GeForce Questions

MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
<div class="IPBDescription">'cause i'm too lazy to ask elsewhere</div>Yeah, that's me. Lazy. Anywho...

Ok, all this stuff with the GeForce 4 has me confused... there's MX, TI, 420's, 500's, and all kinds of other weird numbers.... I -think- the TI is better, and obviously the higher the number the better, but I don't want to spend too much money on something I don't need.

Which of the GF4's better series (TI, right?) would be the most bang for my buck?

Next question... Where can I get one that isn't all weirded out by the manufacturer? The graphics card I have now is an ATI built by -Gateway- (ick) and in order to install the standard ATI drivers I have to jump through weird hoops (and the Gateway drivers are about two years old).
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Comments

  • JediYoshiJediYoshi The Cupcake Boss Join Date: 2002-05-27 Member: 674Members
    Hmm, I know zero bout video cards, but my bro just bought a GeForce MX 4, and to be honest its only a couple of notches above the TNT2. But again I know nothing, and I could be off bout this.
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    OK, I read an article in <a href="http://www.atomicmpc.com.au" target="_blank">Atomic Maximum Power Computing</a> about the "X-Micro Impact Ti4200 64MB" they game it 9 out of 10. In two out of three benchmarks it outpeformed the 128MB model of the same card with a smidgen of overclocking. Since it is a Australian mag there is only <a href="http://www.auspcmarket.com.au" target="_blank">this</a> link to a retailer. It costed $423.5 Australian at the time of publishing (Second of July). If I was going to buy a mid range card, this would be the one. If i was going to go all out and get the cream, I would wait for the <a href="http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/parhelia512/technology/gigacolor.cfm" target="_blank">Matrox Parhelia 512</a>. One lucky guy/gal got one at E3.

    --Scythe--
    <a href="mailto:the_only_scythe@subdimension.com">the_only_scythe@subdimension.com</a>
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    The best raw FPS comparison article I saw was <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q2/020418/index.html" target="_blank">here</a>, Molec.

    I just bought a <b>Visiontek Gforce4 Ti 4200 128MB</b>. It was the best performance of a Ti without crossing a major price boundary. I only paid $229, and that was at a Best Buy, not me finding some special deal online. To give you an idea about performance in real life, I can play a game of Natural Selection at 32-bit color, 1600x1200, in Bast's particle filled ventilation system by the marine spawn with several players in there with me, and get 100FPS. It would go faster, but HL is artifically capped on frames. I would be getting 199FPS in the Quake3 demo001 - if I owned Q3!

    So, it's good. I also bought it because it was the card Carmack said would run Doom3 near full detail.

    <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

    I would recommend against getting a 4600 due to expense, or an MX due to the massive loss of processing power.



    <!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|Aug. 02 2002,10:29-->
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    Just make sure you've got an AGP slot in there, GAteway usually builds everything onboard, may sound like a stupid thing to say, but just make sure.

    Oh, and <a href="http://www.newegg.com" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com</a> has great prices, fast shipping time, and with all 3 orders from them, they've wrapped it in so much packing, a freaking A-bomb could go off next to it and not hurt it much.
  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Members
    I put a Gainward in my new machine this spring.  I have a Geforce 3 but it looks like you can get a Geforce 4 for the same price I paid :/  Have a look toward the bottom of this <a href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=48&manufactory=1387&DEPA=1" target="_blank">link</a>.  I've had 0 issues with my card and the performance is excellent.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    For performance at a lower price The GeForce 4 Ti 4200  is a good thing to go for.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Ahh, we seemed to have reached agreement on the Ti4200 here. There is a good specific article about it right here, called

    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q2/020409/index.html" target="_blank">Big Little Sister - The GeForce4 Ti4200 </a>
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    Your a big fan of Tom's hardware, aren't you MonsE?

    I always found them a little biased towards Intel, but hey...

    Thanks for the links anyway. As soon as I get a decent job, a GF4 is going in <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • DruBoDruBo Back In Beige Join Date: 2002-02-06 Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
    Molec: the Geforce4 Ti is definitely a good card. But if you're on a budget, or are just bargain shopping, and find a Geforce3 Ti500 (not the 200, they're quite different[shut up, Legionnaired]) for a lot less than a Geforce4 Ti4200. Why? because a Geforce4 Ti4200, unlike its faster siblings, is merely a speed-bumped Geforce3 Ti500. Same chip, different name.

    Legion's suggestion to buy hardware from newegg.com is valid. I'm a freelance system builder, and I almost exclusively buy parts from them.

    <edit>actually, the Geforce4 Ti4200 seems to be selling for cheaper than the Geforce3 Ti500. hmm.</edit>

    <slightly off-topic>I think the heatsink on
    <a href="http://65.119.30.151/productimage/14-122-144-01.JPG" target="_blank">this</a> particular Geforce4 Ti4200 is really, really, cool looking. Here's some <a href="http://www.essencompu.com/nupplysingar.asp?ID=2085" target="_blank">more</a> information about that card, from another very reputable online vendor.</slightly off-topic>
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    From what i have read ( i am buying a new 3d card, so doing alot of research), the Gainward GeForce4 Ti4200 is the best bang for yer buck. its almost as good as the 4600, and it comes with overclocking software that the EXPECT you to use, which makes it pretty much just as good. thats what i'm getting, and thats what i would reccomend.

    remember, ebay and www.pricewatch.com
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    as nobody has explained the differences between MX and TI here goes:

    MX - budget line
    TI - premium line

    so the MX is cheaper cards that have less features and perform way worse than the TI series, which are at the head of the pack (except for that new ATI 9700 card, which is 2x faster than the ti4600!)

    As far as manufactor goes, most gf cards only differ by maybe 5 FPS at the absolute most. So instead look for things like quality of construction, warranty, features (some gf's have video INPUT or tv-tuners if you want that sorta thing), etc.

    I recommend Visiontek brand because their cards are barely modified from teh nvidia reference card, and for drivers, they do NOT have their own crap like other card makers, they just point you to the nvidia reference drivers. There's also not any software bundles of games you don't play or already have because htey are a year old, so its cheaper since you're not paying for that. High quality card too.

    I have a Visiontek GF4 ti4400 and i am nothing but elated with it. I love it each and every time I play anything, whether its warcraft3, dungeon siege, gta3, or even little old half-life. Quake 3 at 180fps is quite fun ya know ;)

    as far as the 4200 vs the 4400, speed and cost are the main consideration yes, but also take note of the things said about the 4200 having less features and whatnot. if you feel these are gonna be important to you (they probably won't heh) then get the 4200, or if you want the speed increase of the 4400, go for that. If they sky is the limit and you like to throw away $100 for an extra 12fps, then get the ti4600 :P (but if you're spending that kinda money, wait on the ATI 9700 instead, as its same price but faster).

    Just *DO NOT* get the gf4 mx, as it is slower than a GF2 Ti, which you can find for way cheaper.

    I recommend you check out the <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1647" target="_blank">Anandtech UT2003 Video Card Benchmarks</a>. They're quite nice for showing the performance of cards in a handy chart. Make sure to check the 1600x1200 performance charts too to see where the cards start to have a bigger gap between them, as at low res, EVERYTHING is gonna run fine and dandy :P

    [edit]
    those benchmarks don't include the new 9700, you can find a comparrison between it and the gf4 ti4600 (and they threw in the matrox card to make you giggle and laugh at how slow it is too!) <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=18" target="_blank">here</a>.



    <!--EDIT|DOOManiac|Aug. 02 2002,13:21-->
  • 8_Ball8_Ball Join Date: 2002-03-17 Member: 327Members
    Well, I was forced to get Geforce 4 MX 420 (low on cash), and it was only about as good as a high end Geforce 2...
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--DrunkenBozo+Aug. 02 2002,12:58--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (DrunkenBozo @ Aug. 02 2002,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><edit>actually, the Geforce4 Ti4200 seems to be selling for cheaper than the Geforce3 Ti500. hmm.</edit><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Phear meh!!! Not like I dropped 200 bucks without doing a little research, ya know! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    At high resolutions, that new ATI card only is up a few framereates...

    And, GeForce cards have built-in OCability in their drivers...

    Nvidia=win!
  • SmokeMastaSmokeMasta Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 430Members
    get a gf4 Ti the MX is designed for desktop users and not for gamers. you realy need the infinteFX II engine and the LMA II together on 1 board so the TI is the only option.
    the Gf3 Ti is faster than a Gf4 MX.
    actualy the gf4 MX is just a overclocked old chip with some new software with it
  • DruBoDruBo Back In Beige Join Date: 2002-02-06 Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
    Molec, the whole reason that people instinctively hate the GF4 MX is because of its lack of programmable shaders. These are something present in the GF4Tis, the GF3s, and all Radeons higher than 8500. They are little bits of silicon real estate located on the chips themselves that can be programmed(hence the name) to render some Really Cool Stuff™, such as dynamic bump maps, volumetric particle effects (e.g. fire), and realistic water. You'll need this technology to enjoy DooM 3 in all of its 3d glory. And did I mention the GF4 MX doesn't have it?

    Other than that, GF4 MX chips aren't that bad. They're just GF2s in pretty new packaging. Want a new card? Get a GF4 Ti. Or a radeon.

    Oh, and whoever said that thing about ATI chips not having native overclocking support: They're like that for a reason, that reason being that they're already clocked very, very high and any further pushing could damage the basic workings of the chip. There are 3rd party OC tools for Radeons, but ATI's message is clear: Overclock at your own risk. We won't help you break your own video card.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    Does anyone know what the most recent GeForce card is that supports AGP 1.0?  I'm looking into upgrading my PC and I just dicovered I only have an AGP 1.0 slot  <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    hmm.. looking at pricewatch, yeha the 4200 IS cheaper than the ti500... hmm.. oh well. i got my 4400 before the 4200 was out :P i'm still very happy with it and don't plan on upgrading till the day doom iii comes out ;)
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    i think all geforce cards are backwards compatible, so i think even a geforce 4 would run with a agp 1.0 slot, i run a geforce2 TI on an AGP 1.0 slot , and it works fine s:)
  • GencideGencide Join Date: 2002-05-30 Member: 698Members
    I hate the supposed worst card on the market, the Geforce 2 Mx 200.

    You know, it doesn't run to bad, but I KNOW I could be getting better framerates and graphical performance from a newer card. Say i'm on a budget...whats the Geforce 3 ti worth ?

    <edit> Nevermind, this question was already answered in another post I found <edit>

    <EDIT AGAIN> Hey I have a new question: I am on Price watch .com and I see a Geforce 2 TI for 50 bucks, which is nice and probably alot better than my card eh? But whats better a GTS or a TI? <EDIT>
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    Ah, thanks everyone. So the GF4 TI420(0) is the way to go. And Visiontek is the manufacturer to get it from (I ph34r manufacturer drivers. I wuv reference drivers).

    And yeah, I definitely made sure to not get a computer with anything built on-board. Gateway is good about doing stuff smart, except apparently for their driver setup.
  • DruBoDruBo Back In Beige Join Date: 2002-02-06 Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin--Gen()cide+Aug. 02 2002,16<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Gen()cide @ Aug. 02 2002,16<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey I have a new question: I am on Price watch .com and I see a Geforce 2 TI for 50 bucks, which is nice and probably alot better than my card eh? But whats better a GTS or a TI?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The GTS and TI are almost equal, with the TI having a measly, unnoticable speed advantage.

    Pricewatch.com shopping is a little more difficult than it seems. Here are some tips to keep you out of trouble:

    Never buy the cheapest item on the list. Even if it seems like it's exactly like the next one.

    Never buy anything branded as "generic" or "house brand".

    If a deal appears too good to be true, it probably is, and you're just throwing away your money on any of the following:

    1)Broken parts

    2)mislabeled parts that you don't want

    3)they take your money, but don't ship anything, and don't respond to emails, phone calls, or inquiries by the BBB.

    My suggestion would be to go with <a href="http://www.enpc.com/cgi-bin/enpc/VISGF2TIOEM.html?id=8RH4TXmv" target="_blank">this one</a>, because it's a good brand and on a site that I've ordered from and know they're good.
  • SmokeMastaSmokeMasta Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 430Members
    i run a Gf4 Ti 4400 on a 1x agp slot

    sales guy said to me that the some of the older agp mobo's could create probs.
    i have a old agp slot but no probs here
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DrunkenBozo+Aug. 02 2002,15:49--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (DrunkenBozo @ Aug. 02 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->My suggestion would be to go with <a href="http://www.enpc.com/cgi-bin/enpc/VISGF2TIOEM.html?id=8RH4TXmv" target="_blank">this one</a>, because it's a good brand and on a site that I've ordered from and know they're good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    *erhm* You do realize that's a GF2, right? I have an ATI Radeon (VE, I think... Gateway never was very clear about what kind of Radeon it is) and I want the GF4's pixel shading and such...
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    Cool, good to see that a prebuilder wont screw you over like compaq...

    Anyway, cool. Hope you find a card for you soon, Molec.
  • Ghetto_RiceGhetto_Rice Join Date: 2002-07-01 Member: 854Members
    Wait 2 weeks and go get urself a Radeon 9700 <--- its new. In any and i meanany benchmark it beat the Gf4 Ti4600 by at least 50% and even 250% in some cases. Now thats bang 4 ur buck.
  • SmokeMastaSmokeMasta Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 430Members
    ATI said the same thing about the 8500
    and that never happand
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    250%= about 2 FPS at high resolutions...

    Sure, at low resses it has high framerate, but who is gonna run the game in 640x400 anyway, if they can do 1600x1200 w/o blinking?
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    molec, do yerself a favor and type dxdiag in the run window to tell yerself what the heck youve got  in there  <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • DruBoDruBo Back In Beige Join Date: 2002-02-06 Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin--Moleculor+Aug. 02 2002,17:21--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Moleculor @ Aug. 02 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--DrunkenBozo+Aug. 02 2002,15:49--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (DrunkenBozo @ Aug. 02 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->My suggestion would be to go with <a href="http://www.enpc.com/cgi-bin/enpc/VISGF2TIOEM.html?id=8RH4TXmv" target="_blank">this one</a>, because it's a good brand and on a site that I've ordered from and know they're good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    *erhm* You do realize that's a GF2, right? I have an ATI Radeon (VE, I think... Gateway never was very clear about what kind of Radeon it is) and I want the GF4's pixel shading and such...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was talking to Gen()cide. That's why I quoted him in my post.
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