Do You Consider This An Exploit?
sawce
Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10787Members
Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10787Members
<div class="IPBDescription">About the phase gates...</div> I did a basic search for this, and couldnt find any results, and I'm wondering what you people think about this:
When you're alien, and marines have a phase gate up (either undefended, or you took down all the phase gate's defenses), if you simply stand on top of the phase gate while you attack it, no marines may phase into that gate. Or, rather, a gorge could build a chamber on top of the phase gate to block it, while other aliens attack other things.
I've always felt this was a feature, it would make it so marines were forced to defend their phase gates, not simply counting on telefrag to kill anything attacking it. Now marines are forced to defend a phase gate as much as they are forced to defend the tfact itself (by building sentries all around it), or risk having aliens swiftly put it out of operation. However, when I do it, there's always someone crying foul, saying I am exploiting a bug. Surely if it was an exploit, it would have been caught during playtesting, right?
What do you feel about this? Bug/exploit, or feature, and why?
When you're alien, and marines have a phase gate up (either undefended, or you took down all the phase gate's defenses), if you simply stand on top of the phase gate while you attack it, no marines may phase into that gate. Or, rather, a gorge could build a chamber on top of the phase gate to block it, while other aliens attack other things.
I've always felt this was a feature, it would make it so marines were forced to defend their phase gates, not simply counting on telefrag to kill anything attacking it. Now marines are forced to defend a phase gate as much as they are forced to defend the tfact itself (by building sentries all around it), or risk having aliens swiftly put it out of operation. However, when I do it, there's always someone crying foul, saying I am exploiting a bug. Surely if it was an exploit, it would have been caught during playtesting, right?
What do you feel about this? Bug/exploit, or feature, and why?
Comments
Frankly, I think Phase Gates, for the fact that they have the power to instantly reinforce an area with marines in SECONDS have WAAAAY too many hitpoints. It's impossible to take out a well defended outpost if there's a PG there without taking out the PG first. And if you try, suddenly tons and tons of HA marines start pouring through the PG. There's no way to stop it.
Frankly, I think Phase Gates, for the fact that they have the power to instantly reinforce an area with marines in SECONDS have WAAAAY too many hitpoints. It's impossible to take out a well defended outpost if there's a PG there without taking out the PG first. And if you try, suddenly tons and tons of HA marines start pouring through the PG. There's no way to stop it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You shoulda seen 1.0 PG's. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
IIRC building on IP's and PG's is considered an exploit.
Frankly, I think Phase Gates, for the fact that they have the power to instantly reinforce an area with marines in SECONDS have WAAAAY too many hitpoints. It's impossible to take out a well defended outpost if there's a PG there without taking out the PG first. And if you try, suddenly tons and tons of HA marines start pouring through the PG. There's no way to stop it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You shoulda seen 1.0 PG's. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
IIRC building on IP's and PG's is considered an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been reading this boards for a long time and a few months ago it was more or less agreed that the phase technology is probably the most useful, powerful in the game, and the phase gate should be a delicate, fragile piece of technology.
Did you know the PG has more hitpoints then an ARMORY?
I think your wrong, because all it takes is a bit of team work to prevent that PG from getting there in the first place. If its there, once again teamwork will get rid of it!
If anything PGs die too quickly, the marines spend all there time Humping that armory when they are only going to die 30 shots after jumping through the PG anyway! When they finally stop humping the armory and now have 250 rnds, the PG is already dead!
I think your wrong, because all it takes is a bit of team work to prevent that PG from getting there in the first place. If its there, once again teamwork will get rid of it!
If anything PGs die too quickly, the marines spend all there time Humping that armory when they are only going to die 30 shots after jumping through the PG anyway! When they finally stop humping the armory and now have 250 rnds, the PG is already dead! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, you have two hives, your team of 8 is at or around 30-ish res. You have one fade, and 2 lerks. The rest are skulks, but can afford to go gorge. The marines all have HA, some GLs, some Shotguns, but the majority still have LMGs. Level 2 upgrades.
There's a phase gate set up in the middle of the Cargo Room on Tanith. There's a turret factory and an observatory there with about 10-odd-some turrets around the room. The turret factory is in the middle of the room, up on one of the crates. WAY too far for a bilebomb, and if you go up to engauge it, the sentries tear you apart. The marines have PGs at every outpost (15 res? Sheesh what a bargain). Your team is split more or less in half because these outposts are completely blocking the way.
How do you destroy the phase gate, which is surrounded by turrets, in LESS THEN THE 10 SECONDS it takes for 3 heavy armors with grenade launchers and guns to come through?
We had this EXACT same situation on Tanith yesterday. We won, just barely, but I want to hear how YOU planned on taking this out.
BTW: Those 'Well it's your fault that it's there' arguments just make you look like a fool. In fact, if you're using them, you ARE a fool. Sorry moderators, but if you think I'm flaming, think about that 'argument' in your head. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's like saying 'it's your fault they have shotguns'.
The only way to counter this is to spend money making sure each phase gate has turrets to defend it from aliens sitting on it, and then an obs nearby to defend it from cloaked aliens sitting on it. This is way too much imo.
Situation one:
We had a fade blink in and a lerk umbra him. A gorge was nearby and began to bilebomb nearby turrets. If he came into the room to hit the priority targets, the turrets would attack him.
The fade took TWO SWIPES at the phase gate and three heavy armors came through.
One had a grenade launcher and began firing at the gorge. POWIE KABLAMMO the gorge was turned to a fine mist and the lerk was pretty much dead.
The other two had LMGs and proceeded to tear the fade apart. He barely escaped with 40 health left. They then welded the place up and went home.
Situation two: The gorge (Now as a lerk) and the other lerk return, and begin to spike the turret factory to death. The fade is back and begins hitting the turret factory from a blind spot behind the crates.
SWOOSH SWOOSH SWOOSH in comes another band of heavy armors. This time... they have SHOTGUNS. The lerks run like rabbits and they proceed to down the fade in one second flat.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=45138' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=45138</a>
Frankly, I consider standing on the phase gate to disable it an exploit. But currently, there's very little the aliens can do to STOP a phase gate aside from standing on it, or going on a suicidal charge which most likely won't succeed, because it just takes one marine and a few seconds and *Poof* another phase gate is up for a lousy 15 res.
I was marine, it was 10vs10 we did pretty good at first by securing Reactor room and the res on the way to waste, then we sieged waste and forced the aliens out of it. by the time we secured waste, the com dropped a CC at waste and relocated to the small ledge where the res node is.. we didn't even have that many turrets, like 5 on the top and 5 on the big cylinder thing below, but we had lvl3 tech and we were slowly saving up to equip everyone with heavy armor and HMG. we lost control of the rest of the map and we thought we were losing, all our attempts until then of a full squad of heavies pushign out left us injured and losing men, so we retreated the 2 or 3 HA we had left and rebuilt, our base got ransacked while they were out. Then the com finaly did something smart, after hundreds of request for JPs he finaly made some. this is what changed the course of the game, one JPer flew in the vent just outside waste going towards fusion hive. he built a Phase gate inside of the vent and we proceeded to siege from the vent and destroyed the Lame walls andgot down and built a new PG out in the open hall.we downed fusion so aliens were left with one hive. onos were neutered without stomp, lerks cant umbra, we were mowing through aliens like they were nothing. best of all gorges couldn't bilebomb so we took cargo and fusion's nodes and electrified them and we actualy held them. after that we could afford to keep everyone equipped even when they were dieing. it was a great game, I found a Grenade launcher someone dropped in cargo and used it to blow down one of the biggest WOLs you'd ever seen in chemical transport. we finished off satcom now that aliens were down to 1 res node and all the onos had died.
I'd say the combination of PG and using high ground to keep us away from onos is what lead to the victory.
totally
"Get your men to No Name now Sargent, we have a Gorge blocking the pipes!" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The comm should just recycle that phasegate and teach his marines how to defend.
Its like "telling people to jump of the bridge to get rich" is an exploit.
I so often had soo much fun eating whatever came out of 2 ips while we ambush marine spawn with half of the marines being anywere else.
40 res in 5 minutes.
Of course, defending the base properly in the first place would be a lot less painful.
However, I do feel marketedly different about building OC's on phase gates and ips ... which I consider an exploit in line with fade acid rocket through glass. The reason I draw the difference is in a measure of hp/cost ... an OC has much more hp than any of the weaker(non-onos) alien evolutions for less cost. Essentially it allows a single, abeit dedicated, gorge to rush an outpost and disable transit for several seconds at the cost of 10 res. If it were an alien besides an onos ... it would be quick to get rid of (if someone wants to spend 100 res to block phase gates go right ahead) but an OC can last long enough to change a game. Simply put, I feel that the potential reward from using OC's to block phase gates(and a lesser extent ips) is out of line with the risk involved (20 res). Ip's are now less of an issue due to /stuck.
Now Teflon ... a phasegate only takes 15 bilebombs to be destroyed ... meaning 3 gorges can kill that thing in about 10 seconds (moderate response time). If you had 1 onos to absorb turret fires, 2 lerks for spore/umbra, and 3 gorges for bilebomb ... that base would most likely go down before too much support arrives. If you did not have an onos ... get instead 5 gorges and 1 lerk (assuming 6 person teams) and have the lerk umbra the group while all the gorges rush the phase ... it should go down in about 5 seconds. It normally requires a large number of aliens to take out a marine outpost before support arrives ... as it should. And ... if the marines DO respond in 5 seconds ... then they are kick **** and probably deserve to win.
And how many bilebombs does a PG take? 3 or something (seriously its only ~20) if you didn't get 2nd hive you are a useless alien side...Lerk spikes even do the job quite quickly.
Don't worry you alien lovers can keep going until marines are just puppy dog's that follow your wishes and you start with 1000 res.
Technically, you'd think it would keep Marines from telefragging each other by scanning to see if the portal is blocked by any obstruction before teleporting a Marine there. Aliens should count as an obstruction just as much as the Marines do.
It is called teamwork... how about you go get some and then counter the aliens?
Same with the phase, however, there are counters to your counter (which have also been mentioned).
If cloaked alien:
- Scan
- Have a little forethought and build a forward obs beforehand
Otherwise:
- Turrets should be built far enough out from the TF so that a gorge dies by the time it reaches the gate
- One man with a shotty in the middle of a turret farm drives off anything, including onos. Are your marines willing to defend what they've taken?
- Anything other than a OC or an onos should die from your turrets before they can kill the gate. If not, that position is not well defended (Meaning either you didn't leave a guy with shotty or you didn't put enough turrets in place of the guy with shotty).
It *could* be an exploit, but I still find it hard to believe such a mistake was made.
-JohnnySmash