo is focused on a market that it is nowhere remotely near cornering. Fact is, the only people buying the GC are old Nintendo players or desperate RE fans. Nintendo need to widen the GC's appeal - in fact I think it's too late for the GC, they need to focus on the next console.
I was prepared to buy a GC myself, based on the strength of the advertising campaign and press releases pushing an advanced mature console, a sign of Nintendo growing up from the child market. Sadly I was disappointed, but glad that I didn't buy one.
I expect that within a year I'll be able to purchase the GC and the (by that time) 10 titles that actually warrant a purchase - for a very affordable price.
Oh, and if I detest any console, it's probably the X-Box.
Ok, you've said now that you don't and you're p1ssed that I said you did, but don't go accusing me of not reading or putting words in your mouth; there's a difference between a perfectly logical misunderstanding and ignorance and I prefer it when people don't confuse the two huh? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick, but while there's nothing wrong with correcting people, even hinting that I don't read a topic before posting is as close to flame bait as you'll get with me ><
Regarding the actual argument; I mentioned that I beat hell out of megaman 2 despite remembering it to be hard.
It was hard for me but it's not now; not by a long shot. Does this mean games get easier as they age? I doubt it... it probably means that years of gaming experience are making me, and all other experienced gamers for that matter, more skilled. Things that were once challenging aren't so difficult anymore and being a bit of a retro gamer (I still pull out the megadrive, snes and the rest for giggles) I can say that gunstar heroes, megaman 2, probotector and all the other games I used to enjoy maybe even because they were difficult feel like a breeze now.
New games like ikuraga and the elusive ein-hander are definitely still hard as well as being old-school <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dunno... maybe it's possible that they are getting slightly easier but as I mentioned, nostalgia has a bit of a warping effect on the truth sometimes so it's not exactly easy to judge <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
bleh... I'll admit I got a little heated because one or two posts touched on a sort of viewpoint that makes my blood boil, but lets calm down a bit here huh? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Note the big spaces. Games may be RATED for any audience.... but that is no guarantee of their playability. Games may LOOK comic-book or cartoony...... but then so did Conker's Bad Fur Day. Simplistic gameplay is a quirk of the engine, and unrelated to the rating system or the graphics - and can also be GOOD or BAD.
So the sidestory about Slayers has little/nothing to do with the problem of GAMEPLAY.
"saying that people shouldn't judge based on "childish ratings" followed by a post in which you say "the problem is that childish simplistic gameplay..." made me mistakenly think you were linking ratings to childish gameplay."
Thats not a logical misunderstanding, because ratings just aren't gameplay. Ratings are nowhere related to gameplay. Some "universal" rated games have controls/rules that'll tax the minds of the mature audience. But I'm not saying anything we don't already know.
"it probably means that years of gaming experience are making me, and all other experienced gamers for that matter, more skilled. Things that were once challenging aren't so difficult anymore and being a bit of a retro gamer (I still pull out the megadrive, snes and the rest for giggles) I can say that gunstar heroes, megaman 2, probotector and all the other games I used to enjoy maybe even because they were difficult feel like a breeze now."
Tho at the release of Probotector, I found it to be an easy game..... while still having difficulty with the older Jet Set Willy. In fact I can still thrash Probotector while having difficulties with Megaman 2. Mostly because Megaman 2 relies extensively on jumping. Much like Mario.
I could play tons of games and STILL get no further in Megaman because the jump puzzle does not interest me.
All of this is beside the point however. The key issue is that Nintendo focus the bulk of their efforts on the younger gamer. Games are themed with the young gamer in mind. By happy coincidence these games also rely extensively on previous Nintendo titles - Smash Bros, Pokemon, Starwing, Mario. Because they allegedly "build" on the older titles, Nintendo tries to encourage the "older" Nintendo gamers to buy GC.
So effectively their market becomes Children, and Nintendo Fanboys.... with the occasional "well it has MGS and RE, so I'll buy it" style fanboy. There is precious little in the GC release list that will tempt someone from the PS2 or Xbox.
"I'll admit I got a little heated because one or two posts touched on a sort of viewpoint that makes my blood boil"
Nope, the posts didn't touch on it at all, barring an OT diversion about film ratings. Again, its nothing to do with a game's LOOK, or its RATING, its to do with the gameplay and the repetitive nature of Nintendo's releases. Its all repeats. Same gameplay, over and over.
The GC can't live on that. No console or franchise can. Nintendo need to widen their market, attract the Sony crowd and the sort of casual gamer who's looking for some fun. They need to attract the people who buy consoles for their kids - flexibility is the key to the console market, as proven by the demise of the Mega CD, 32x, Saturn, N64, Jaguar etc.
I'm an avid Nintendo fan. I bought my PS2 first only because it had FFX and MGS2, not because it had a wide range of titles. The same thing goes for my GameCube, I got it for a few specific titles. Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, FF: C. Chronicles, Rogue Leader.
Now this entire debate about PS2 game quality...have you actually looked @ a majority of ps2 games? You find a gem, that is 1 good game, out of every hundred or so. If you scroll down the Game Revolution PS2 game review page, the thing that sticks out the most is that a majority of games got a C or B rating. Only major company titles really win the A's.
I look at the Gcube game reviews, and yes it is a lot smaller, but pick almost any game out @ random and you get an not-half-bad title. I'll grant you some of them are not as entertaining as the blood-filled GTA but if you try to you can probably enjoy it.
The thing that made me hate PC gamers was when I asked my team in Firearms once what they thought of the GameCube. One guy's response was "Oh, you mean the g@ycube?"
I've never really written off the PS2 as being full of junk without any saving graces, there's obviously some good games buried in the thousands of millions of titles on the old black friezeblock; a bit like the old SNES and Megadrive really =3
I might say it's full of poop but on the basis of titles like 'guilty gear XXX' I've almost been willing to throw aside my weird dislike of the 'comercial' console and go in search of some 3rd party controllers for it that don't give my hands uncontrollable and painful cramping <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Wish I knew why it was only the playstation pads that do that to me though o.O
as for the misreading necro, I still stand by it being pretty logical though mistaken.
It's not really worth trudging up the arguement though is it? I could sit here and try and point out why it's an easy mistake to make but then we'd just be dragging this all off topic and I'd probably lose my temper properly this time =s
let's just leave it that I didn't get the message the way it was intended, regardless of how excusable/inexcusable either of us think the mess up was huh?
I'm still not so sure about games getting easier, but as you pointed out about 3 times now or something they're still 'aimed' at a younger audience/nintendo niche group and in a lot of cases they are recycling not just names but gameplay a lot with their re-hash titles. That doesn't stop them being fun but it does mean that they're isn't a whole lot of massive innovation on the console like you get with... uh... dance mat titles? ^^;
Ok, so I can't think of any massive influxes of majorly new innovations of gaming on the console market really, PS2, Xbox or otherwise it still seems like the same old gameplay most of the time just with new clothes (names, characters, stories) but occassionally you get something new and weird like pikmin, dark cloud, vib ribbon, parappa the rappa and stuff =3
The main reason Ratings jumped into my posts was aside from gameplay and graphics it's still influencial on sales and there were a few mentions of 'mature' titles which just sounds like a rating thing to me. Course, when I talk about ratings I don't mean people just look to see whether it has a big M emblazened on the front (though I've seen some kids do that o.O ), heck, do you remember why so many people wanted to try out mortal combat when it first hit the arcades? The graphics were crud even by that day's standards and the gameplay was about as deep as a kiddies paddling pool but it was drenched with <span style='color:red'>blood</span> and you could do super-horrible-gory-horrific fatalities on your almost dead victim. One of my flatmates was saying how much he used to love the game just because it was so gore filled when he was young ^^
Course... it's just one of many things but it still comes as part of the image and to some degree the loss of nintendo's popularity in the masses. I still remember the fuss that was made when the snes version of mortal combat had the blood removed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Before you get on my case again remember I'm saying it's just one of many contributing factors including simplistic gameplay and looks, not THE contributing factor to it's kiddy console image.
The real damage for nintendo as far as I'm still concerned is 3rd party development though... everyone remembers the snes and that had a ton of 3rd party developers. The N64? nuh-uh, and the GC isn't exactly brimming with them either because they're all sitting over at sony's side where they've been since ninty got on their bad side by refusing to switch to CD tech so early and keeping a tight hold on the number of releases allowed (and charging quite a price for development tools/cartridges =s).
If they really wanted to come back they need to get into bed with the devs again and pull them over. They've got a few titles from capcom on the way and a few other things but it's still a drop in the ocean compared to what's getting pumped out on the fairy light machine PS2 and the giant chunk of neon green and black plastic we call the x-box -.-
...actually, now that I think of it, what do people define as complex gameplay anyways?
Anyways...
CONKERS BAD FUR DAY!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!!!!111111
Who's played that???
Now whoever says that nintendo games are childish/have simple or crap storyline/don't have enough blood/don't have enough swearing and violence/arent funny/uninnovative/the heroes don't have girlfriends/don't make fun of popular movies such as The Matrix or Saving Private Ryan/are deviod of squirrels then go buy a nintendo and that game for $20 bucks and then you can clock the game (You might need a walkthrough some of the puzzles are hard to figure out <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and after you've done all that you will, and yes you honestly will proclaim it THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME (Aside from the final fantasy series <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> ) The you can fly down here to New Zealand and kiss my tight A$$.
EDIT: I can't spell <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
No I brought an X-Box. So now I have both and I don't miss out on Metroid Prime or any of the new Rare games w00t!
Anyway back to volleyboob
I mean Volleyboobies
I mean Volleyball.....
...
...
...
Dang
But not for that reason.............<span style='font-size:7.1pt;line-height:100%'>I think.......</span>
Hehe, that did it for you?
----
Consoles can be fun. I used to play the PlayStation back before any of the new systems came out. I would spend upwards of $35-$40 for a game (all the while gasping at the N64's $50 tag). I would play that game for a period of around 2 weeks (at most, sometimes I beat it in 3 days, which is when the replayability dropped to 0). After that, I would either have a coaster, or could return it to the store to get a used price for the game (at most, $15, usually $8). Repeat this for every game. The things eventually just didn't have any fun to them.
N64 just had too cartoonish graphics for me. The games that were touted as being one of the greatest just looked like glorified side scrollers - too many jumping puzzles. Not a big fan of jumping puzzles.
But yes, PC gamers can be bad. Don't think that all are kind. Just have to find good players amongst the bad, that's all.
Its not about PS2 game quality - we're well aware of the "problem" with third party games. You get some gems, you get some lemons, but the point is PS2 games are so easily churned out they can be sold for a much cheaper price. The initial PS releases were dire, with only perhaps 10 being of ANY value. And as each month passed, more games were added..... some dire, some good. But always in a big glut.
Now, roll the clock on, and you have TONS of games for ALL niches of varying quality. This is just not the case with Nintendo products. Releases are comparatively slim and dominated by sequels. While the same COULD be said of some PS2 brands, the important difference is the wide range of OPTIONS in the PS2 range. Much like the PC. And also like the PC, the PS2 has a "budget" range (the Platinum series) as well as the pseudo-budget range of PS1 titles.
Simply put, the PS2 market is saturated with games, meaning you'll never get bored and that no matter how bizarre your gaming taste, you can have over a dozen games vying for position in that niche. Not so with Nintendo. Which makes every lemon all the more bitter.
Additionally, its a fallacy to compare GC and PS2 reviews, since GC reviews are compared to GC games, and PS2 reviews are compared to PS2 games. Hence a stealth sneaker will probably never get past C on the PS2 because it'll be held up to MGS2........... whereas a GC game has very few games in the same genre to compare it to.
"The thing that made me hate PC gamers was when I asked my team in Firearms once what they thought of the GameCube. One guy's response was "Oh, you mean the g@ycube?" "
Shoot him. The Gamecube is not a bad console, and the games are not "bad" games....... there's just so little choice and given Ninty's track history there's not much chance of improvement.
Gem-
Innovation is easier to experience on the PS2 because its cheap to make a game. Even if it bombs, the price can be slashed in half and the game STILL turn profit. For the GC, you can't afford to screw up. Smart money goes to the PS2.
The PS2 is flooded with third person games - the TR saga, Metal Gear series, DMC, C-12, syphon filter, Fear Effect......... what does the GC have to show? Nowhere near as much diversity. And although certain third person games weren't great, you can now snap them up for a very affordable price - something Nintendo CANNOT counter.
Mortal Kombat......... meh, it had a gimmick, a gimmick that worked for a bit and has now become obsolete. The SF saga has beaten MK to death. And without gore. Yes, I understand SOME elements of society who need that M rating...... but thats nothing to do with the GC.
I tried to clarify this several posts ago, but the "kiddy console" thing keeps coming up, when really its a total non issue. Nintendo need an image overhaul and a wider market to SUSTAIN that overhaul.
Thus I believe the GC to be doomed, and Nintendo better get their skates on with their NEXT console....... Enabling support for GC games would be a start, and widening the market would be a very good boost.
Seriously, the number one pasttime of PS1 gamers was walking past fullprice poor quality Nintendo games to the PS Platinum section and picking up 2 high class games with the same money..... and still have change to spare.
Note - oh look, GC price being lowered as we enter the holiday period. Now everyone who bought the PS2 has the option of a GC for playing RE, MGS, and his GBA games on <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The thing is that Nintendo lost it's edge, but it's honing the blade slowly. They are letting more and more varied games be developed *i'll get back to that after I get to read my new EGM, which I sadly don't have @ college*
I'll agree that the Gamecube is already a somewhat a lost cause though I think it did a bit better than the N64, their already problematic sales weren't helped by a number of electronic sales chains killing off their stock of GCs lol.
well MK really appealed to the young rebellious kids for a bit because blood was cool or something. Things like the Street Fighter series, Capcom vs SNK 2 and Guilty Gear XXX appeal to the more hardcore fighting fans (they're the 3 titles you see used in most tournaments these days) and because they've got a deep and interesting fighting system they kept going long after the MK's gore novelty wore off. You still get gimmicky fighters now though that pop up from time to time; DoA3 used a different trick from the bloody antics of MK though and sold a few xboxes along the way =P
You're right about backward compatibility though, I think that really setup the PS2 along with it's DVD playing abilities at the start when there weren't many titles out for it. GC was built to purely be a games machine but that means until the big titles came along it just gathered dust between the increasingly infrequent games of monkey ball -.-
I'm still waiting eagerly for f-zero gc all the same ^~
Basically pick em up dirt cheap once the console bombs. I feel like such a vulture.
But then I know people who did the same with the N64 - got a pokemon n64 with perfect dark, goldeneye, etc, and then stripped that mofo down and made a better looking case.
Edit
- Just wanted to point out that I'm an RE and MG fanboy, hence my dire need for those games, and little else...... SW Rogue series perhaps too?
If you mean the Game Boy Advance SP, no, it doesn't play the old monochrome Game Boy games.
but I have a GameBoy, GameBoy Pocket, planning on possibly an GameBoy Advance SP.
and the GCube GBA player
Hmm..... I'd heard the GBA had difficulties with *some* older games, but was unaware the SP refused to play monochrome at all.
Or am I missing the specifics here?
they don't have any trouble with gameboy colour ones at least ^^
I personally will always favor Nintendo to anything else. They are about quality more than money, and the salaries that some of the developers get in Japan will support that.
The N64 was a great system. The reason that games weren't released on it was because that the technology in it was so advanced for the time, that creating games was quite difficult. They had the hardware for it, but probably not the software for making the games (modelling programs, C functions for using the processor and co-processor work, etc.)
The graphics on the N64 were great, too. If the graphics in a game were blurry, then it's not necessarily the system's fault, but the developer's fault. If you don't have a good engine for a game, then even the best supercomputer wouldn't look good.
Nintendo has indeed come down since the release of the GameCube. Mario Sunshine was too child-focused and was a remake of Mario64. Smash Brothers: Melee was the best game early on. With the release of Zelda: The Windwaker, they basically screwed themselves. They had a perfect engine and perfect graphics, but then they decided to throw it away because it would scare children. They fail to realize that fans will often stick with the company and play the games until they're in their late 50s. They are too focused on the young kids. I mean, why program a cell-shading engine? They suck, and the models often require a lot more polygons for the shaded effect.
End of rant.
He didn't actually like adult link and felt it had started to drift from his original vision... windwaker was a return to his personal image of how zelda should be =/
One of the main reason Ninty aim for kids is the japanese market; in japan the games-buying market is predominantly kids... it's only when you look outside of japan it changes. the US buyers tend more towards the teens than child ages and in the EU the ages go up even higher into the 20s-30s. Trust me, I did a class on this stuff =3
But the flipside to consider is that George Lucas + Big Budget = Jar Jar Binks.
I do enjoy the Link games, but at the same time there has to be a point where someone says "no".
Your short description of global sales seems a bit floppy, in that it doesnt take into account who's buying the console/games in the first place. And AFAIK games in Japan were popular with teenagers also.
The market you need to aim for is about, say, 14 plus. At that age people are in some sort of small job and can actually buy games and consoles. Beneath that age they're relying on other people.
But do look @ the GCube now. It's becoming more adult as they realize they need to expand. Soul Calibur II/F-Zero GX are two more good reasons for a GCube, ontop of RE, REZ, ED, MP, LoZ:WW, MP2.