Small Squad Tactical Positioning

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  • Asal_The_UnforgivingAsal_The_Unforgiving Members Join Date: 2003-03-26 Member: 14903Posts: 623
    When moving about like this, squads tend not to stay in blocks, and they definately jiggle about on the move. when you start firing, the whole thing ALWAYS breaks down as the point guys try to stay away from those nasty teeth. This is a nasty feature for squad combat - Self Preservation.

    When I move about in the squad, I tend to shove myself to Squad Leader, or your afore-mentioned Omega. In this position I can freely support either side, and get my precious GL (I love that thing...recently I've shot skulks on the move, so I think I'm getting pretty good) and put it to good use.

    The problem with a GL....if you're the lone man, and you're carrying a welder, should you dump it? You CANNOT fight a skulk with a welder OR a GL, but it costs too much to lose. One thing you've forgotten in this whole thing is squad compression, what happens if you don't have that many men, or you lose men? Is a two-man formation a viable consideration?

    Alright, here's how I answer my own questions, take it or leave it, I'm easy:

    Lose the GL? First off, you have to decide whether it's possible to wait for reinforcements and keep going or not, which means you have to quickly assess the damage you did to the enemy team. If they took heavy losses, and you have time, WAIT for the rest of your squad, whild you drop your gun and pick up every other one, making sure none of them disappear. KEEP DOING THIS, you have no idea how many times I've come back to the group to the words "Your gun just disappeared, and I couldn't do anything because I've already got a gun" DROP THE STUPID THING, those guns are expensive, especcially for a large squad. If you got beaten by a small number of aliens, by all means, get your butt out of the hot zone, unless your team was carrying mines, and you can make an Alamo while awaiting reinforcements. In either case, do NOT move toward an enemy position, and do NOT move anywhere but back to base. Tell your team where you are going, and keep them updated, you won't survive at all without support, no matter how many guns you jury-rig onto that HA. If you can hold, be sure you keep everything up, and don't leave. If you can camp a point for the 20 seconds it takes the suicide runners (guys like me who spawn 3 feet from the portal and moving when there are problems on the map) to get to your position. Those guys are your best friends. If you KNOW there are none on your team, get your butt out of there, those are the guys that will save your butt. If you don't have any, you're a dead man. If you do, then you've got a squad set up, just ask the comm for ammo and move out again. If you have to go back home, and you have the GL....if there's an HMG on the floor, pick that up, they both cost the same, and an HMG is better for a lone man. If you're near base, TAKE THAT GL BACK HOME, because I don't know a single comm who will hand out two GL's within a 5 minute period. If you lose that, it's gone.

    *pants*

    What happens with less men than 5? I have not seen a five man squad very often, although I got a squad entirely full of suicide runners a short time ago (boy was that a fun game, never saw them stand still for more than fifteen seconds, and each one of us died 3 times as many as times as the rest of the team combined, but we really messed up those aliens) In any case, back to the point. With less than five men, I would have the squad set up thus (A = Alpha, O = Omega, D = Delta):

    A
    O
    D D

    Yes, that's only one guy in front. Why? Because you're moving that way, and the Omega Man can help make sure the corners are clean when you move around them. As for why there are two guys in back, when most aliens SHOULD come from the front....you can't run backwards, so you have to do quick spins, and with only one guy, there is no way you can keep up. Next slide please:

    A
    D D

    Sorry GL, you're not gonna last too long in this, but if you really need it, then it is possible to line up, but dangerous. Only if you trust the guys could you run one with a GL Omega in a 3-man team. Next Slide:

    O
    O

    Yep, no Alpha, no Delta. You want a two man team? You're out of luck, it's basically gonna turn out to be two men praying that nobody kills them too fast, unless they know how each other think. You gotta do everything when the other guy is doing everything. Alpha, Delta, Omega, You're all together. I'd call this a Gamma team, but I don't want to have to declare any more variables, so Omega works. With this, it only works in a few circumstances, but if used right, it actually comes in handy. In small games, it is far more effective, but give the poor saps JPs or they're mincemeat. In a large game, it can STILL be handy. All you need is uncapped res nodes. Since that's the point of the game, send 'em off. Everyone knows how to cover a guy building, right? Good, 'cause I have other things to do than write up a manual for standing between teeth and the flesh of your buddy. On the other hand, defending is different. You can actually play games with the skulky, and come off well. Against a single skulk, THE best res node defence tactic is....ring around the res node.

    Yay, I'm finally done. Now toast it good and hot with flaming messages, and then decide it's foolish and delete it. thnx!
    Asal 'The Unforgiving' Skulltaker
  • Lord_Of_The_PingsLord_Of_The_Pings Members Join Date: 2003-02-27 Member: 14079Posts: 124
    All in all a very good guide to tactilcal movement for NS, I just hope that more people will read it, as it shows players how to move properly.
    I alreydy try to move in a similar fromation, but unfortunately public servers are not renowned for their teamwork(or at least the ones I play on), as you normally have a few good players and a LOT of people who dont care and dont communicate.
    As to groups of players doing the conga DONT DO IT it only gets 4 of 8 players killed and the rest almost out of ammo and half dead.

    All in all a good guide.

    My recommendation: STICKY
    smile.gif
    Check out my band's webpage here ;)
    Sorry it's in german I know :(
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Posts: 3,567 mod
    QUOTE (Lord_Of_The_Pings @ Oct 19 2003, 12:23 AM)
    My recommendation: STICKY
    smile.gif

    and what if it already was? wink.gif
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • Lord_Of_The_PingsLord_Of_The_Pings Members Join Date: 2003-02-27 Member: 14079Posts: 124
    hmm maybe it was done by a magical forum pixie last night smile.gif
    Check out my band's webpage here ;)
    Sorry it's in german I know :(
  • Phoenix_SixPhoenix_Six Members Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22442Posts: 155
    I noticed another thread referring to an NS movie. I think marines moving like this can make some really professional looking and kickass scenes wow.gif Choreographers take note!
    See, shes a bird and I am a bee
    and if I want to be with that bird
    I have to sting her
    and keep on stinging her
    until she screams
    - Re: The Birds and the Bees - Unknown
  • CheeseCheese Lork on the Clorf Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24396Posts: 931
    I ll create a new topic with the name TMS (Two Men Squad) Version 1.00 soon. There I´ll try to give some tactics for the survival of two marines. one with a shotty and a pistol, one with a LMG and a welder. Unfortunately I have to translate it first so it could take some time.
    I made this TMS because I think that it is unrealistic to have 5 marines running around all the time. its often only two or three marines. so check out the topic if you are interested. I ll post again as soon as it is online... marine.gif
  • CheeseCheese Lork on the Clorf Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24396Posts: 931
    edited December 2003
    These Movement Tactics are too slow for NS-->with other words Natural Selection is a lot to fast...Could you please get some friends around you and try this movement tactics and afterwards react to the problems smile.gif
    would be very nice.

    oh by the way TMS(english) is online
    but its a very short one
  • fury_l6lfury_l6l Banned Join Date: 2003-12-27 Member: 24795Posts: 182
    QUOTE (Cheese @ Dec 16 2003, 01:48 PM)
    These Movement Tactics are too slow for NS-->with other words Natural Selection is a lot to fast...Could you please get some friends around you and try this movement tactics and afterwards react to the problems smile.gif
    would be very nice.

    oh by the way TMS(english) is online
    but its a very short one

    exactly, the most advanced tactics ive seen is "ohoh, bob went in the vent and he died..... uh.... you go next, and ill mine it shut after you"
    user posted image
  • The_BendsThe_Bends Members Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17183Posts: 37
    Nice Idea and great pics but I really don't think these tactics are vaiable. The basic rines up front rines sweeping behind idea is a sound one and one most decent marine will follow. However, the movement of the marines in your system is too slow for anything other than the final walk to the last hive, in which case you've won anyway (given the equiptment you specified) If you tried this during the res capping, hive taking period you've halved you speed and given the aliens 1/2 more rts or crucial areas and hense lost the game. For all its tactical complexities NS is in many ways very arcadey and as such, speed and accuracy are the watchwords
  • StarludeStarlude Members Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20576Posts: 101
    but because it's generally too slwo doesn't mean it's good. If your in a team, spread out, so one skulk can't just bite one and go right to the next rine, he has to move around. You can cover the back, and look around in the back position, and have the center hold fast. One problem I find is when marines start reloading, they tend to fall to the back of the formation, or at least to the middle, while they try to get away from any incoming skulks. While a very good guide, not very useful for NS, although people keeping ideas like this in mind, just some simple common sense to spread out, watch the front and back, is nice.
  • Anakyn_SkywalkerAnakyn_Skywalker Members Join Date: 2004-06-12 Member: 29273Posts: 21
    i really found your tacticall strategy very interesting and smart. The only problem is that i don´t have a group of friends to try them out, but i believe it to be a good way to beat the aliens. I noticed it was a hard work and the ilustruations and great. Maybe, in some dys i will write my own strategy to beat aliens in no time!!

    Thanks and see you!

    Anakyn.
  • degamer106degamer106 Banned Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Posts: 162
    Ahahahha.....
    squad positioning isn't something that i've seen in ANY games..competetive or public. if the marines can aim the commander should'nt have to worry. and uh always medspam.
    BOO NO COMPUTER AND NO INTERNET
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  • SoD_General_SphinxSoD_General_Sphinx Members Join Date: 2003-08-18 Member: 19913Posts: 12
    One thing that has always helped me out in pub and other is assuming my team is stupid, I always assume that everyone around is going to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and not realize they did it. By doing that I have been able to play much better at pub's by being always on guard for those sneaky little skulks.
  • FilosofiFilosofi Members Join Date: 2004-09-29 Member: 31998Posts: 4
    edited October 2004
    I admire the thought and effort put in this guide, but I doubt anyone will actually use it.

    Even if you could 'train' people to these tactics, there is many factors that make these inpossible. This guide for instance, doesn't think about the aliens located in ceilings. When you play an online game lag comes must be considered, it can make a pr0 player lose to a newbie player anytime.

    Even in clan matches, I have witnessed that premade tactics often end up being more of a nuicance.

    (sry my typos, im too lazy...)
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  • AvsAvs Members Join Date: 2004-05-20 Member: 28798Posts: 187
    Good guide. But it follows mostly common sense. IN ORDER TO USE THIS: Your going to need one hell of a squad leader to make quick decisions in placing his unit in the correct formations (not necessarily the ones you've made) depending on map, room, strength, etc. The saddest thing imo is that the only place I have ever seen this in action was in the NS tourney BFTG.
    Avs
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    CAL 1999 - 2004
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  • WarZer0WarZer0 Members Join Date: 2003-06-15 Member: 17386Posts: 26
    edited October 2004
    Good in theory. But as been said again and again in this, the best laid plans will often go to hell within the first minute of contact. And they won't even get off the ground on a pub or semi private server.

    What works best IMHO is tactics that work well with anyone, the average joe that's playing only for fun. No 4 people per squad into preset squads, that always will break down since it's rare that everyone in the squad dies at once to respawn. And marines idling about at base is wasting the most precious resource either team can have: time.

    I agree with the idea of a Sergeant, or Field Commander as I like to call it: the guy out running around with the marines. The field commander can have just as clear an overhead view as your normal comm thanks to the minimap view. Probably clearer since the Field comm doesn't have to worry about building placement, and in fact works somewhat better since this way the responsibility is divided. The field commander worries about getting people to the right place at the right time, ordering around units. If need be he can grab two or three people that just respawned and head out, while the keeping an eye on the overhead minimap allows him to keep an eye on the rest of the marines and pick out opportunities that present thsemselves from rambos being in the right place at the right time.

    The traditional commander worries about support. More like a logistics and intelligence officer combined together, his main job is getting upgrades, medpacks, and ammo to his men out on the field while trying to gather intelligence of enemy movement using the observatory (even better with motion tracking). He's also must keep on his toes waiting for when a marine calls out for say a phase gate just outside a hive and he has to worry about dropping turrets and buildings in such a way that doesn't leave everything vunerable to a single gorge with bile bomb. In a way the commander has it easy if his field commander is competent: all the comm has to do is react to the FC's requests.

    Granted though, this strategy will not hold against a well organized enemy who knows thier ****. This strategy is based almost entirely on fast reaction, which is probably one of the key winning strategies in public servers. Against an organized enemy however, even a simple feint while the real attack comes from behind stragety will prevail against you.
  • SaturnNightsSaturnNights Members Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34491Posts: 2
    edited January 2005
    props to the tactic diagrams smile-fix.gif

    playing a lot of team stragity games these tactics will come in handy

    heres one i thought up just a second ago biggrin-fix.gif


    1 2


    3


    4


    1= LMGer
    2= LMGer
    3= Shotgunner
    4= GL,HMG,Shotgunner (depending on situation)

    i would use this for moving through large hallways or over large open areas like caves or cargo rooms

    (ok for some reason the 2 isnot in the right spot picture about 2-3 tabs away)
    Liv3 In Your W()rL[)
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  • ADagADag Members Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34723Posts: 7
    I have a little big of information for these tactics that might prove useful for squads...
    Most people in pubs can't aim....
    Add to the fact you are in a tight grouping....
    Add to the fact people like to strafe when in front...
    Marines can't be watching angles, building rts, and watching vents unless well coordinated...
    In pubs you might have at least some decent players that take point...
    I prefer to take point and tell those following me to stay near the walls. Those people who take point have the hardest jobs. They can spot the aliens first and alert their team by flashlight or voice/radio. When I know at least one alien is around the corner, I will move out first and make the alien follow my lead...If i can't kill him with my pistol i hope my team can aim or there won't be much of me left.... Like a few people have said, most in-game strategies are adaptation. I prefer playing with experienced players who listen to the comm first and the squad leaders second. The commander can hear alot more than the squad leader can....He should use that to their advantage...
    Of course you don't stick your head down a vent that is head level....
    You stay away from easiest ambush areas. Sometimes it takes time to determine where aliens will be on which map. New maps are like that though....Every new map has its vantage points (unless you play a siege map). GLs are only good if the player that uses them only shoots large groups of aliens or structures...Those he can't miss...aka onos... Some players are just extremely good with a gl....I personally prefer shotty over hmg....But thats just me....


    These are just a few of the reasons why squad tactics/movement don't really help NS pubbing. I would prefer those people that leave base to leave base in a group but not so tightly packed a skulk can hide behind a marine to block the shots of 3 marines.
  • CheeseCheese Lork on the Clorf Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24396Posts: 931
    isnt this a bit..out of date? but still webbed?
  • SLizerSLizer Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-11-07 Member: 22363Posts: 1,301
    Ýou can have really very good time reading all the webbed in every place..... Bit like searching Is before zunni....
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  • BlueNovemberBlueNovember hax Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14137Posts: 1,669 Advanced user
    QUOTE (Cheese @ May 23 2005, 09:17 AM)
    isnt this a bit..out of date? but still webbed?

    Could be worse. The Kharaa forum has stickies talking about Bablers.
    image

    WTS my two spare NS2 black-armour steam keys
  • GigabaneGigabane Members Join Date: 2005-04-02 Member: 47263Posts: 82
    Im sure I'd be fixed sooner, but we dont exactly have a specific moderator for the strat section.
    Not that I know of atleast.
    If we do, he's not paying enough attention to us frontiersmen biggrin-fix.gif
  • CheeseCheese Lork on the Clorf Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24396Posts: 931
    hmm we need soemthing like Zunni for the Tactic Sections!
  • knifemasterknifemaster Members Join Date: 2008-01-09 Member: 63370Posts: 2
    tsa.gif the formations look very good although u will rarely get a team that will follow formations unlless its friends. ill try some of the corner strats out



    nice work biggrin-fix.gif
    KNIFED xD
  • xxSharpfirexxxxSharpfirexx Members Join Date: 2008-04-14 Member: 64077Posts: 7
    This would be useful, but usually the servers I play with have bots, also if the server I'm playing on doesnt have bots, it usually has rambo/noob marines.
    I have cookies you aliens!
  • xxSharpfirexxxxSharpfirexx Members Join Date: 2008-04-14 Member: 64077Posts: 7
    edited April 2008
    Sorry, accidently pressed twice
    I have cookies you aliens!
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Posts: 3,175
    QUOTE(xxSharpfirexx @ Apr 15 2008, 01:14 PM) »
    This would be useful, but usually the servers I play with have bots, also if the server I'm playing on doesnt have bots, it usually has rambo/noob marines.

    A sign of the times?

    sad-fix.gif

    This used to be incredibly relevant a few years ago...
    Coined the qualitative attribute entropy in reference to game maps.
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  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,022 Fully active user
    QUOTE(the_x5 @ Apr 17 2008, 12:14 AM) »
    A sign of the times?

    sad-fix.gif

    This used to be incredibly relevant a few years ago...

    It's funny. When I started playing the TF2 beta I basically switched from NS to TF2. For the first couple of games I was amazed at how no one covers each other, or has a good idea how to even when they try. Except for the few scrims I've played I hardly see anyone that knows how to cover.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • CEldinCEldin Members Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Posts: 650
    I remember reading this a while ago and thinking it was awesome - which it still is. The problem you face, however, is execution. It is literally impossible to stick to these formations in a game of NS because of how fast everything moves. The only time I think these formations would be useful is in the beginning of the game because there are no higher life forms/upgrades available to skulks. At the same time, however, the beginning of the game is also the most important time to be quick and efficient - sacrificing quickness for formation doesn't seem like a good idea.

    Now let me explain why I think formations would be useless in a Heavy Armor situation: by the time you have HA you will be dealing with celerity, fades, lerks, or leap. These skills close the gap between the alien and marine so fast that it makes the formation quite useless. Also - the most effective way of killing an alien is frequently to strait up hear him and turn in that direction - not 'guess' where he is.

    All the same, still cool ideas.
    stankattack, bunnay + azrael
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