Rambo 101

kltower4 · September 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">For Alert and Sharp Shooters Only.</div> When NS 2.0 came out, I "found" out that being a One-Man-Team is not viable anymore like in NS 1.04. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

However, I was wrong. Having ONE (Yes, ONE. If there is too many, prepare to lose.) very good rambo guy/team in your team can help the marines seal a victory. Let me explian this. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Being a rambo means you have to be very alert about what's going on in your surrounding. You must also sorta guess where your enemies will come by and bite you. With this, you're able to defend yourself and make yourself last long before taken down. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Now here is the part that is interesting. At Rambo mode, you must (I STRESS THIS) go to every rt spot on the map. If you see an alien rt, take it down immediately. While killing the rts, listen to your surrounding for any alien lifeforms. Then act accordingly. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

When you need health or ammo. EASY!!! Either ask from the comm or kill yourself. After that, continue ramboing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

To sum everything, going in a rambo style is all about taking down alien rts. Alien without sufficient rts mean Onos will come very late in the game. It also mean that it takes a while before the second hive is up. REMEMBER, Marine's goal is to stall the Alien as long as possible for the comm to do needed upgrades and expansions.

I know that you all have alot of questions to ask me about rambo and I sorta think of some too. So here are some of the common ones:

1. What if Aliens have MC and silence themselves?

In this case, being in rambo mode is very difficult. However, it is not impossible. Always remember not all aliens will favor Silence as an upgrade. Maybe a good way is to check here and there. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

2. What if Aliens have SC and they are cloaked?

Agian, ramboing under these conditions is very hard but still not impossible. What you can do is ask the comm to get MT for you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

3. What does it mean Rambo guy/ team in the above?

This question depends on the number of ppl that is playing on the server. Say if the game was a 5v5, then ONE single rambo will be sufficient. On the other hand, if the game was a 9v9. Then a rambo team is needed. One for killing the rt, the other will cover his back for him. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

4. What if they got Onos and Fade?

At the start of the game, the rambo guy/ team will start doing his job. Therefore, there's no time to waste. Onos requires 100 res and Fade requires 50. If you kill majority of their rts, Onos and Fades will take awhile to arrive. By that time, the comm (providing he does his job) will have his fellow marines at level 3 damage/ armour, MT and maybe JP/ HA/ HMG...etc..etc.

5. But Marines are base on teamwork, not rambo.

True but Rambo personals DO help their team if they kill the rts, that's why i stress this so much. Also, the rambo guy will be the center of attraction in aliens. They will want to eliminate them first then only move on killing Marine rts. During this time period of "Kill the Rambo's", the other Marines can go around capping rts. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

6. What if they were smart and placed OC(s) around the rt?

Ah ha, this is the most irritating part but it's fun to take down OC guarded rts. Since gorges can't build an OC on top of the RT, this is where to take advantage of it. If there is one OC guarding the RT, just hide behind the RT while killing it. However, if there are two or more OCs guarding the RT. Then it's up to if you want to clear enough ocs for you to kill the rt OR you could just ignore it and move on. IMO, placing more than 2 OCs near and rt is a waste of res. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

7. Have I tried this Rambo mode before?

Hell yes. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> I was playing a game on NS_lost one day and I was on rambo mode (just felt like it). I've manage to make the rt battle into 5v0. YES, believe me. Aliens had no rt at all. In that game, I've only encountered lerks, skulks and gorges. WEEEE... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> In other game, I've manage to get the aliens down to 1 or 2 rts. Pretty good as Aliens share their res. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

So here is my own Rambo 101. Hope you all like it. All comments and suggestions are welcomed. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

blimp · September 2003

If both marines in the ramboteam knife the rt, it goes down usually before alot of aliens arrive.

If you haven't got any special equipment, and the rt is low on health, and skulks are coming, fire your last shots in the rt to take it down. Taking down rts with your LMG from full HP isn't smart cous you waste ammo, but if you are going to die anyways, why not take the rt with you?

elchinesetourist · September 2003

there should be a shrine for all rambos

a guild, even

kltower4 · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hackinnen^ @ Sep 9 2003, 05:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If both marines in the ramboteam knife the rt, it goes down usually before alot of aliens arrive.

If you haven't got any special equipment, and the rt is low on health, and skulks are coming, fire your last shots in the rt to take it down. Taking down rts with your LMG from full HP isn't smart cous you waste ammo, but if you are going to die anyways, why not take the rt with you?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> I could never agree more.

After 10 sec, you have already respawn and ready to take down another few rts. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

kltower4 · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Sep 9 2003, 06:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> there should be a shrine for all rambos

a guild, even  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well, I hope this will be a mini-guide for everybody wanting to know about Ramboing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

However, if someone would write a better one. That will be awesome. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

blimp · September 2003

I do hope this wont encourage everyone to go ramboing, as too many doing this will do more bad than good, cous you wont be able to hold your own rts.

And if you have 1 noob on your team, get him to stay with the team and learn how to play teamplay first. When he's good at teamplay he can probably go ramboing. But teamplay should be first priority.

JeeR · September 2003

I would add that teamplaying should be the only priority in a game like NS -set aside having fun- wich is basically a teamplay-orientated game.

I think people should NEVER go outside alone and rambo-play if they are on the marine side.
Aliens, it's another story.
But Marines should always stick together, as far as the ingame situation allows it, unless explicitly "specified".

Don't wonder off all alone in corridors on your own. Don't go rambo.
That's my word.

Now, what I mean by "unless specified" is what follow: When your commander asks you to go alone to acomplish the duty he assigned you to.

Because there are times when a com will explicitly tell you to go alone. The few I can think of, are, when I com:

- A marine in an 'undercover' or raiders squad is parasited: Given the fact that this marine will signal his location to all aliens on the map, thus puting in danger the squad, I'll ask him to play the bait and go as far as possible from his squad. He doesn't go rambo, he obeys an order.

- I need someone to quickly go and tell me about the map, the state of the rez nozzles, location of aliens etc. I may ask a marine to do so, but doing so, he is not a rambo, he's obeying an order and play the role of scout for me. But this kind of situation is more likely to happen at early stages of the game, when I may not have Scanner Sweep. But this takes one of my men out of my main forces, thus weakening us a little, particularly if he's a sharpshooter.

- I need a good distraction: I'll then ask a man to go at the complete opposite of my main task force in order to occupy the aliens. If the aliens are bothered at one spot and try to squeeze him out, this will be as much aliens that won't discover my siege or my outpost at the other opposite of the map. He's not ramboing, he's doing my game.

- I need someone to stay at base: while my main force are out to get me rez, I may need a man to stay at base to defend it, build structures to upgrade our stuff etc.

Well, to sum up, the only few times a marine may be at a remote location of his teamate are when he's trying to reach them back after spawning, or when he's ordered to do so.
Otherwise he's ramboing (or lost) and that's usually not a good thing for the team, whatever the case.

I generally won't assist someone wondering on his own on the map, I would rather be helping to keep my main forces alive. Thus, no medpacks for him. Thus, he's probably going to die alot, giving rez to aliens.
Of course, he may kill himself with the kill command, but that's illogical, using a feature of the game in a way it shouldn't.

Stick together, unless your commander tells you the contrary.
As rule number two is: Follow your Commander's orders Soldier!

Rule number one of course is: Have fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

But if you can't have fun unless you're not asked to follow someone else's orders, then go alien.

And if you can't have fun unless you have a virtual big gun in your model's hands and you're not asked to follow someone else's orders, then I suggest you to try Counter Strike or The Specialists, both great mods that may make you really happy happy. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

taboofires · September 2003

1-2 people who go out and actually get something done = small squad, often referred to as ninja-marines because of the relative stealth requirements.

1-2 people who run off and get killed by OCs or a kharaa player without doing any real damage = rambo. Double points if you ignore orders at critical moments.

kltower4 · September 2003

Well, I do understand your point about Team-oriented game. However, this is taking down alien rts man. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I've seen good players taking down all the alien rts. It requires seer skill and not to be attempted by any newbies. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Also, I stress that Marines should stick together whenever possible. My issue on this "Rambo" is just for skilled players who knows what they are doing. Before I go around killing rts, I tell my comm first that I'm doing so and in the servers I play in, comm are usually quite happy when I did so. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Hence, my point is. 5 man team. 1 comm 3 stick together capping rts and the remaining last one rambo. Rambo player = skilled. Period!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Xzilen · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Sep 9 2003, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1-2 people who go out and actually get something done = small squad, often referred to as ninja-marines because of the relative stealth requirements.

1-2 people who run off and get killed by OCs or a kharaa player without doing any real damage = rambo. Double points if you ignore orders at critical moments.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Very well put.

JeeR · September 2003

I am very sorry if I seem to insist on this kltower4, but what you describ here:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Before I go around killing rts, I tell my comm first that I'm doing so and in the servers I play in, comm are usually quite happy when I did so.

Hence, my point is. 5 man team. 1 comm 3 stick together capping rts and the remaining last one rambo. Rambo player = skilled. Period!!!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

better looks like organizing the tasks of each individuals in a marine team, than anything else like going rambo.

So, if you have some kind of organisation, then this means that you cooperate with the others.

Thus, you teamplay.

If you tell your com before going outside the base and explain your intentions, then you are already one step away from what's commonly called in the NS community "a rambo".
And I assume that if you tell your com that, as a skilled player, you are going to go alone and kill alien RTs, it's in order to get his assent.
So if he prefers you not to wander off alone but assigns you to a squad instead, then you'll follow his orders and stick to your team.

As long as you do so, you can't be considered a "Rambo", who is a guy/girl that lonely and selfishly go for kills whitout telling anyone (particularly his com), and don't care for any orders given and the good of his team -and may even ask for help with medpacks/ammo/bigger gunz while he is screwing up the work of the rest of the team) and this definition isn't complete. People may argue, but you can severly cripple your team by going all alone kill things rather than helping your people.

If the comm tells you "okay guy, you're good, I'll hand you a shottie, please try to keep the aliens busy and take down aliens' RTs" then it's okay.
Even, if he doesn't tell you that all by himself, propose yourself to him in order to do this job. He may then consider your proposition in regards of his actual strategy in order to make the party (thus YOU) win the game.
And then he will take his decision and tell you what he thinks will benefit most the team ("yes, go on!" or "no I need you to take this place with your comrades").

You are a soldier, he's the commander.
You may propose things to help, but he's the one who has to take decisions.
You act, he assigns tasks and objectives.
You are the arm, he's the head.

Now that doesn't mean that you have to act like a Warcraft Grunt, who can't even go to pee by himself, you have, of course your own autonomy.

But the true challenge is to take your autonomy into a globally organised and constantly coordinated plan...

This is what the gameplay of NS is all about, and that's one of the major challenges the game proposes.

Don't forget that when you'll play people will see how you play and see if you are able to take care of such a thing. If you are able to carry this out in a teamplay-orientated fashion, they'll be more likely to recognize you,
to like to play with you and make you a reputation.
If you wander off in every game like some kind of lone wolf, then people who might remember you (when they do) will most likely talk about "this one guy who just can't stop going rambo"...

elchinesetourist · September 2003

go according to the topic, we r not discussing this and that and what is proper
who cares what your definition of rambo is

nor is /kill to kill yourself illogical, it only has unspecified use, you r trying to be precise with rambo definition for no reason yet you allow illogical to randomly cover what you r trying to convey

if you don't like ppl ignoring your orders, fine, no need to force your definition of rambo upon us.

Necrosis · September 2003

"nor is /kill to kill yourself illogical"

Its frowned upon in servers, because one of the benefits of kills are RFK. Its meant to make rambos costly. It also means teams on the receiving end of a rush get some res back to buy welders, or rebuild lost chambers, etc.

Secondly, /kill is exploited as a way to dodge Devour - acknowledged by the devs.

JeeR · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>go according to the topic, we r not discussing this and that and what is proper
who cares what your definition of rambo is

nor is /kill to kill yourself illogical, it only has unspecified use, you r trying to be precise with rambo definition for no reason yet you allow illogical to randomly cover what you r trying to convey

if you don't like ppl ignoring your orders, fine, no need to force your definition of rambo upon us. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well, I wrote a long, well detailed answer, but had problems with my browser, so I don't feel like rewriting it once more.
Instead I'll be as concise as possible:

I don't feel like I was off-topic at any moment:
kltower4 posted a topic on a way he thought people could play to NS in order to help their team (marine side), that is by trying to take down all alien RTs all by themselves. Then he encouraged people to go rambo.

I go accordingly to the topic, as I gave my thought about this issue, but unfortunately I didn't agree.
These are two different things and one of the reasons for a forum to exist is to allow people to discuss matters, even if they disagree on some points (btw that's better, because if the conversation is only one-sided, without opposition, then it's usually not very interesting).
I gave my own definition of what a rambo is, accordingly to the common perception of the community toward what a rambo is (I think), as part of my explanations on why I disagree with kltower4 (as I dont'k enjoy too much posts solely saying "you're right" or "you're wrong" without explanations).
Because he also gave his own definition of what a rambo is and both our definitions didn't match.

But maybe I wasn't clear enough so I'll re-explain my point of vue here:

- kltower4: "people going alone or in a team of two people to take down RTs in order to deny aliens to access rez."
-That's okay, this is a valid tactic.

- kltower4: "so, then, you can go rambo because if the above tactic is valid, then going rambo is good."
- I disagree, because going rambo and taking down RTs are two different things.

If you go rambo, then you just wander off on the map, and no matter what your com may say, you won't listen and do whatever you want.
A rambo may be taking down RTs, but this is not a requirement for the usual rambo. Rambos are most likely to achieve nothing for the team and be useless guns walking away from the point we really need them (and the com is usually the one who knows where this point is).

kltower4 himself and I both agree with that:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Before I go around killing rts, I tell my comm first that I'm doing so and in the servers I play in, comm are usually quite happy when I did so.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

So, if you tell your com that you are a very skilled gun and would like to use your skills to kill RTs by yourself it's okay.
If he tells you that he agrees with you, then grab your gun and try to be as effective as you said you were and take down max amount of alien RTs, that's okay, you are as a valuable asset as the rest of your team.

If he tells you that he disagrees and asks you to stick to your squad, than that's okay, act accordingly and stick with your teamates.
If you don't listen to him and still go alone in order to do whatever you think is right, no matter what your com said, Then you are a rambo. At least in my opinion.
Better go with the assent of your com than going all alone don't you think? At least you'll last longer in a task that may prove to be really helpful.

It's not that I don't like people ignoring orders, what I do as a com if I come across a player like this, is merely ignore him too. Heh! That's fair play! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
So most of the time, he'll end up being the only guy with LA/LMG and no assistance while the rest of the soldiers who are actually following orders will have HA/HMG/SG/GL and almost perpetual assistance as I would care about them more than him.
And I think most commanders feel that way too.
The fact is, I prefer people to stick together, but if a player tells me that he want to kill RTs and I see that he can handle the job correctly, then I may support him as much as his teamates. But if he just goes away without telling me anything, even if I ask him what he want to do, then it's okay like that, I'm not here to ruin his fun, even if he may be ruining the fun of his teamates.

If you want to act like a hero, doing stuff all by yourself, and not following orders, then why bother playing online with people and in a team-orientated game? Better play to great games like MoH, where you are actually asked to be a hero and do things all by yourself.

NS is a game where it's explicitly said that by engaging yourself on the marine side, you'll have to rely on others, while the other players will have to rely on *you*. This being said, if you don't want to follow orders as a marine, then you admit that you don't play the game in the way it was designed to be at first.
Or so I think.

On the "nor is /kill to kill yourself illogical" issue, Necrosis answered in a better way I could have done, and I totally agree with him. I'll just add that some people enjoy playing NS because of the almost unique atmosphere of the game. So having marine go suicidal in middle of the game like this takes away some of the said atmosphere.

Hoping that I've made myself clearer, less illogical and uncovered what I was trying to convey... lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

taboofires · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Sep 9 2003, 07:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> who cares what your definition of rambo is
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It is not possible to have an informed discussion if the participants don't mostly agree on key terms. If things aren't defined well, it's rather hard to tell whether or not you agree with anything.

J3k · September 2003

nice explantion of being a rambo........i remember in the 1.04 days when a rambo was able to take a hive by himself if he had a jp <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

elchinesetourist · September 2003

Jeer and taboo, you miss the point

the "definition" of rambo IS what the poster stated. Not yours. So again
who cares what your definition of rambo is

it doesn't matter if you don't like people who ignore your orders, that is not relevant to this discussion
if you want to complain about that, plz do so in another thread

as for killing illogical, yeah ppl "abuse" it.. so what? again, it has unspecified use, people are fine to use it however they want. Consider, NS IRL ppl might want to commit suicide as well.

rambo has already been "defined" in this thread. If you want to admonish against wanton disregard of orders, fine, but do not hijack the word rambo - remember, it only means someone who operates on his own conscience, meaning he can disregard orders whenever he feels like it, meaning he can act independently. Whether this is good or bad depends on the player and his competence. It can mean narrower things but the context is different now, the original post already acknowledges competence is required. There is no need to warn of incompetence, if there is incompetence there is incompetence.

Remember, this kind of rambo does what he thinks will help the team. If you are busy or stupid, he will act alone. This does not mean he won't build or guard if he thinks doing so is better than phasing at that moment, or knifing RTs at that moment. He will constantly assess the situation. That is my idea more personally, but it is definitely more akin to the topic than talking about the need to obey orders.

In clans it can be different. In clans - I don't feel like spelling everything out, as some ppl need to. It's for morons

There is no need to enforce your command structure, if ppl are truly dedicated to winning, as these rambos are. Do not always assume incompetent soldiers.. although I admit that this is often the case, and that is why I do not command very much - I think that is why you are so concerned with ignoring of orders - but then the soldiers I have in mind are quite incompetent at the moment, however good their intentions be, whatever their potential, not the rambos idealized originally in this thread

JeeR · September 2003

Well... I do not agree <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

"the "definition" of rambo IS what the poster stated. Not yours. So again
who cares what your definition of rambo is"

The "definition" of rambo is the one the (majority of the) community has adopted:someone who plays for his own, no matter the orders or the other players. He could be playing to CS or MoH, it would be the same: he plays solo and nobody else counts but him in his own eyes.
He may ask for a shotgun, proving that he knows who can give it to him, but that's merely the only occasion he may show that he knows you exist, and only because having a shottie will make him more powerful.
Then he'll get back to his own personal errands.

It's commonly admitted that "going rambo" is having a bad attitude in regard of how the game might be played by the average player.

Look, you admit that the animal you call "cat" refers to this domesticated mamal with fur that miaows, sleep on plain sunny areas like it was nothing, is pictured to like fishes and milk etc, as 99,9999999% of people around you do, right?
Now, if someone comes, shows you a Tiger and tells you "This Is A Cat!" chances are you will disagree, right? Why? Because you know that this is not a cat, but a Tiger! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
That is because your culture made you recognize this animal as a tiger, and the cat as a "cat".

In NS, a "rambo" refers to what I said. Not because I said it was, but because that's the common reference the community has of what a rambo is.
Unless someone with big authority in the community (let's say Flayra) comes and say "This Is A Rambo!" and starts explaining what in his opinion a rambo is, this state won't be changed by one guy alone.

Thus, as you say it too, the def' of the rambo as stated by the initial poster here isn't the true definition of what a rambo is: it doesn't refer to anything real or commonly admited, but to something "idealized" as you said.

That's why I don't feel like I highjacked anything, and that's why I do not agree with kltower4 on his definition of what a rambo is.

But I *do* agree with him on the real utility of those "solo operators" , or ninja-marines.
The idea is good.
The way it is formulated was wrong.

The point for me isn't to show that I like people who listen orders or not, the point here is to not let people be confused by the fact that going rambo may be a good thing. And it's pretty not a good thing.
And it happens that among other things, rambos usually and tipically ignore orders.

Now I won't rewrite what I said before, because I still feel that it was pertinent.

It reminds me of a topic where a new player was complaining about the game, saying it was *biiip* and *biiiip!* because he couldn't manage to win the game all by himself.
The topic was named something like "One man Can't make a difference" or something that sounded like that. I beleive it was weither in the General or Frontiersman Forum.
Anyway, his sole purpose was braging about how good he was, and I believe he truly was, at shooting aliens, but wondered why his talent didn't earned him the victory.
People explained to him that no matter how good he may have been, if he was solely killing stuff, marines couldn't win. It takes so much more to win a game as a marine, and listening to your orders is part of the challenge.

Going rambo don't win you a game. It may satisfy your ego, but that's just what it's all about.
Achieving something for your team (like killing all the alien RTs if you were asked to, or allowed to for example) may also flatter your ego, but it will as well gain you the respect of your teamates because you managed to be helpful and your dedication allowed you to achieve something bigger than just selfishly doing your stuff.
And I find this more rewarding.

If you can manage to change this, then I'll help you build your shrine to Rambos <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
But until then, I'll keep on orientating myself toward saluting the ones who dedicated their hours of gaming to teamplay <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Edit: as for killing illogical, the marines of NS in real life would... ow come on! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
This is just a game! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
There's no point making a compareason between NS and real-life matters... you may compare NS to movies at most. But even regarding movies, we won't see alot of people attempting suicide, but more likely trying to sacrifice themselves to acheive something that may make them feel that their death served a greater purpose (holding the ground to give a few precious seconds to the team, taking the kharaa to opposite of the main siege even if means certain death etc) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

ZiGGY · September 2003

a rambo is a rambo... like John Rambo from the films.. Rambo 1-whatever , it sneaks behind enemy lines and does as much damage as it can.

Epidemic · September 2003

Actualy, I agree with you.
If you comm as I you'll learn to appreciate them, though repeatingly getting killed will not get your team anywhere :/
In most game, there is always one who runs to a hive or a rt alone, and I usually manage to get a sneak phase up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

JeeR · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> a rambo is a rambo... like John Rambo from the films.. Rambo 1-whatever , it sneaks behind enemy lines and does as much damage as it can. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I prefer this version of your post <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Still, as I don't pretend to hold ultimate truth, I made a research (yeah, some people do use the search feature) and tryed to manage as much intell as possible on what a rambo is.
Here are some of the results:

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=38666&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>You might be a rambo...</a>
First this one because it tries (somehow <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>) to summarise what a rambo might be.

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15353&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>Don't confuse Rambos and scouts</a>
This one is one of the oldest. It's title is explicit: Rambos and scouts are not pretty the same.

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=16343&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>Rambo, to scold or praise...</a>
This one is pretty interesting as it tells about the cons and pros of being a rambo, somehow

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=17722&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>Letter to rambos</a>
This one is good too, but describes best the ninja style rather than truly tells what a rambo is

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=23922&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>use Rambos to your advantage...</a>

I love this one because of the definition Flatline[UTD] gave of what a rambo is:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>OK, there's a difference between 'rambos' and 'veterans.'

Rambos go off, get killed, beg for equipment, hump the armory, ignore all your orders, and get killed again. They play NS like CS. They have no friends at school. They drive SUVs.

Veterans, on the other hand, work for the good of the team. The ladies love them. They will go off, ignore your orders, and hold their own if it's for the good of the team. The rest of the time, they will do what you ask. They play NS like NS was meant to be played - as a team. They drive fast sports cars and makes lots of money.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
Still, this has some ressemblances with what kltower4 said. So maybe he wasn't describing a "rambo" but much more a "veteran"...

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=43292&hl=rambo' target='_blank'>The John Rambo Strategy... First Blood</a>
This is one of my favorite, even if it doesnt tell you what a rambo is, it will give you the Best... Strategy...Ever... For every one of you coms on the go in order to win you almost every games and make your teamates feel proud to be under your orders <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Still.. apparently, whatever the situation or the topic, a "rambo" seems to be something not very liked by the majority, or at least a "class" that some find useful to try to defend...

I'll end this post with this particular quote from Jay123:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you don't do what you are asked but expect all the equipment you want from the commander, you might be a Rambo.

If you run to seemingly random locations attempting to kill each alien on the way and not providing any intel, you might be a Rambo.

<b>If your name is Sylvester Stallone, you are Rambo. </b>
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Edit: typo

ZiGGY · September 2003

the terms are adopted as the game progresses, maybe this varies with culture but this is what *most* if not all the players I know use the term as and referrer the process to as.

Ashkajioni · September 2003

Whats with all the Jeff foxworthy ripoff jokes?

If you make a 8 paragraph post about rambos: you might be a redneck! Mwaha <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Anyways! If rambos manage to take out RT's early(atleast 2). I would say they deserve that shotgun quite frankly. 2 res towers = 30 res + however much the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> would have gained befor your entire team managed to sneak to it. Ive seen tables turn in games thanks to 1 or 2 good rambos. Yea its not good to not listen to orders.. but i tell you what, if the comm is good in any sence im sure the rambos would have listened in the first place (the good ones anyways). But i digress.

I think rambos are mostly frowned on because of the bad ones. Everyones happy to thank a rambo if they manage to take out ALOT of enemys/structures or sneak a phase up inside a hive! But if you see one that does nothing but fail, well your ready to get the whole server to flame them. Thats why i say leave the ramboing to the experts. I dont rambo, im not good enuff for it (especialy with my rusty aim) So i just dont try it. I suggest that others that arn't good enuff to lay there weapons down. Im done! *drops mic*
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

JeeR · September 2003

Well thanks for your rant to the discussion <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you make a 8 paragraph post about rambos: you might be a redneck! Mwaha <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Megalol! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
Well, okay you got me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> (even if I certainly have pretty nothing in common with a redneck, trust me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'> )

Still, as you said, there actually *are* people to achieve doing something all alone.
I've already comed a game where one of the players managed to go all alone to the opposite of the map on his own, killed an awful amount of skulks on his way and was on stand by mod near a left rez nozzle. And believe me or not, I gave him medpacks and ammo plus a RT to build as I saw that this guy could be of some help. We managed to build an entire outpost (RT, TF, 6x Turrets, Obs, Armory, mines) there. Once done, I left him go further beyond enemy lines, and even assisted him when he faced massive resistance.

I'll tell you, he managed to take out an alien team of 2 skulks, 1 Fade and one Lerk all by himself, while being a LA marine, with only a LMG (well, upgraded both armour and weap to level2 at least if I remember well), under my continual assistance. He died sometime after because I had to take care of my main squad too.

And when he spawned back I mad him return to the base (what he did) and gave him a shotgun in order to facilitate his job.

So yes a lonely guy can be very valuable. But only because I, as the com, thought so, gave him assistance, and made him build an outpost.
My idea here was clear: have him distract the Kharaa the time for me to prepare a full frontal assault on their hive and to save for at leat two waves of HAs (I count by "waves":that is the number of times i can fully equip my entire team with HAs if they all die in an assault, which happen failry never but this way I can have HAs ready for them as soon as they spawn, so the Kharaa may not think that my next Heavy train will come that quick).

But I never considerated him like a Rambo starting from this point.

Rambo 101

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