Chambers: Adv/disadv

DiscoZombie · September 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">objective discussion only please</div> ppl spend a lot of time talking about what chambers to build first, and whom is a nub for not agreeing. Rather than saying why so-and-so shouldn't be the first/second/third chamber, why don't we simply chronicle the advantages and disadvantages of making each chamber at each hive stage?

Sensory first -- some love it, some hate it. A smart team of gorges willing to cooperate can make it so that you're cloaked at all the strategic points on the map. scent of fear can make it so that the marines never get the drop on you. In these respects, sensories may be the best chambers for the very beginning of a map, but quickly lose their value. As the marines get upgrades and start moving around in groups, your skulks knowing where they are won't help you as much, and it won't help your lerks, fades, and onos kill any more efficiently. Still, always helpful to be mostly invis and to know where your enemies are going. Placing def after sensory can make it easier to ambush people and stay alive/heal up after; placing move after sens allows things like the invisible AND silent aliums...

Movement first -- a lot of people like movement first, but someone else will have to defend it, as I personally prefer movement second in most situations. Silence helps skulks kill rambos and sometimes groups of two. Celerity helps everyone dodge, escape, and get around better. Adren helps lerks a whole lot at the beginning and fades and onos a little later. Movements rule in combination with defense, which will hopefully be chosen second. Not to mention the value of inter-hive travel once you get that second hive up...

Defense -- Skulks last longer with cara, and all the higher aliens are happy to be able to regen or redeem and not lose those 10, 30, 50, or 100 res because they can't heal or escape. In that way, you can't really go wrong with def, but def in combination with movement really shines. My favorite life form will probably always be the 2+ hive cara/adren fade... of course scent of fear sweetens that deal...

k, so post your own advantages/disadvantages to placing different chambers first, and try to be objective and scientific about it... which is why I'm starting this thread... "omg teh sensorie 1st 5uX0r2 nubZ" helps no one.

sawce · September 2003

I'll try to post my views on them from early, mid and late game perspectives.

Sensory:

- Early: You quickly can find where marines are expanding to, and a few sensories placed with strategy will help you defend certain res nodes/hives/choke points.

- Mid: Scent of fear is still useful, as you now know where to target your attacks. The chamber-cloaking still helps for defenses, but to a smaller extent. (Lifeforms themselves should be a better defense than invisibility, imo)

- Late: One of two things. 1: You're winning. SoF helps you place your attacks, again. 2: You're losing. SoF helps you know when you're about to lose your next/last hive. The cloaking aspect, though can still be used (cloaked onos waiting for a HA meal is funny and effective), isn't as helpful vs. heavy armors and and heavy weaponry.

- Which upgrades I prefer: SoF for all classes, and all stages in the game. However, though I've yet to try it, in 2.01d you may now slowly walk while cloaked. That may help for gorging/skulking.

Movement:

- Early: Skulks, and gorges can get celerity or silence, and either be hard to catch, or hard to find. Lerks also benefit from the adrenaline, spore and spike spamming are much easier. Is nice to have placed every here-and-there on the map for quick hive access/defense.

- Mid: Skulks, gorges, and lerks still have the benefits they had before. Onos and fades also can get adren/celerity, or if they like, silence. All depends on gameplay. Directly helps with their attacking. Movements also help for hive defenses. You see a blinking red hive on your HUD, you find the closest movement, +use it, and help stop whatever may be attacking your hive.

- Late: Hive defense still viable, as is all the upgrades.

- Which upgrades I prefer: Celerity/Silence for skulk/gorge, adren for fade/lerk, celerity for onos. Adrenaline on occassion for skulks at 2 hives (I'm an leaper).

NOTE: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure I am right, the movement enhancement on OCs/Hives was removed. OCs no longer shoot faster, hives no longer spawn faster with MCs around.

Defense:

- Early: Skulks and gorges can stay alive longer vs. the enemy. Carapace skulks, though not as lethal as 1.04, take 5 more unupgraded LMG bullets to kill. Redemption skulks, if used against unupgraded LMGs can help you with your RFK stockpile you're building up. Also helps to auto-heal Offense Chambers, which can help stop marine expansion, or at least force them to siege/go another route.

- Mid: IMO, defense is *crucial* mid game. Without it, the higher life forms (fade/onos) need to run back and forth from the hive to heal up, and by heal up, I mean 20 HP/tick, which can take a long time. With carapace, fades now become more lethal, as they can take over 50% more damage, and self-regen after battle (metabolize). Onos also get their preferred upgrade (regen or redemption are the 2 most common).

- Late: Defense is also crucial late game, for the same reasons as mid game. Higher life forms need to stay in battle longer (or stay ALIVE longer) so that they may do more damage.

- Which upgrades I prefer: Carapace/redemption for skulk/gorge. Regen for fade, Carapace for fade (esp at hive 2), and regen/redemption for onos (depending on situation)

What upgrade chamber do I want first? It doesn't matter. I take whatever is placed, and I use it. If I want a specific chamber *THAT* badly, I should have went gorge, and dropped the chamber I like before somebody else dropped one I didn't like. However, I really don't like having S/M at hive 2. Especially if marines have a hive locked down. I've had some pretty bad experiences from this, one of which being a 3 hour long stalemate (relocated to sewer in mineshaft, we had other 2, and s/m). I guess this is why I say defense is crucial at mid game.

Now for some randomly placed smilies that serve no real purpose:

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

niaccurshi · September 2003

OK.

First Hive Game

You're starting out, you've planted a few res points, what chamber?

Movement?

Who it benefits?:

Everyone, there is not one alien on the team that can't gain a good ability from movement chambers. Gorges have increased mobility, skulks can move even faster or be silenced to marine ears, lerks can spore with impunity ( <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> ), And if you only have one hive when you get Fades or Onos, then both of these will benefit from adrenaline or the speed of celerity.

Advantages?:

The beauty of this is in the early game you're constantly evolving. You start as a skulk and clear out a couple of res points with adrenaline, you evolve to gorge, put up some towers, healing or spitting for longer to defend yourself, and heal other gorges that will heal you...you then get enough res to go lerk, using the same adrenaline you can spore and spike forever it seems. Then you finally get enough res to go onos or fade, and with either of these the adrenaline keeps you going in your hit and run attack.

They're also great help to gorges that are adament to stay in one or two positions to defend them, as you can heal forever if you're around just two MC's. And at these points, perhaps 40 meters away from your hive, you have outposts where you can quickly get back to your hive if it's being attacked. This goes for all aliens.

Disadvantages?:

If you are stuck at one hive, then onos and fade classes will be weaker than with SC or DC as they'll either lack the surprise or staying power in a fight. This is why it's essential that if you're going for MC's first that you also concentrate on getting a second hive up.

Also at first hive the ability to transport between hives is useless (THOUGH, you can still transport to your normal hive, as said above), and they are quite defenseless. They can't heal and they aren't hidden...so they need player support at this stage.

MT is not slowly researched by a fair few commanders, and MT is a very hash counter to movement advantages, only allowing adrenaline to go unnoticed...but then what use is that if they know you're coming?

Defence?

Who it benefits?:

It Benefits everyone, everyone could do with that extra armour and staying power, or the ability to run away and regenerate your health. Redemption for higher life forms if you only have one hive will help you keep that lifeform, especially at a time when it's more useful to have the higher life forms, as your lower ones have no extra hive abilities.

Advantages?:

Self explanitory, they help defend everything from structures to players greatly. A couple dropped around res nodes will keep them from random knife attacks, and allow OC outposts to be kept alive without much in the way of player support.

Disadvantages?:

Despite being able to take more damage, does it mean you are quick enough to get away. Not always the case, and defense on its own can give a lot of players a god like feeling they shouldn't have. MT again affects this greatly as your armour is little use to you if they know you're coming, you basically trade your extra armour for the time they know you're coming...and you're back to square one.

Level three weapons, as some comms go straight for researching, will rip straight through just about any alien, and even a few light machine gunners can take out a regen onos at hive one, especially without stomp.

Sensory?

Who it benefits?:

It benefits Lerks greatly due to SoF saving their **** against marines getting too close, gorges and skulks also get advantages from sensory for different means, hiding and stealth attacking respectively. At the first hive stage Fades and Onos, however, reap little in the way of benefits. They need not know if things are sneaking up on them, and if they want to be cloaked they don't need the upgrade, only to stand by a chamber.

Advantages?:

OC nests and hives can be hidden from view, also aliens can hide and make surprise attacks. A properly networked sensory network can mean marines are put in disarray through confusion. This way aliens stay alive longer and kill more as skulks and lerks.

Sensorys also stick around longer than most other chambers in most games.

Disadvantages?:

Sensory chambers MUST be networked, and this costs enough res to go fade or even onos sometimes...this is hard to organise with a lot of players. They also don't give much advantage to onos and fade other than a little bit in the way of a sneak attack, but even then they are a large target that gets taken down quickly.

Sensory's are weak and often in undefended places...a ping happy commander will render a sensory network useless.

Second Hive Game

So now you've already got one chamber up...what are the advantages of putting up each chamber now?

MC Combined with sensory, MC's are deadly. they provide the much needed attack speed for the fades and onos and combine it with the stealth of sensory. Skulks are absolutely deadly with silence and scent of fear, in a properly networked map...no marine will know it's there, probably until it's dead. This is the combination of mobility and stealth that is almost a general tactic for aliens.

MC combined with Defense however, then the game is now geared towards meatgrinder tactics, your big units have now the ability to take fire and dish out damage, your skulks are tough and fast little buggers. Your gorges are nimble tanks almost, or forever bile bombing machines.

DC combined with Sensory gives you a similar effect to MC, but less stealth and mobility, but more stealth and secure. If you've got DC and SC at hive two, then you're usually taking the map and controling it, probably not far off of hive three and you're boxing the marines in, not giving them much chance to kill you and grinding them down slightly. Onoses can benefit from this, whereas Fades may not do so much.

for second hive disadvantages you have the fact that if you haven't yet placed DC, then your onoses are probably not going to be that good at facing the HA they can counter...and if you haven't already placed SC then your skulks and lerks won't be able to sneak up on the marine outposts around the base so easily. If you haven't yet placed MC then you lack a lot of versatility between alien classes and you lack the attacking power or speed that you may have. You also lack the ability at a crucial stage to be able to transport accross the map to hives.

At Third Hive

At the third hive you have ALL the chambers anyway, and you have full defence, stealth and attack capability. Well done, you should be winning the game now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

In Summary

If you want a stealth game, then put SC first, you'll need the time to lay your network.
If you want a meatgrinder game, that where you wear your oponents down, then you'll want to put DC down first.
If you want to have a game where you can take everything as it comes, with a mind for taking a second hive early...and have a bit of versatility with no *great* attacking or defensive capability, but the ability to adapt...put MC first.

From there everything is about choosing the level of your attack. If you lack MC at second hive stage, then it means that you're playing a creeping game, taking the map. If you lack DC then you're playing the ultimate stealth game. If you lack SC then you're playing a very head to head meat grinder game.

No one chamber is better than the other at any point in my opinion, they just require different tactics and different levels of team involvement.

-Lee

Maveric · September 2003

MC - 2 counterable things, celerity and silence both with MT. un-counterable is adren. good for early but as soon as marines get MT silence = 110% usless since they know where you are unless you get behind them. Celerity? bah, they'll either hear the short series of clicks, turn around, and blast you... get infront and you might stand a chance. mid and late game celerity or adren is mostly used, since silence is useless. any way you choose you're vulnerable to MT; then again, everything but cloaking is. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

DC - carapace is counterable with the better weapons/upgrades obviously, so is regen. redeem is a chance machine; sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you dont. usefull for the bigger classes who can make good use of the upgrades (onos regen just shrugs off level 0-2 LMG bullets). good throughout the entire game, because it increases life-span of all aliens nicely.

SC - cloaking in next version will allow you to move slowly and stay cloaked, thus sheilded from marine MT. currently, cloak is a great ambush device, and because SCs cloak you while moving you're invisble to MT within the radius of the SC(s) that you're cloaked in. SoF is good for knowing where the marines are, though not precisely untill you get close. Pheromones... well, i think it needs to be fixed up; not replaced like enhanced sight was (with pheromones <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> ). They were onto a good plan there, with the hunting aspect; you know you're behind the marine which means that he cant track you on MT, and as long as he didn't do a 180 in your direction you're safe.

so i can safely say that the only thing that needs to be fixed is pheromones. (replace? hell no! why hell no? pheromones replaced enhanced sight (made marines glow) which was generally useless and if pheromones isn't fixed it'll get replaced with another ability that could ALSO need replacing! get the picture?)

Scylla · September 2003

If you know what willl happen later in the game you were able to "plan" a build order. But oyu dont know what will happen and my motto is:

prepare for the worst - expect the best.

So imho Def as first chamber is a must if i imagine a locksdown of two hives. Also turret bashing and killing outposts is much easier with Defs.

DrunkenSailor · September 2003

In pubs, the aliens absolutely must have Defense by hive 2 if they want to have any hope of breaking a marine outpost in hive 3 (if there isn't a marine outpost in hive 3, it probably doesn't matter what you do, the marines are screwed). The only way to break an outpost without it is a perfect mix of horning Onos, healing Gorges, and umbraing Lerks. Getting something like that together is near impossible on most pubs (and even then you're at the mercy of your pub teammates' skill), so just plan on getting D by hive 2.

That said, which chamber has to come last? Taking Sensory first is the best counter to ramboing marines, and offering a tremendous combat boost to skulks, gorges, and lerks. Fades and Onos, however, do not benefit from sensory at all in my opinion. They don't require the stealth it provides, and SoF is only mildly helpful if you're a tank of a class that can rip through 3 marines with ease. There are very few things a Fade or an Onos can see on SoF that should make them think to turn tail.

Movement provides a signifiacnt boost to every lifeform. A celerity skulk in good hands can be devestating, allowing him to cross an entire room, kill a couple of marines, and make it back to his hive in about 20 seconds. A gorge with celerity is much less of a sitting duck against shotguns, and can flee a battle if he needs. Lerk needs no comments about adren. Fade benefits from either celerity or adren (much more from celerity, however, as a good fade knows how to blink without being wasteful). But the class that gets the biggest boost is the Onos. A celerity onos can hit and run large marine clusters or outposts that would waste him otherwise.

The magic order is movement->defense->sensory, unleasing the ultimate killing machine (a regen/celerity onos) at hive 2, ensuring that marines can't hold any outposts beyond that point. Defense can come first, but movement is a much better bonus for lower lifeforms and through the use of movement chambers or celerity, all lifeforms can easily regain their life almost as quickly as with a good heal outpost.

M->D->S.

Mythr1l · September 2003

Movement - Great early game, silence is just as good as cloak for an experianced player, and celerity is usefull for getting around the map quickly, and especially in clan games the move to hive feature is essential.

DCs are great early game, but can be counterd with upgrades and loose their value after about 10 mins as an overwhelming advantage.

Sensory is very good, but you gotta watch rines dont lock down a hive because in mid/end game their useless.

BLUNTSWORTH · September 2003

Owned

DiscoZombie · September 2003

wow, a lot of ppl came through with great pros and cons. I can now see why movement is a good first hive chamber... j00 r0x0r2.

BlueNovember · September 2003

*The best way to respond to a flame is to wait for a moderator to see it.*

BLUNTSWORTH · September 2003

Owned

Talesin · September 2003

Hmm. Are we talking v2.0 standard, or one of the still-in-development betas? I'll assume standard.

Chamber 1
--------------
Movement - My personal first choice, for one reason alone. Celerity skulks. Take a small child and feed them a mixture of pixie sticks, steroids, and crack. Then hand them a pair of butcher knives, and scream real loud. You'll get roughly the same effect. You close distance faster, can flee more easily, and respond to threats on the other side of the map in a more timely fashion. Sure, Silence will get you the first hit in. Celerity will help make sure you get more than just one.

Sensory - Second choice. Marines scare easily, and it's EXTREMELY intimidating (lacking a Comm who knows how to sensor-sweep) to be asked to walk out of your base into a hallway which could, quite possibly, be filled with eight Skulks all waiting to tear you a new one as soon as you're out of sight of everyone else. Additionally, the Skulks will find it MUCH easier to time the springing of an ambush if they know when the Marines are ACTUALLY going to be coming around the corner.

Defense - Last place, IMO. Carapace slows a Skulk down, and while the forward healing may be nice, you have to hide them away. A much more difficult job for a Gorge. Regen does little for early-game evolutions (besides Lerk) and Redemption is virtually useless except for fatties.

Chamber 2
--------------
Defense - Higher evolutions are starting to show up, most likely. If they haven't yet, they will before you get the third Hive up. This will help them take on larger groups of Marines, along with the much-maligned redemption Onos.

Sensory - Useful for hiding defensive points, and serving as ambush points against Marines still working at expansion. Scent of Fear cannot be overlooked in its usefulness, if you have a Hive Defender who can note an incoming sneak-attack, and delay/injure/confuse somewhat when the Marines troupe in to kill the Hive, until reinforcements can arrive.

Movement - Didn't you already build this? Oh, well. It's less useful now with higher evolutions taking the floor... Fades able to Blink, and Onii able to suck up and deal damage pretty effectively. But it can still help an Onos catch up to fleeing Light Armors.

Chamber 3
--------------
Defense - You'll need this... you've almost already won, and the Marines are doubtless turtling up. Grab an Onos and slap Carapace on for an effective blockade-breaker.

Movement - Skulk-kamikazes will appreciate Celerity for keeping them out of the line of fire until just before they explode. Gorges will love the Adrenaline for help in bilebombing away those pesky Marine outposts, as will Acid Rocketing Fades.

Sensory - Why even build this now? I mean... the only real reason is if a Marine is being a punk, trying to hide and draw out the end-game. Scent of Fear, boom. Taken care of.

In addition, this really doesn't belong in General Discussion. Probably should be *Phased* to Kharaa Strategy.

BLUNTSWORTH · September 2003

Striiiiiike twooooo.

taboofires · September 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maveric @ Sep 1 2003, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Pheromones... well, i think it needs to be fixed up; not replaced like enhanced sight was (with pheromones <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> ). They were onto a good plan there, with the hunting aspect; you know you're behind the marine which means that he cant track you on MT, and as long as he didn't do a 180 in your direction you're safe.

 </td></tr></table> 
Marines who don't turn around every once in a while deserve their coming death.

For the most part, niaccurshi has it nailed. I just can't recommend sensory as a second chamber, as it loses its effectiveness a bit mid-game (when the marines can reasonably afford MT). It's nice to have around, but not enough to sacrifice dcs or mcs at that part of the game.

pardzh · September 2003

Sensory: Far too much res cost to use effectively, but fun against bad pub Marines.

Movement: Silence, when used by a team as a whole is amazing, as is Celerity. Allows quick response to hives under attack. Only downside I can see is if the Marines really want to, they can hop on weaps upgrades before you have your second hive up and annihlate you with L3 weaps.

Defense: My favorite first chamber for the sole reason of the Regen Fade. Early game Fades dominate and you can't lose with Regen. Slower reaction time to a hive coming under attack, but increased Hive duration when under fire if you have enough DC's healing it.

Edit: ...and if you think Fades aren't an early game evolution, your skulks are not getting ANY res for kills.

ZERG · September 2003

I think it's pretty mandatory to put DC either first or second. You absolutely need it in either those positions which totally stinks. Marine weapons get only stronger and stronger and DC has to come in sometime to counter it.

Oh and for those saying that MT counters SC, you are dead wrong. It's the other way around since SC negates the tracking in its influence.

im_lost · September 2003

SC counters MT, and obs counters SC.

Koenig · September 2003

I find that the issue of sens first is a question fo game size.

On a small server, you will not be able to get sufficient cloaking coverage from the start and you will be better off just being faster or tougher.

In larger games however (8vs8+) you can cover significant areas and make ambush zones, quick lvl3 SOF will enable you to box in the marines very efficiently. No matter how good the marines are they are at a severe disadvantage against cloaked enemies, and the comm will not have enough energy to cover all his men with sensor sweeps.

Mouse · September 2003

To be able to use sensory as a first chamber effectively, you need to use a highly agressive expansion. You need almost everyone to go cap a node an drop a sensory near to that node (not necessarily in that order). now you have an obscene res flow and an expansive sens-net. And you also need to lay ambushes, in pairs at the very least.

captmorgan · September 2003

I prefer to think of it more basely in a pub game..

if you get an upgrade chamber right off, SC is good, as it allows you to stop the marines in their first push, which can be fatal.

if you wait more then 2 minutes to drop an upgrade chamber, get MS, as silence is almost as good as cloak, and it has more use for your middle tier aliens (lerks and fades)

if you wait more then 5 minutes to get yourt first upgrade chamber (i have seen it happen) get DC's, as you need to keep the rfk's in line, and make your evolutions tougher..

an above poster was correct in that size does matter... of the game.., more then 8 players on your team. I just think Sc first cripples your mid game if it is a competitive contest, and not a rout. I rarely complain about the first chamber, another poster was right, if it bugs you that much, drop the upgrade chambers yourself, then you know you will get what you want instead of complaining about others choices..

Koenig · September 2003

Yes, speed is definitely also a major factor, if your plan is to just go out and cap res before dropping chambers, sc is not for you.

On a side note i find that is this case, dropping MC from the start can be equally as effective as SC since the marines wont have MT to counter yet.

USCMLieutenant_Ripley · September 2003

MCs just dont give a good passive ability. That is the single reason they are worst chamber. Hiding an MC in a vent or a corner is useless in almost every map location during the first 10 min of the game. The people who say "onos in 7 min" are the same people who need to be more disciplined...aka they suck against ppl of equal skill but think that killing enough newbs for an onos in 7 min makes them superior rather than objectively taking stock of where those resources should have gone (read: what the OP said).

You are no better off than if you had an SC and therefore you cannot last as long as with DC regardless of feeble arguments of "my skill is teh advantage!". Every useful SC up(grade) is designed to let you last longer. Every DC upgrade is designed to make you last longer. If you are play enough, you must realize that makes you more effective than simply being a slightly better killer because of the massive and inescapably long spawn-time with fewer hives and your average skulk deaths.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks, skulks are the basic tool of the kharaa and their effectiveness is more important than a fade's ability to regen their energy faster. Longer lasting skulks means less dead skulks means shorter respawn. You have to keep the cycle as fluid as possible. 1 Shotty rush and your precious 1st MC dooms the hive because of RESPAWN TIME not because of a lack of killing skill.

Koenig · September 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ([USCM]Lieutenant Ripley @ Sep 5 2003, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <snip>
You are no better off than if you had an SC and therefore you cannot last as long as with DC regardless of feeble arguments of "my skill is teh advantage!". Every useful SC up(grade) is designed to let you last longer. Every DC upgrade is designed to make you last longer.
<snip>
Regardless of what anyone else thinks, skulks are the basic tool of the kharaa and their effectiveness is more important than a fade's ability to regen their energy faster.
l. </td></tr></table>
Err.. MC wont make you last longer as a skulk???

Carpace will let you absorb 50% more damage, celerity will let me dodge at least 50% more bullets AND will let you dominate more ground by getting me get around faster.

I prefer MC to DC any day for that exact reason, the key for me as a skulk is knowing when to pick silence and when to pick celerity. Skulks are suposed to be up close and personal, celerity and silence are both very helpfull in that department, you could argue that cloaking near an SC is better, but SC's have limited range and are affected by sensor sweeps.

As for skulks being the basic tools; lerks and gorges are very important as well, all of the upgrades MC offers are viable to them. Once the second hive is up, MC will also be valuable as a backup chamber for gorges killing turret factories.

Deacon · September 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mouse @ Sep 3 2003, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> To be able to use sensory as a first chamber effectively, you need to use a highly agressive expansion. You need almost everyone to go cap a node an drop a sensory near to that node (not necessarily in that order). now you have an obscene res flow and an expansive sens-net. And you also need to lay ambushes, in pairs at the very least.  </td></tr></table> 
I was about to post this same thing, only using more words.

If you open with sensory, you are essentially committing to three hives. If the marines have their game on, you will need both MCs and DCs to pry them loose from their base. And once the marines hit their mid-game tech stride, you will want both MCs and DCs to contain them.

The question becomes: do you take the safe route, and build DCs/MCs right from the start? Or do you risk trying to lock down all three hives?

IME, if the marines have somewhere else to keep them busy (like a double res node) and you start in the middle hive, doing the three-hive SC lockdown is a viable strategy. If you start at one of the end hives, you will rapidly find you can't effectively reinforce the far hive. If the marines don't have anything better to do, they'll lock down a hive. While SC ambushes are great for taking out groups of two or three, they're not very helpful against an entire marine team + medspam + 1 level of armor upgrades (meaning you need at least 3 bites/marine + n bites for medspam).

gekigarion · September 2003

Well, I posted this in a thread a lot earlier, but I don't think many people read it, so I doubt reposting this will be redundant.

For first chambers:
<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sensory: Everyone has to admit that this IS a primarily defensive chamber. Although it has offensive priorities, what is it most often used for? Guarding/Ambushing. If you can get near the marine start without running into marines and putting a sensory there, such as a room like Laser Drilling, then you could say you've locked down one marine path early game(Considering you have actual attacking life forms accompanying the sensory). Although calling that an offensive tactic is stretching it.

Cloaking- One of the least used skills because all this does is give you what the chamber does-and the chamber does it a heck lot better. This is great for ambushes, and is probably the primary offensive trait. Unfortunately, without Scent of Fear, unless you have great sound and the marines aren't walking stealthily, you will have a hard time figuring out where to ambush someone.

Scent of Fear-Scouting intelligence that is great for setting up ambushes, which is why you need either a cloaked ally or a sensory chamber around. Or, you could do it the old fashioned way and stick to the roof and hope you won't be noticed.

Pheromones-This is like Scent of Fear, but it's not for you, it's for your friends. If there's a marine on the other side of the wall, and your friend is there too, he might see the trail left by the marine. Of course, he should hear the marine too, so this is more like a noob helper than anything else. Actually, it's pretty much useless.

Conclusion: Sensory is used to stop marine expansion. It is not used to stop marines once they are done expanding. In other words, if you let the marines lock down your hives, you didn't use the chamber right, and you're probably going to die.

Movement: The most offensive chamber. (No, I don't count Offense Chambers ) Primarily used to confuse or support.

Celerity-When marines see skulks with this, they become a little nervous. Excellent for melee combat, because it allows you to get close to marines faster, and allows you to dodge bullets easier. Very handy on gorges, provided the gorge is a reasonable distance from the marine and a corner or another haven of some sort. Also allows any alien to expand quickly early game.

Silence-The substitute for cloaking early game. This allows you to ambush marines in a different fashion, although you're much more easily detectable. However, silence strikes as much fear into marines as cloaking does, because sound is a marine's best friend. Besides Motion Tracking. Good only on skulks, but occassionally can save the gorge.

Adrenaline-If you're going to rush the marine base, this is what you're looking for. This allows you to spore spam and keep the marines holed up in their base, as well as giving gorges the ability to heal chambers nearly indefinetely. The primary use is for the spore spamming. VERY offensive early game.

Conclusion:This is the chamber for rushing. You hole them in with spores/adrenaline if they have turrets in their main base, if they don't you use celerity. If they do get out, hunt them down with silence.

Defense: Defensive chamber, who would have guessed that?
This chamber is used to hold territory and for hit-and-run tactics, although spore-and-run is more viable. Great for suicide attacks, but early game, none of these tactics are very appealing. You don't have enough territory to hold, and skulks do poorly in hit-and-run because of their low hp. Suicide is the only rushing tactic this is chamber offers.

Carapace-Put this on a a gorge and make him a tank. Gorges are quite dangerous provided they have a good aim, as two spit hits will nearly match the damage of a skulk's bite. Great on skulks for suicide rushes early game. Doesn't do much on a lerk.

Regeneration-Makes the gorge a tank yet again. Allows lerks to do spore-and-run attacks. If a skulk survives an encounter, allows him to return to front lines quickly. This trait is used to repel marines from a desired location.

Redemption-As alien's specialty is expanding, this is not a trait you would normally want early game. The only time to consider this trait is if the marines are rushing your hive-you run out, take a bite, and teleport a few feet away safely under the hive. In three seconds, you rush again, instead of having to die like nothing. Sensory chamber, however, is still more useful as marines rushing your hive is considered expanding.

Conclusion:Defense is viable on lerks for spore-and-run, and decent on gorges, however it is not highly offensive nor defensive early game, making it less of a good choice for a first chamber.
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Secondary:
If Sensory is your first chamber:

Movement:
In conjunction with cloaking and sense of fear, this chamber combines to make quick, deadly and sometimes silent assassinations. Offensive; once motion tracking is up marines won't be running into you while your moving cloaked, and marines middle game don't advance on key points often, but rather, defend their locked hive or double res node and try to hunt down new res nodes. Occassionally marines will attack a hive, but usually this attempt is made after many upgrades and/or HA, Jets, Advanced Weaponry.

Adrenaline:
Stick this on a lerk, and you have something that can peek through a vent, aim a spore or umbra at the correct location with SoF, and hide again in all in one half of a second. Stick this on a fade and watch Blink fly, and Metabolism will become viable as well (since you don't have defense chambers, you will want this). On a skulk it doesn't do much but leap a little more, and on a gorge, this makes bile bomb that much better.
In short, this is only good on the support units and the Fade, since Metabolism is needed. Onos don't have much to do but spam stomp, so they're left out.

Celerity:
Primary attribute for a skulk, as it makes skulks do what they do well even better. As a fade, skilled players will find Blink as a better substitute. Gorges may need this to move quickly to needed places or for good bomb-and-run attacks. Lerks fly like mad with this, but that's rarely controllable. Onos can decimate marines and bases quicker. Good at confusion. Primary use is for hit-and-run, except for suicidal skulks and for Onos.

Silence:
As this is nearly negated by motion tracking, this skill may be rendered useless quickly. paired with cloaking or SoF, a skulk can ambush marines and dissapear with leap once he's done. A lerk can only use this with spikes, however spikes are relatively weak in comparison to spores, so it doesn't fit. Fades can Blink in silently and kill one marine, and Blink back out when the other marine hears a gun clatter on the ground and turns around, leaving the marine in a state of suspence. Onos and gorges have nearly no use for hits, except for the gorge who's trying to secretly base rush. As with celerity, this attribute's primary goal is to confuse.

Defense-
Defensive chamber. (duh) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
Paired with sensory, this is only good for suicidal attacks hit-and-run. Lerks, Fades, and Onos gladly welcome this upgrade to protect their investment. Gorges become tanks, and skulks become kamikaze.

Regen:
This skill does not fit well with any sort of sensory upgrade but SoF, and that only in the case of hit-and-run tactics. Skulks would be laughed at for hit-and-run, Gorges who escape and live another day will be quite fond of this, and Lerks, Fades, and Onos will embrace this wholeheartedly. Lerks, due to their sneaky peek, shoot, and dissapear tactics, need to rely on some healing as otherwise after getting a few bullets they will be forced to leave their beloved pot-shot spot (like the marine start vent in eclipse) to go hunt for a gorge.
Fades are too large an investment to risk dying because of the inability to heal efficiently. And Onos can charge into many bases and leave unharmed with this. This attribute's primary feature is for hit-and-run, or for survivor tactics.

Carapace:
Ultimate kamikaze attribute. Works well on skulks that attack in swarms to kill that tf in the hive or the like. Works perfectly fine on gorges who are afraid they cannot last long against a marine. Lerks have absolute need of regeneration or redemption as they are too fragile as they are. Skilled Fades combining this with Metabolism will find this skill a lifesaver, allowing them to kill two marines in one run instead of one, or three if you will, you get the point. Onos with this are planning to do a MASSIVE, one-time attack on a very important location, as they are near guaranteed to lose their evolution if the enemy has competent weaponry. This attribute's primary goal is for lasting longer IN battle, but has little to with it out of battle. Good for suicide attacks.

Redemption:
Good for suicide attacks for someone who isn't willing to lose an important evolution. Near fail-proof on an Onos, almost always fails on a skulk, making that useless, with a lerk having only a slight better chance. Gorges will find this immensely handy when going alone, but immensely useless when supporting others, as gorges usually do not get shot at when more dangerous beings lurk about. Fades will find this useful if they Blink into a bad situation, but if the fades are skilled enough they are much better off with the other two skills. Overall, Redemption is for repeated suicidal attacks, with the drawback being that the attacks are only 25% efficient in comparison.

Chambers: Adv/disadv

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