Marine Wins
Kid-A
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
<div class="IPBDescription">due to no onos?</div> I've been playing quite a few games where marines are winning. These are on Roobs NTFM server and this is still 2.0.
Bizarrely by analysing these wins I can see what I orginally saw and still see as an unbalancing factor - Early Onos. The problem is Roob's server doesn't have any lamers that 'just save for onos' so while a certain amount of good skulking and lerking keeps marines controlled for a while (the general rule is keep marines on less than 4 RT's on this server and this is usually done), however, once they get upgrades and Adv arm only Onos will do. This is fine however from these games it seems to take marines about 10mins to build up to be able to expand and hold effectively, by which time on most other servers there would be 1-2 onos already that can complete and utterly halt the expansion, on Roob's the onos (in these particular games) aren't there and don't appear until ~15mins.
My point is aliens need early onos to win, yet in games where they get them a win is almost guaranteed. Surely this means onos are overpowered?
p.s I don't want to detract from the marine sides which win who are often very organized.
Bizarrely by analysing these wins I can see what I orginally saw and still see as an unbalancing factor - Early Onos. The problem is Roob's server doesn't have any lamers that 'just save for onos' so while a certain amount of good skulking and lerking keeps marines controlled for a while (the general rule is keep marines on less than 4 RT's on this server and this is usually done), however, once they get upgrades and Adv arm only Onos will do. This is fine however from these games it seems to take marines about 10mins to build up to be able to expand and hold effectively, by which time on most other servers there would be 1-2 onos already that can complete and utterly halt the expansion, on Roob's the onos (in these particular games) aren't there and don't appear until ~15mins.
My point is aliens need early onos to win, yet in games where they get them a win is almost guaranteed. Surely this means onos are overpowered?
p.s I don't want to detract from the marine sides which win who are often very organized.
Comments
making lerk harassments semi useless because u get them like ~10min and by then the marine guns are strong and can kill lerks easily....
that or the aliens doesnt have any fades so when the weak marines expands, nobody is holding them back (minus the few skulk rushes)
sooooooooo
what im saying is
everybody spends their resources so theres no early game suppressive "fire" from the aliens so marines expand and expand with no aliens taking down electrified node = marine tech frenzy = ownage
Just as one alien saves for a hive, maybe one (but only one) should save for onos as well?
Just as one alien saves for a hive, maybe one (but only one) should save for onos as well? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of your commanding games are games of res-denial and crippling. That explains the no onos part. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But it's true -- the Kharaa actually need onos to win, but that onos also need that second hive. (Or dcs at the first hive) to be effective. I've seen the 2 hive lockdown been used successfully in many games, and without those dcs, people don't dare to go onos.
Edit: Also note, that from my experience, Onos is rarely used in matches. Fade's are generally the game enders.
Its not lame to save for onos from start, its just stupid when the half team or nobody does that.
In endgame against fully upgraded marines you need each alien class in same quantity.
Fade is better for attacking, onos is better for expanding, lerk is better for defending.
Movement first best for early Fades, worst for early Onos.
Sensory first is best for early Onos, worst for early Lerks.
Defense first is best for early Lerks, worst for early Fades.
When you have NO DC, more fades are usefull, they dont need DC due their speed and metabolize.
When you have NO SC, you need more Lerks, they are perfect scouts and profit most from DC and Adren.
When you have NO MC, you need more Onos, it pfofits the least from extra speed and most from defense and sensory.
When you see aliens loosing, remember thoose lines and you most times find the reason, apart from missing teamwork and ignorant players.
Its not lame to save for onos from start, its just stupid when the half team or nobody does that.
In endgame against fully upgraded marines you need each alien class in same quantity.
Fade is better for attacking, onos is better for expanding, lerk is better for defending.
Movement first best for early Fades, worst for early Onos.
Sensory first is best for early Onos, worst for early Lerks.
Defense first is best for early Lerks, worst for early Fades.
When you have NO DC, more fades are usefull, they dont need DC due their speed and metabolize.
When you have NO SC, you need more Lerks, they are perfect scouts and profit most from DC and Adren.
When you have NO MC, you need more Onos, it pfofits the least from extra speed and most from defense and sensory.
When you see aliens loosing, remember thoose lines and you most times find the reason, apart from missing teamwork and ignorant players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the contrary:
Jeez.
It's definately lame to save for onos from the start if your team is losing, its even more lame when the half team does it.
In endgame against fully upgraded marines, judge which alien class you feel would be the most effective in that situation, and use it.
Fade is better for containing, onos is the best of everything, lerk is better for supporting.
Defense first best for early Fades, Best for early Onos.
Defense first is best for early Onos, worst for nothing.
Defense first is good for early Lerks, best for early Fades.
When you have DC, more fades are usefull, they need DC due awesome ability to contain marines.
When you have SC, you lose.
When you have NO MC, you don't have a second hive.
When you see aliens loosing, remember thoose lines and you most times find the reason, apart from missing teamwork and <b>ignorant players</b>
As for upgrades, I find that the most important upgrades for an onos are movements, followed defence and finally sensory. Celerity helps a lot when charging the group of marines down the corridor because you spend a lot less time in their crosshairs, and can escape more effectively. Defence then adds regen, meaning that you can sustain long attacks on the rines without having to rely on hives / gorges for healing. Finally, SoF merely provides you with information on enemy placement.
The thing about having DCs first, is that onos are painstakingly slow in moving, so using regen is out of the question because you cannot effectively escape a firefight and heal up. The only viable upgrade becomes redemption (lame imo), and early fades are disadvantaged.
As for upgrades, I find that the most important upgrades for an onos are movements, followed defence and finally sensory. Celerity helps a lot when charging the group of marines down the corridor because you spend a lot less time in their crosshairs, and can escape more effectively. Defence then adds regen, meaning that you can sustain long attacks on the rines without having to rely on hives / gorges for healing. Finally, SoF merely provides you with information on enemy placement.
The thing about having DCs first, is that onos are painstakingly slow in moving, so using regen is out of the question because you cannot effectively escape a firefight and heal up. The only viable upgrade becomes redemption (lame imo), and early fades are disadvantaged. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree completely; without DC the onos is a waste of res.
And fades are the strongest possible upgrade early game : ) - Infact, the entire game besides onos fades own
Of course, I've never seen an instance where we needed an onos over just a fade and gorge combo.
As for upgrades, I find that the most important upgrades for an onos are movements, followed defence and finally sensory. Celerity helps a lot when charging the group of marines down the corridor because you spend a lot less time in their crosshairs, and can escape more effectively. Defence then adds regen, meaning that you can sustain long attacks on the rines without having to rely on hives / gorges for healing. Finally, SoF merely provides you with information on enemy placement.
The thing about having DCs first, is that onos are painstakingly slow in moving, so using regen is out of the question because you cannot effectively escape a firefight and heal up. The only viable upgrade becomes redemption (lame imo), and early fades are disadvantaged. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree completely; without DC the onos is a waste of res.
And fades are the strongest possible upgrade early game : ) - Infact, the entire game besides onos fades own <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point I'm trying to make is that using DC first pretty much forces you to use redemption. With celerity first you are more flexible in both your later upgrades, and your methods of attack.
You can blink around permanently without having adrenaline and with regeneration you can blink around in circles in the air while marines try and shoot you all the while healing.
Regen is good for sporing from a vent and since spores don't stack adren isn't all that needed to keep energy up.