Time Limits And Sudden Death
GoldenShadow
Join Date: 2002-04-21 Member: 483Members
Join Date: 2002-04-21 Member: 483Members
<div class="IPBDescription">for those really long games.</div> As we all know marines are notorious for dragging out games that should have been over for hours and hours when they have no hope of gaining back any ground. Although these rare comebacks do happen, its the exception to the rule. playing a 2 hour stalemate where aliens control 9 nodes and marines have 1 and they slowly tech up to lvl3 upgrades and get everyone equipped for a bumrush to take a 2nd hive.(these types of comebacks the marines have relocated to a difficult hive, like sewer on mineshaft or waste on tanith. onos can't get in to do their damage since they have to expose themselves a LONG time, plus add CC walls and you can completely block onos from using the ladders.
This game desperately needs a time limit to stop these boring drawn out stalemates, which aren't fun at all.
Give the server admins full control on the time limit, he can even use unlimited time if he chooses. maybe the default time should be 15 or 30 minutes, fully customizable by the admin to suit the games he plays. he can set it to an hour or 5 minutes. The team that controls the most Resource nozzles by having active resource towers on them wins when time expires.
Sudden Death The game keeps going if both teams have an equal number of Resource nodes. when one of them is destroy or killed, say 5v5 kill a rine node to make 4v5, aliens win automaticaly. This will stop boring games since the marines end up losing since they only have one node when time expires.
This game desperately needs a time limit to stop these boring drawn out stalemates, which aren't fun at all.
Give the server admins full control on the time limit, he can even use unlimited time if he chooses. maybe the default time should be 15 or 30 minutes, fully customizable by the admin to suit the games he plays. he can set it to an hour or 5 minutes. The team that controls the most Resource nozzles by having active resource towers on them wins when time expires.
Sudden Death The game keeps going if both teams have an equal number of Resource nodes. when one of them is destroy or killed, say 5v5 kill a rine node to make 4v5, aliens win automaticaly. This will stop boring games since the marines end up losing since they only have one node when time expires.
Comments
How about fixing the balance so that stalemates can't happen as easily...?
For instance, fixing all of the damn hive locations which are more marine friendly than alien friendly, for starters. Specifically, more onos friendly. If you can keep them out then your base is saved.
Or you could even do the opposite. Res nodes STOP giving resources altogether. Either one would change the stalemate (which is the goal).
Commandar we need granate launchars to spamxx0r teh ali33ns!!!!1!1!!one
I r cannat! we r gots noh res!!
OMG!11!
if a marine team had 2923092 res then they would have ha hmg and full ups and massive turret spam, and they would WIN. if aliens ahve 120932372636666 million res they are still the same old measly-quick-dieing onos. add something bigger than onos for 250 res and they would win the game that is rightfully theirs.
thats not likely on the HL engine.
my serious solution is to play tournament mode. scoring is based on res that has come in, via RFK or holding RT's for longer, then t a half hour the game ends with the win going to who has more accumulated. this is standard practice for clan matches because after a half an hour, if the aliens had 9 RT's all game they damn well DID WIN. if marines had six rt's all game long they deserve the win, and under tournament mode they would get the win.
pettition your server admin to turn on tourney mode more often. the only drawback is how pubbers might react to friendly fire. but keep an admin present and teamkilling wont be a real problem.
indeed
j/k
Bilebomb? Gorges die too easily and when marines are located on high ground, bilebomb has a limited range thanks to gravity. (waste handling on tanith and sewer on mineshaft)
umbra? it works when properly used, but primal scream is better.
leap? please skulks die to minimal amounts of lvl3 turrets let alone a farm. and skulks are useless against a fortified marine position defended by HA HMG without xenocide.
fade? good chance to getting in the base alive by using blink, but he won't last very long when he gets there. even with umbra support. fades are barely useful in this situation without acid rocket.
onos: best chance aliens have yet still not enough to break through. Marines have the high ground, onos are slow and huge so they get stuck on corners and in small hallways. they are sitting ducks on ladders. stomp has no effect when the marines are above him. devour is the most useful ability here to take out the heavy armors they are trying to equip everyone with. since the onos can't do major damage to the base, the marine's single node is enough to stay sustained with new turrets. since everyone is close together weapons get recycled when anyone dies. so you are really only doing damage to the marines when you devour marines and go poop out their weapons away from their base. this is where the stalemate occurs, marines trying desperately to break out and the onos keeping them checked, but not able to deliver the finishing blow. still I've seen marines use lame tactics like a wall of Command chairs on the ladders so the onos has to bust through them first, meanwhile marines on the edge fire away at him, often killing it if it doesn't retreat fast enough, a welder keeps the damage negligle costing no res to sustain the wall.
If you want a way to prevent this situation, give fades back acid rocket at 2 hives. 5 fades spamming acid at a marine base will result in a lot of marine casualties and lots of damage to the structures that welders can't repair fast enough because the marines welding die. Basicaly marines are exploiting alien's lack of a good ranged weapon to artificialy extend the game. spores are nice, but useless against heavy armor, spikes are pitifuly weak against lvl3 armor.
im done.
turrets don't upgrade
back ontopic... you posted how -individual- units would be affected. what you should do is attack with a group of -mixed- forces, ie. 2 skulks, 2 fades, 2 lerks, 2 gorges and 2 onos (on a 10v10).
each class has abilities that would benefit the group (onos-cannon fodder, lerks-cover with umbra, gorges-heal/bilebomb, skulks-chump buildings while marines focus on umbraed onos, fades-kill marines while they focus on umbraed onos)
yea they do, when u upgrade weapons then turrets get stronger too
you can also look at my test:
unupgraded turret: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/ns_eclipse0001.jpg' target='_blank'>ns_eclipse0001.jpg</a>
upgraded turret: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/ns_eclipse0002.jpg' target='_blank'>ns_eclipse0002.jpg</a>
That would remove a lot of the strategy from the marine team, meaning that they would have to rely on brute force to win instead of cunning.
Any way to beat marines all it takes is some team work and a lerk that is willing to support the team. So many games I have played marines and been forced into a defended base. All the lerks do is fire in spores, sure it kill vanilla marines and gets the lerk res but dose nothing to the actual integrity of the base. as soon as one just start firing umbra (preferably over a regenerating or capriced onose) our base goes down really quickly, every time. (I also play the latter lerk in these situations).
Time limits or a supper Rambo 250 res alien are not necessary only team work.
On another note if the marines are stuck in one or two fortified position just hit the buildings they will not have the res to replace them for long.
on those maps, if marines stay, they are very likely to fail.
about commchairs... i was thinking of making them similar to scanner sweeps; by this i mean the commander should be able to place, say, one CC every minute or so, starting with a free one (for a reloc)
you can also look at my test:
unupgraded turret: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/ns_eclipse0001.jpg' target='_blank'>ns_eclipse0001.jpg</a>
upgraded turret: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/ns_eclipse0002.jpg' target='_blank'>ns_eclipse0002.jpg</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be a valid test if the screenshots weren't exactly the same.
different position, different angle, different upgrade (notice the LEVEL 3 GUN IN THE CORNER?)
j/k <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nublards, that's one i'll have to add to my H4><0r dictionary <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Turrets DO NOT upgrade. They did in 1.04, they don't in 2.0.
Kthxbye
Perhaps some form of damage/health modifier based on the number of RT's you have after a certain number of minutes...
Therefore after <x> minutes, you work out the percentage of the RT's you have, then double it. This done, damage and/or durability(health and armour) of everything is set to this percentage.
For example:
Say you have 10 RT's built on the map, aliens have 6, marines have four. You pass the timelimit so the game works out the percentages... marines have 40% of the rt's, so you double that to make 80%, you modify the attributes to be 80% of the normal max.
Aliens however have 60% of the RT's, so you double that and get 120%, the attributes are modified to 120% of the normal max.
The modification could be done over time... with the attributes slowly draining off, instead of just dissapearing the instant the time limit is passed or an RT is destroyed.
Obviously values could be altered to suit how much of an impact the developers wish the RT percentage to make.
Through this you could help to speed long endgames with a huge difference in RT's up immensely, whilst leaving games with the number of RT's balanced equal.
A simple example of a formula is stated below.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
100% divided by the 'total number of RT's built' times the 'number of rt's the team has' times two = modifier percentage.
<span style='color:red'>((100/BuiltRT)*TeamRT)*2)=ModPercent</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finally; I believe this topic probably belongs in Suggestions.
different position, different angle, different upgrade (notice the LEVEL 3 GUN IN THE CORNER?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep you're right. My mistake. They looked awfuly similar. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<li>marines have tons of projectile weapons (lmg, gl, hmg, shotty) to achieve a very effective area denial
<li>purchased weapons can be picked up when rines die, making kills nearly meaningless (HA/JP can't be picked up, but these don't really help area denial as much)
</ul>
When marines control 95% of the map and aliens are backed into a single hive:<ul><li>the projectile weapons of lerk spikes and skulk parasite, and lerk spores are minimally effective at creating area denial
<li>when lerk/fade/onos die, another alien can't pick up the upgrade
</ul>