Really depends on the skill of the gorges and the comm i reckon, if SC goes up first marines will usually run around like headless chickens looking for somethnig 2 kill, may times i have seen groups of marines walk into wat they think is an empty room and then get slaugthered by 5-6 offense chambers that came from nowhere.
Sens is good for one thing..... Sneaking a hive up...
Right away have 2 skulks get 50 res..... then go to a hive chamber.. go gorge.. and plop a sensory up.. in a corner out of the way
Most marines WILL put an obs at a hive location... but in most cases it is one of the last things to go up, and/or only goes up after evidence of a sensory is around...
There is the occasion where it goes up right after the 3rd turret.. but everything is a gamble
Shoot the turrets... to uncloak and make them attack you.....(make sure no one is at the hive.. or one person....
Put the hive up... and jump around allowing sufficient time for it to cloak..
If you die, its better, they think theyve won
This IS a gamble, most marines would shoot the hive area just to check... but if not... you got urself a hive!
Everyone here needs to calm down. People have differnt play styles and thus differnt people like differnt chambers first. So instead of saying things like "cloak chambers = pwn" or "it must be MC-DC-SC or you are a N00B!" just say "I like being able to move around while cloaked and sneak up on marines".
Unlike in 1.04 where there was an order accepted by 98% of people, in 2.0 all the chambers are ballanced. And the fact that no one here can agree on what is the "best" chamber only proves what a good job Flayra did.
One thing that will help end this "debate" is this <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=43138&hl=poll' target='_blank'>poll</a> which was started awhile ago. Just read the results, or vote yourself (if you didn't) and let that prove if you have the more popular play style.
<!--QuoteBegin--Machiavelli+Aug 31 2003, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Aug 31 2003, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unlike in 1.04 where there was an order accepted by 98% of people, in 2.0 all the chambers are ballanced. And the fact that no one here can agree on what is the "best" chamber only proves what a good job Flayra did. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Aug 31 2003, 05:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Aug 31 2003, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sorry, but i would rather have DCs and those 3 gorges could go Onos/Fade/Lerk and attack with you. It's bad enough that you sometimes have 3 perm Gorges in a game. With sensory you have to have more Gorges to build sens. Sensory just lacks the ability of offence and this point just proves this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally I dislike it if there are anything less than 2-3 permenant gorges in a game (considering I play servers that are 9v9 of course)...and yes I'd much rather that stayed gorge workign to help the team that way than all going onos/fade. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--biggie+Aug 31 2003, 06:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (biggie @ Aug 31 2003, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Machiavelli+Aug 31 2003, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Aug 31 2003, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unlike in 1.04 where there was an order accepted by 98% of people, in 2.0 all the chambers are ballanced. And the fact that no one here can agree on what is the "best" chamber only proves what a good job Flayra did. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> how insightful and in depth your analysis of his comment is <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> because that isn't the way the game works?
I myself used to think sensory first was pretty great but as 2.0 gradually evolved & the marines started to learn how to counter sensory first effectively I've come to learn that sensory first isn't a very good first chamber.
The only 1 really good upgrade in my opinion is Scent of Fear. Helps gorges see incoming marines to him, gives skulks/fades/onos better hunting skills, & lerks to know where to gas at. Pheomones is useless despite what anyone says. Cloaking is only good against inexperienced marines. Any marine with a good comm that knows what he's doing can easily make cloaking near useless. Only reason people love cloaking so much in 2.0 is when 2.0 first came out it was like child's play for a skulk to kill marines who were still stuck on the 1.04 strategies factoring in the mass amount of newbie players who started playing NS too with the release of 2.0. Here's an example: Marine walks into room. Skulk is cloaked right by him in front of his face. Marine gets owned.
Since everyone on the boards heard about how uber the new sensory is in 2.0 everyone started dropping it first since they wanted to try it out & also the marines at the time didn't know how to effectively counter cloaking which led to a ton of alien kills. Flash forward 2 months later. Most people playing aren't total newbies anymore and they know to shoot a few bullets down a hall, check your mini-map or have a comm scan to check for cloaked OCs/aliens.
I find more often gorges who drop sensory first it ends up coming back to haunt them later in a bad way. I think if Pheomones was replaced with something useful, (Cloaking appears to have gotten a boost but is it overpowered now?) then sensory might become a better first chamber. Right now as I see it. DCs first are still the best. It allows for more effective early fades/lerks/onos which can make or break a game.
theres more than 1 type of strat u know, each chamber has its flaws and strong sides dont go bashing on sens cuz its overrated, sensories are good in certain maps like mineshaft, nothing, and lost. each chamber is good in certain maps too
<!--QuoteBegin--biggie+Aug 31 2003, 11:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (biggie @ Aug 31 2003, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Conclusion: DONT FREAKING BUILD SENSORIES, YOU RUIN MY GAME. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And there's the problem. You think it's all about you.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>ALL CHAMBERS ARE GOOD AS FIRST CHAMBER. THIS IS HOW NS WAS MADE IN 2.0. SOME CHAMBERS MAY SEEM BETTER THAN OTHERS AS FIRST CHAMBER, BUT THAT IS YOUR OPINION, HOWEVER THE TRUTH IS THAT THEY ARE ALL EQUAL AS FIRST CHAMBER.</span></span>
Now if i was a mod, i would've locked this post now, but since im not, i guess i'll just have to make the point clear that each chamber is equal. Sensories first makes early MT useless, since MT is blocked within the SC's cloaking range but scans negate that. Defence first is good to rush marines and take it to em, but this is countered with heavy weapons that deal damage fast and deadly, making cara/regen semi-worthless. MC is as good as the other chambers in that you can move and strike quickly, or move in complete silence or attack more however this is countered with MT since MC's offer no protection from MT.
So, there you have it.
<span style='color:tan'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>THAR R N0 B3St F1RSt Ch4MB4R!!!1</b></span></span>
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Classic case of what, in warcraft 3, they call 'theorycraft'.
How does it go, in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're quite different?
Yeah, comm's really going to have the constant energy flow on his observatories to be scanning all over the map, or have the res to put up multiple obs. to afford that many scans.
MC = Adrenaline (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), Celerity (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), Silence (<i>permanent</i>, useful if by self or if everyone has it)
DC = Regeneration (<i>permanent</i>, useful especially for larger evolutions), Carapace (<i>permanent</i>, useful to nigh all), redemption (<i>conditional</i>, useful for higher cost, higher life evolutions)
SC = Scent of Fear (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), pheremones (<i>permanent</i>, useless due to SoF, never used), Cloaking (<i>conditional</i>, very useful but easily countered)
So let's see... MCs have <u><b>3</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u>. DCs have <u><b>2</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u> and 1 conditional ability that relies on luck and timing to be countered. SCs have <u><b>2</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u> and 1 conditional ability that can be countered, <b>however 1 permanent ability is useless and never used in any games</b>.
MC = 3 great DC = 2 great, 1 good SC = 1 great, 1 good, 1 useless
And people wonder why no one wants SCs first? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i>***edit: Er, forgot the obvious:
MC innate ability: <b>2</b>, teleports to furthest hive (main) and increases nearby alien's energy (secondary).
DC innate ability: Gives 10 HP or Armor per "tick" to nearby aliens.
SC innate ability: Cloaks all buildings and aliens in about a siege-style radius, less condtional (only uncloaks when you attack or are attacked)
In this case, it seems a bit more balanced imho, but does little if the upgrades are not balanced... players want cool upgrades/abilities they can use all the time, not just near something...</i>
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
edited August 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Zarparchior+Aug 31 2003, 03:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zarparchior @ Aug 31 2003, 03:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And people wonder why no one wants SCs first? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because all first chambars are equally balanced!!!11
The biggest problem is people are stuck on the fact that they *need* movement for a hive chamber. Have you stoped to think what one skulk could do with silence and a sensory network!??!? That spells death for marines!
yet another case of people putting down a lot of stuff on paper using a load of statistics, when in actual fact it bares a slightly different set of properties in game.
Sensory on paper isn't as useful to ONOS AND FADE, but then at the first hive, who has onos or fade anyway. However when you have a lot of quick skulks and lerks, a lot of vulnerable gorges...sensory comes into its own in a way you cannot measure on paper.
The cloaking and scent of fear aspects are certainly nice... but the other 2 chambers provide THREE upgrades, while sensory only provides TWO technically.
I personally love to to try new and different tactics, especially changing the order of chambers (with my team's consent, of course). IMHO, cloaking and sensories are really only useful early game, before the 'rines get MT. As soon as they get that... what does it matter that you can cloak? They still "see" you, even if you just look around...
And while it is kind of repetitious to my previous post... <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=45547' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=45547</a>
It's a damn good suggestion. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't mind which order the chambers are built in, I just adapt my style to whatever I've got. However, I do *prefer* sensory first just because I think it's great fun to use.
Of course, marines can cancel it out if the commander scans to uncloak you, but not many commanders do that (yet). I've played many games as a marine where we were getting wiped out by cloaked skulks jumping on us and pleaded with the comm to scan the area where we were constantly dying, but was completely ignored. Comms usually only use scan for sieging or if they're examining a particular area for some mysterious comm-reason. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If you send a squad of marines somewhere it would be a huge help to them to scan and uncloak the area ahead of them, otherwise they're just going find invisible skulks dropping on their heads all the way.
I forgot the name of the map, but it had like "Western Skylight" resource node and Nanogrid Status double node room.
We placed sensory first (I actually placed it) and I networked sensories from Western up to the Marine base. It was simply a slaughter. We killed them and we didn't even need onos. Only one guy went onos, but it didn't help much. I got a lot of heal spray kills 'cause of it lol. The marines did eventually get smart though and used sieges and fired randomly, but by then. It was too late, we had an onos and an army of 3rd hive skulks/lerks/gorges after 'em =D lol
I'm fine with either Sensory or Movment first. I like to stealth. so cloaking/silence are the first two things I want.
sensory can be lethal as a 1st chamber, but some people don't realize it. they start to save up for onos, and to think about "omg gorges make sure you build movments and dchambers so i can pwn" aliens can win with score 100-0 if they use sensory right.
Remember citizens, your choice of the first chamber is your right if you are the first guy to gorge and plop down an upgrade chamber. The dev team tried to make all chambers balanced, and true balance is not there yet, but there really is no reason why you cannot live with sensories. Somebody is bound to moan about the loss of his beloved cara/cele upgrades, but sensories still confer a combat advantage, and they are not the useless crap they were in 1.0x.
If someone drops a sensory, live with it. Or at least the participation of one less person in a flame war will allow you to enjoy life more.
This is NS. Its just a game. Irregardless of what chamber is dropped at the start, your life still stays the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--Demented+Aug 31 2003, 06:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Demented @ Aug 31 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember citizens, your choice of the first chamber is your right if you are the first guy to gorge and plop down an upgrade chamber. The dev team tried to make all chambers balanced, and true balance is not there yet, but there really is no reason why you cannot live with sensories. Somebody is bound to moan about the loss of his beloved cara/cele upgrades, but sensories still confer a combat advantage, and they are not the useless crap they were in 1.0x.
If someone drops a sensory, live with it. Or at least the participation of one less person in a flame war will allow you to enjoy life more.
This is NS. Its just a game. Irregardless of what chamber is dropped at the start, your life still stays the same. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen brother.
I pity the foo' who "loses it... totally." when something doesn't go their way in a game.
Learn to appreciate advantages of all the chambers and you won't be in dire straights when your preferred chamber isn't built.
Cloaking in the next update is going to be popular again. Those people who think that sensory offers nothing against turret farms? Well the new cloaking allows you to walk into fortified areas without uncloaking or being seen by MT.
However, they really do need to fix it so that Sensory has an upgrade that Onos/Fade **** can come to love.
<!--QuoteBegin--niaccurshi+Aug 31 2003, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Aug 31 2003, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yet another case of people putting down a lot of stuff on paper using a load of statistics, when in actual fact it bares a slightly different set of properties in game.
Sensory on paper isn't as useful to ONOS AND FADE, but then at the first hive, who has onos or fade anyway. However when you have a lot of quick skulks and lerks, a lot of vulnerable gorges...sensory comes into its own in a way you cannot measure on paper.
-Lee <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then the marines lock down hive 3, and you get only defense or movement.
Fades are pretty much useless, super-vulnerable without movement.
Onos and lerks really need the protection defense offers to keep them in the fight longer.
Instead, you've just crippled all your advanced aliens so that you can kill a few marines with a skulk.
As I said about the observatories:
- We walk in a room. I see a couple OCs uncloak in front of me. I get a couple hits, back up. I ask the commander to scan the room. *ping a ding* "There's 3 o chambers, a gorge, and an RT. The sens is behind the crates. Here, build this TF." We siege. Room dies.
- We are walking down a hall. Suddenly, a skulk appears right in front of me and kills me. He kills our whole squad. GG aliens. So we come back, I turn on my flashlight (Gives a nice contrast for me, I can see cloaked things MUCH easier) and crouch. The skulks think they're hidden and run right in the middle of the hall. Haha fooled you. Every time I open fire on a cloaked critter he *WILL* die. Why? Because he's not expecting it to happen. I shot the 'Lork off the clorf' like this because he was cloaked. I saw him and gunned him down. He was too surprised to move. We move in, knife the sensory to death, lock down a hive, and we are now gauranteed either easy fade kills or easy onos kills.
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Aug 31 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Aug 31 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We walk in a room. I see a couple OCs uncloak in front of me. I get a couple hits, back up. I ask the commander to scan the room. *ping a ding* "There's 3 o chambers, a gorge, and an RT. The sens is behind the crates. Here, build this TF." We siege. Room dies. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL
Anyone can describe as many different one-sided scenarios as they want. It doesn't prove a thing.
ever heard of looking at the minimap.... if you walk pasted a cloak skulk you see him
ps please close this becuause this is gonna start a flame war <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bull. Flat and utter bull. You do NOT see a cloaked alien on the mini-map until they drop cloak.
Comments
Right away have 2 skulks get 50 res..... then go to a hive chamber.. go gorge.. and plop a sensory up.. in a corner out of the way
Most marines WILL put an obs at a hive location... but in most cases it is one of the last things to go up, and/or only goes up after evidence of a sensory is around...
There is the occasion where it goes up right after the 3rd turret.. but everything is a gamble
Shoot the turrets... to uncloak and make them attack you.....(make sure no one is at the hive.. or one person....
Put the hive up... and jump around allowing sufficient time for it to cloak..
If you die, its better, they think theyve won
This IS a gamble, most marines would shoot the hive area just to check... but if not... you got urself a hive!
~Jason
Lovely for workin with 2 hive lockdowns
Unlike in 1.04 where there was an order accepted by 98% of people, in 2.0 all the chambers are ballanced. And the fact that no one here can agree on what is the "best" chamber only proves what a good job Flayra did.
One thing that will help end this "debate" is this <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=43138&hl=poll' target='_blank'>poll</a> which was started awhile ago. Just read the results, or vote yourself (if you didn't) and let that prove if you have the more popular play style.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
Personally I dislike it if there are anything less than 2-3 permenant gorges in a game (considering I play servers that are 9v9 of course)...and yes I'd much rather that stayed gorge workign to help the team that way than all going onos/fade. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
how insightful and in depth your analysis of his comment is <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
because that isn't the way the game works?
-Lee
The only 1 really good upgrade in my opinion is Scent of Fear. Helps gorges see incoming marines to him, gives skulks/fades/onos better hunting skills, & lerks to know where to gas at. Pheomones is useless despite what anyone says. Cloaking is only good against inexperienced marines. Any marine with a good comm that knows what he's doing can easily make cloaking near useless. Only reason people love cloaking so much in 2.0 is when 2.0 first came out it was like child's play for a skulk to kill marines who were still stuck on the 1.04 strategies factoring in the mass amount of newbie players who started playing NS too with the release of 2.0. Here's an example: Marine walks into room. Skulk is cloaked right by him in front of his face. Marine gets owned.
Since everyone on the boards heard about how uber the new sensory is in 2.0 everyone started dropping it first since they wanted to try it out & also the marines at the time didn't know how to effectively counter cloaking which led to a ton of alien kills. Flash forward 2 months later. Most people playing aren't total newbies anymore and they know to shoot a few bullets down a hall, check your mini-map or have a comm scan to check for cloaked OCs/aliens.
I find more often gorges who drop sensory first it ends up coming back to haunt them later in a bad way. I think if Pheomones was replaced with something useful, (Cloaking appears to have gotten a boost but is it overpowered now?) then sensory might become a better first chamber. Right now as I see it. DCs first are still the best. It allows for more effective early fades/lerks/onos which can make or break a game.
And there's the problem. You think it's all about you.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now if i was a mod, i would've locked this post now, but since im not, i guess i'll just have to make the point clear that each chamber is equal. Sensories first makes early MT useless, since MT is blocked within the SC's cloaking range but scans negate that. Defence first is good to rush marines and take it to em, but this is countered with heavy weapons that deal damage fast and deadly, making cara/regen semi-worthless. MC is as good as the other chambers in that you can move and strike quickly, or move in complete silence or attack more however this is countered with MT since MC's offer no protection from MT.
So, there you have it.
<span style='color:tan'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>THAR R N0 B3St F1RSt Ch4MB4R!!!1</b></span></span>
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Classic case of what, in warcraft 3, they call 'theorycraft'.
How does it go, in theory, practice and theory are the same thing.
In practice, they're quite different?
Yeah, comm's really going to have the constant energy flow on his observatories to be scanning all over the map, or have the res to put up multiple obs. to afford that many scans.
MC = Adrenaline (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), Celerity (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), Silence (<i>permanent</i>, useful if by self or if everyone has it)
DC = Regeneration (<i>permanent</i>, useful especially for larger evolutions), Carapace (<i>permanent</i>, useful to nigh all), redemption (<i>conditional</i>, useful for higher cost, higher life evolutions)
SC = Scent of Fear (<i>permanent</i>, useful to all), pheremones (<i>permanent</i>, useless due to SoF, never used), Cloaking (<i>conditional</i>, very useful but easily countered)
So let's see...
MCs have <u><b>3</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u>.
DCs have <u><b>2</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u> and 1 conditional ability that relies on luck and timing to be countered.
SCs have <u><b>2</b> permanent abilites that cannot be countered</u> and 1 conditional ability that can be countered, <b>however 1 permanent ability is useless and never used in any games</b>.
MC = 3 great
DC = 2 great, 1 good
SC = 1 great, 1 good, 1 useless
And people wonder why no one wants SCs first? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i>***edit: Er, forgot the obvious:
MC innate ability: <b>2</b>, teleports to furthest hive (main) and increases nearby alien's energy (secondary).
DC innate ability: Gives 10 HP or Armor per "tick" to nearby aliens.
SC innate ability: Cloaks all buildings and aliens in about a siege-style radius, less condtional (only uncloaks when you attack or are attacked)
In this case, it seems a bit more balanced imho, but does little if the upgrades are not balanced... players want cool upgrades/abilities they can use all the time, not just near something...</i>
And people wonder why no one wants SCs first? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because all first chambars are equally balanced!!!11
<i>Sarcasm if you couldn't tell.</i>
I don't see any problem if people want to say if it is balanced or not, aslong as they say why.
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Much WTH??!?!?! from the marines.
Sensory on paper isn't as useful to ONOS AND FADE, but then at the first hive, who has onos or fade anyway. However when you have a lot of quick skulks and lerks, a lot of vulnerable gorges...sensory comes into its own in a way you cannot measure on paper.
-Lee
I personally love to to try new and different tactics, especially changing the order of chambers (with my team's consent, of course). IMHO, cloaking and sensories are really only useful early game, before the 'rines get MT. As soon as they get that... what does it matter that you can cloak? They still "see" you, even if you just look around...
And while it is kind of repetitious to my previous post...
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=45547' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=45547</a>
It's a damn good suggestion. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, marines can cancel it out if the commander scans to uncloak you, but not many commanders do that (yet). I've played many games as a marine where we were getting wiped out by cloaked skulks jumping on us and pleaded with the comm to scan the area where we were constantly dying, but was completely ignored. Comms usually only use scan for sieging or if they're examining a particular area for some mysterious comm-reason. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If you send a squad of marines somewhere it would be a huge help to them to scan and uncloak the area ahead of them, otherwise they're just going find invisible skulks dropping on their heads all the way.
We placed sensory first (I actually placed it) and I networked sensories from Western up to the Marine base. It was simply a slaughter. We killed them and we didn't even need onos. Only one guy went onos, but it didn't help much. I got a lot of heal spray kills 'cause of it lol. The marines did eventually get smart though and used sieges and fired randomly, but by then. It was too late, we had an onos and an army of 3rd hive skulks/lerks/gorges after 'em =D
lol
I'm fine with either Sensory or Movment first. I like to stealth. so cloaking/silence are the first two things I want.
they start to save up for onos, and to think about "omg gorges make sure you build movments and dchambers so i can pwn"
aliens can win with score 100-0 if they use sensory right.
Gods know <i>everybody</i> should agree and abide by what <i>you</i> prefer...
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If someone drops a sensory, live with it. Or at least the participation of one less person in a flame war will allow you to enjoy life more.
This is NS. Its just a game. Irregardless of what chamber is dropped at the start, your life still stays the same.
If someone drops a sensory, live with it. Or at least the participation of one less person in a flame war will allow you to enjoy life more.
This is NS. Its just a game. Irregardless of what chamber is dropped at the start, your life still stays the same. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen brother.
I pity the foo' who "loses it... totally." when something doesn't go their way in a game.
Learn to appreciate advantages of all the chambers and you won't be in dire straights when your preferred chamber isn't built.
However, they really do need to fix it so that Sensory has an upgrade that Onos/Fade **** can come to love.
Sensory on paper isn't as useful to ONOS AND FADE, but then at the first hive, who has onos or fade anyway. However when you have a lot of quick skulks and lerks, a lot of vulnerable gorges...sensory comes into its own in a way you cannot measure on paper.
-Lee <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then the marines lock down hive 3, and you get only defense or movement.
Fades are pretty much useless, super-vulnerable without movement.
Onos and lerks really need the protection defense offers to keep them in the fight longer.
Instead, you've just crippled all your advanced aliens so that you can kill a few marines with a skulk.
As I said about the observatories:
- We walk in a room. I see a couple OCs uncloak in front of me. I get a couple hits, back up. I ask the commander to scan the room. *ping a ding* "There's 3 o chambers, a gorge, and an RT. The sens is behind the crates. Here, build this TF." We siege. Room dies.
- We are walking down a hall. Suddenly, a skulk appears right in front of me and kills me. He kills our whole squad. GG aliens. So we come back, I turn on my flashlight (Gives a nice contrast for me, I can see cloaked things MUCH easier) and crouch. The skulks think they're hidden and run right in the middle of the hall. Haha fooled you. Every time I open fire on a cloaked critter he *WILL* die. Why? Because he's not expecting it to happen. I shot the 'Lork off the clorf' like this because he was cloaked. I saw him and gunned him down. He was too surprised to move. We move in, knife the sensory to death, lock down a hive, and we are now gauranteed either easy fade kills or easy onos kills.
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LOL
Anyone can describe as many different one-sided scenarios as they want. It doesn't prove a thing.
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ever heard of looking at the minimap.... if you walk pasted a cloak skulk you see him
ps please close this becuause this is gonna start a flame war <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bull. Flat and utter bull. You do NOT see a cloaked alien on the mini-map until they drop cloak.
Typical of the MC UBER ALLES crowd.