Linux And Asia
MonsieurEvil
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Will the penguin conquer Beijing?</div> <a href='http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2003/tc2003098_1035_tc058.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con..._1035_tc058.htm</a>
What? MonsE posting an article about Linux that does not cast it in the light of a crappy hobby OS? Yes folks, my capitalistic/Darwinian side (go read a book, commies) that encourages competition in the marketplace forces me to point out this article. It's been talked about for a couple years actually, but this is the first firming up of real plans that I've seen recently... I'm not sure how well this will go in SK though, the world's biggest Windows gamers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Will the Penguin Conquer Asia?
Japan, China, and South Kore are planning a joint effort to develop Linux as an alternative to Microsoft's pricey Windows
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer have to be a little worried these days. In Asia, the movement to use an alternative to Microsoft's Windows is picking up steam. Government officials from Japan to India increasingly are looking at Linux, the open-source operating system, as a way to keep costs down and stay in touch with the latest fashions in info-tech circles. While they haven't talked about it much, figuring out a way to stop -- or at least slow -- this trend has to be a top priority for the folks at Microsoft (MSFT ).
The latest blow to Gates & Co. and boost to Linux came in early September from Japanese Trade Minister Takeo Hiranuma, who announced a plan calling for Japan, China, and South Korea to work together on research and development for Linux-based systems that can be used in the next generation of cellular phones, digital still cameras, and other devices.
It makes perfect sense for the Japanese and Koreans to team up with China. The Middle Kingdom already is the world's biggest market for mobile phones and is rising quickly in markets for high-tech products, too. Many Chinese government officials are attracted by what they see at Linux' lower costs and increased security. And the Japanese and Koreans could win big by helping Asia's giant develop those systems.
SERIOUS THREAT. The three-way cooperative agreement is far from being a done deal. The countries still have to work out the details, and a lot can still go wrong, especially given the bad blood that exists among the three historically. The enmity that many Koreans feel toward Japan, their former colonizer and current rival, is matched only by the enmity that many Chinese feel toward Japan, their former invader and current rival.
And even though Chinese electronics upstarts like TCL, Bird, and Legend are still no match for global powerhouses such as Sony (SNE ), Matsushita (MC ), and Samsung (SSNLF ), the Chinese are starting to push into overseas markets. Such frictions could ultimately grind this cooperative effort to a haul.
Still, other signs indicate that Windows is under threat in Asia:
• Across China, government offices are starting to shop around for alternative operating systems.
• Last month, China's biggest developer of Linux software, Beijing-based Red Flag Linux, announced that it was forming an alliance with Hewlett-Packard (HPQ ) to distribute its products not just in China but around the world.
• Asia's biggest consumer-electronics makers -- including Sony, Matsushita, and Samsung Electronics -- announced in July that they were forming the CE Linux Forum to promote the development of Linux-based machines.
• A growing number of Indian companies and government offices are adopting Linux.
The computer viruses that swept the globe last month may also make Linux more popular in Asia, since they were aimed at computers running Windows. Ironically, Microsoft may also have itself to blame for some of the business lost to Linux. The U.S. company has been waging a fierce lobbying campaign to get Asians to use legitimate, copyrighted software rather than knock-offs and counterfeits. Pirated software has remained immensely popular in many Asian countries, especially China, where the Business Software Alliance estimated more than 90% of the software was counterfeit in 2001. The situation is not so bad in India, but it's still a problem, with almost three-fourths of the software used there pirated.
To fight this problem, one tactics employed by the Business Software Alliance -- an industry group that counts Microsoft as one of its key members -- has been to work with government officials and convince them to use only the real thing. That has been successful in some of the major cities, such as Shanghai.
REDMOND'S RESPONSE. However, in China pirated software is so popular because it's so much cheaper than the legitimate stuff. Despite the hype about it being an economic superpower, China is still an emerging-market economy where most people make less than $1,000 a year. That means the real Windows is often too expensive. If it's no longer acceptable to use a fake version of Windows that's much cheaper, then government officials have even more incentive to find home-grown alternatives such as Linux-based systems.
It's not as if Microsoft is unmindful of the problem. For the past few years, a series of top execs have been to the Middle Kingdom, flying the flag of the Colossus of Redmond and talking up Microsoft products (see BW Online, 11/18/03, "Asia: Microsoft's Land of Opportunity"). This month, it named a new chief of China operations, Tim Chen, who was in charge of Motorola China.
Chen has a lot of experience dealing with local upstarts, as Motorola's (MOT ) dominance in the handset market has become threatened by the growing popularity of Chinese made models. That experience will come in handy as he faces a growing Linux challenge.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note that unintelligent fanboy troll posts will be deleted and their creators as well...
What? MonsE posting an article about Linux that does not cast it in the light of a crappy hobby OS? Yes folks, my capitalistic/Darwinian side (go read a book, commies) that encourages competition in the marketplace forces me to point out this article. It's been talked about for a couple years actually, but this is the first firming up of real plans that I've seen recently... I'm not sure how well this will go in SK though, the world's biggest Windows gamers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Will the Penguin Conquer Asia?
Japan, China, and South Kore are planning a joint effort to develop Linux as an alternative to Microsoft's pricey Windows
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer have to be a little worried these days. In Asia, the movement to use an alternative to Microsoft's Windows is picking up steam. Government officials from Japan to India increasingly are looking at Linux, the open-source operating system, as a way to keep costs down and stay in touch with the latest fashions in info-tech circles. While they haven't talked about it much, figuring out a way to stop -- or at least slow -- this trend has to be a top priority for the folks at Microsoft (MSFT ).
The latest blow to Gates & Co. and boost to Linux came in early September from Japanese Trade Minister Takeo Hiranuma, who announced a plan calling for Japan, China, and South Korea to work together on research and development for Linux-based systems that can be used in the next generation of cellular phones, digital still cameras, and other devices.
It makes perfect sense for the Japanese and Koreans to team up with China. The Middle Kingdom already is the world's biggest market for mobile phones and is rising quickly in markets for high-tech products, too. Many Chinese government officials are attracted by what they see at Linux' lower costs and increased security. And the Japanese and Koreans could win big by helping Asia's giant develop those systems.
SERIOUS THREAT. The three-way cooperative agreement is far from being a done deal. The countries still have to work out the details, and a lot can still go wrong, especially given the bad blood that exists among the three historically. The enmity that many Koreans feel toward Japan, their former colonizer and current rival, is matched only by the enmity that many Chinese feel toward Japan, their former invader and current rival.
And even though Chinese electronics upstarts like TCL, Bird, and Legend are still no match for global powerhouses such as Sony (SNE ), Matsushita (MC ), and Samsung (SSNLF ), the Chinese are starting to push into overseas markets. Such frictions could ultimately grind this cooperative effort to a haul.
Still, other signs indicate that Windows is under threat in Asia:
• Across China, government offices are starting to shop around for alternative operating systems.
• Last month, China's biggest developer of Linux software, Beijing-based Red Flag Linux, announced that it was forming an alliance with Hewlett-Packard (HPQ ) to distribute its products not just in China but around the world.
• Asia's biggest consumer-electronics makers -- including Sony, Matsushita, and Samsung Electronics -- announced in July that they were forming the CE Linux Forum to promote the development of Linux-based machines.
• A growing number of Indian companies and government offices are adopting Linux.
The computer viruses that swept the globe last month may also make Linux more popular in Asia, since they were aimed at computers running Windows. Ironically, Microsoft may also have itself to blame for some of the business lost to Linux. The U.S. company has been waging a fierce lobbying campaign to get Asians to use legitimate, copyrighted software rather than knock-offs and counterfeits. Pirated software has remained immensely popular in many Asian countries, especially China, where the Business Software Alliance estimated more than 90% of the software was counterfeit in 2001. The situation is not so bad in India, but it's still a problem, with almost three-fourths of the software used there pirated.
To fight this problem, one tactics employed by the Business Software Alliance -- an industry group that counts Microsoft as one of its key members -- has been to work with government officials and convince them to use only the real thing. That has been successful in some of the major cities, such as Shanghai.
REDMOND'S RESPONSE. However, in China pirated software is so popular because it's so much cheaper than the legitimate stuff. Despite the hype about it being an economic superpower, China is still an emerging-market economy where most people make less than $1,000 a year. That means the real Windows is often too expensive. If it's no longer acceptable to use a fake version of Windows that's much cheaper, then government officials have even more incentive to find home-grown alternatives such as Linux-based systems.
It's not as if Microsoft is unmindful of the problem. For the past few years, a series of top execs have been to the Middle Kingdom, flying the flag of the Colossus of Redmond and talking up Microsoft products (see BW Online, 11/18/03, "Asia: Microsoft's Land of Opportunity"). This month, it named a new chief of China operations, Tim Chen, who was in charge of Motorola China.
Chen has a lot of experience dealing with local upstarts, as Motorola's (MOT ) dominance in the handset market has become threatened by the growing popularity of Chinese made models. That experience will come in handy as he faces a growing Linux challenge.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note that unintelligent fanboy troll posts will be deleted and their creators as well...
Comments
Does this mean I can't make a picture of a giant tux in the center of Tokyo, breathing fire and yelling "ALL UR COMPUTERS ARE BELONG TO LINUX!"?
Anyway, this sounds pretty neat. It'll be interesting to see how well they adapt to Linux.
Yes. Nor can I have a gigantic open-source web browser stepping on tanks as people scream 'OH NO, IT'S MOZILLA!!!'
Does this mean I can't make a picture of a giant tux in the center of Tokyo, breathing fire and yelling "ALL UR COMPUTERS ARE BELONG TO LINUX!"?
Anyway, this sounds pretty neat. It'll be interesting to see how well they adapt to Linux. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? Like this?
<img src='http://www.myimgs.com/data/dubers/top_photo1%20copy.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Just like CWAG himself!
XD
Just like CWAG himself!
XD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sadly it stunk. Slackware/Redhat are good enough for me
Besides, an intelligent IT director for a corporate entity which has heavy computer use would use Linux of course
But otherwise he'd be all over it!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is a reason that 99.9% of all companies choose to run Windows as their primary desktop OS, and it's not because they like paying for software. It's because they have work to get done, and Linux is still not ready for desktop computing in the workplace, or enterprise computing in general. It basically is fine for people that want to run a cheap webserver, and after that you're battling.
But don't take my word for it... get a job! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Again, I think that Linux has its place, but it is nothing like a be-all, end-all solution. A redhat server is not going to offer any competition with a Hitachi mainframe, for example. A Debian box is not going magically going to start running Directory Services, or Exchange 2003 groupware, or SQL server. There is a place for Linux - but it is not everywhere, nor even in a majority of systems. The IT business world agrees with me, as they find it more cost effective to pay for MS and UNIX and Mainframe solutions in most cases, instead of getting free linux. All ISP's combined using free linux to run apache does not equal the IT business world - just a teeny weeny tiny infitesimal portion of it, compared to the computing power of a single Fortune 1000 company.
And it's <b>lunix</b>, dahm ye!
/me shakes fist!
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for Asia and the big move towards linux, it can only be a good thing for both the linux community and Asian governements; Linux gets more support behind its development, Asian governemtns don't have to worry about the next NSA_Key problem and can keep more money in their own economy.
As for Asia and the big move towards linux, it can only be a good thing for both the linux community and Asian governements; Linux gets more support behind its development, Asian governemtns don't have to worry about the next NSA_Key problem and can keep more money in their own economy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Nah, no flames, intelligent OS discussion, yes...
On the other hand, Asia is <b>the</b> land of software piracy, and I wonder how well the GNU/GPL will fair in a place where code is stolen left and right. It can barely be kept straight here (witness SCO), so how will it be in China?
And as for the flame war, better to stop it now before it gets out of hand eh?
On the other hand, Asia is <b>the</b> land of software piracy, and I wonder how well the GNU/GPL will fair in a place where code is stolen left and right. It can barely be kept straight here (witness SCO), so how will it be in China? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG We agree on something *Checks for falling brimstone outside*
The irony. Free code being stolen..
XD
And as for the flame war, better to stop it now before it gets out of hand eh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
SCO has a very good lawyer, so don't count them out any time soon.
And GPL software isn't always free for making into commercial products without compensation (I think by your quotes you agree). There are a lot of things that could go bad here, such as linux gaining a bad name from badly trained low-experience commie software developers, for example... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But lets not let this become an SCO vs Linux thread either. You say that having "badly trained low-experience commie software developers" developing for Linux could be bad. Well, I suppose that if some commercial code leaked into a GPL program and wasn't caught, yes, it could be bad.... untill it was fixed, and with so many scrutenizing eyes that shouldn't take long. And frankly, theres a good chunk of "badly trained low-experience commie software developers" developing for linux right now....
As for the lawyer, you really didn't know who it was, did you? The same one that made MS fold up in their anti-trust lawsuit and start settling with the Fed and states. He beat microsoft lawyers, so he certainly rates playing against the 'sick man of IT', IBM.
"All your Microsoft pc's are belong to linux"
I got bored of windows the other day, so i made space on my HDD and now i have a duel boot win 2k and redhat linux box.I use linux when im wordprocessing cuz it dosnt crash like my windows does.
As for the lawyer, you really didn't know who it was, did you? The same one that made MS fold up in their anti-trust lawsuit and start settling with the Fed and states. He beat microsoft lawyers, so he certainly rates playing against the 'sick man of IT', IBM. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So far, no one has been able to prove that any commercial code has made it into linux illegally. And if china decided to stop releasing code according to the GPL, well, thats there own business since there would be no legal reprecussions. As for the SCO legal team, this is not an SCO thread so i'm just gonna drop it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I really hope linux pawns MS into the ground.
"All your Microsoft pc's are belong to linux"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats really an ignorant possition to take. IBM used to be just as bad as M$ and after getting there **** kicked, they turned out much better because of it. The same thing could happen to M$. Besides, competition in the market is a good thing, when someone isn't leveraging their monopoly to control the market anyway...