Shotguns...
itsmemo
Join Date: 2003-07-17 Member: 18232Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-07-17 Member: 18232Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">too overpowered.</div> these things annoy me, frusterate me, hell they **** me off.
in mid game, skulks cant do jack **** against them especially against jp/shotty. I know its changing to 8/40 clip but that wont change much.
-there strogner than hmgs
-ha trains of them destroy everything
-demolish onos in seconds
-they are 10 res....
-even more deadly with motion tracking
-its extremly hard to miss and dodge
-shotgun rush is nearly impossible to stop unexpectedly
-lvl 3 shotgun kills fade in 1 direct hit
now i know all of you are going to reply "live with it" or "there are counters go find out" but that doesnt help..
in mid game, skulks cant do jack **** against them especially against jp/shotty. I know its changing to 8/40 clip but that wont change much.
-there strogner than hmgs
-ha trains of them destroy everything
-demolish onos in seconds
-they are 10 res....
-even more deadly with motion tracking
-its extremly hard to miss and dodge
-shotgun rush is nearly impossible to stop unexpectedly
-lvl 3 shotgun kills fade in 1 direct hit
now i know all of you are going to reply "live with it" or "there are counters go find out" but that doesnt help..
Comments
I sort of agree. Shotguns are more viable and cost effective than either HMGs or the GL currently, and are crucial to a marine teams victory.
However they are still an investment and like all weapons very easy to lose.
It bothers me how fast a gang of shotgunners can demolish a hive in seconds pre-umbra, but if taken down you easily end up costing a marine team 100+ res if you factor in health spamming and the cost of shotguns
*bloop* <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> *bloop* <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> *bloop*
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> *bloop* <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> *bloop* <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <- "where the hell is my team?"
LMG > Shotguns > Hmg > GL
It gets better and better,and i would prefer an hmg over a shotgun,seing as how i dont have to reload,got an insane ROF and fairly good accuracy and power...So yea.Shotguns may be there in middle game but then they will tech into HMG and then you have an even bigger problem...Its just like warcraft.You can either be a newbie and dont go anywhere,You can fast tech (Getting shotguns,hmg's really fast) Or you can slow tech (Getting fair ammount of resources,making defense,and slowy but steadily growing to the top)
Dizzy souls is right,Its all about tactics,Hell i took out 2 HA's with HMG's with a skulk...Its called : Wall walking,Cloaking and silence...Its beautifull
I actually don't quite agree as discussion can be useful. But I agree with is in this case.
SG's are currently marines only salvation.
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I have noting to say to that...
They are only good for short range stuff and pretty balanced IMO
They are only good for short range stuff and pretty balanced IMO <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not like hmg or lmg are any better. The only long range weapon is the pistol.
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I have noting to say to that... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet you did. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now if they were the properly overpowere rather then too overpowered, it would be great. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I know all too well about it :o
(plus 8 is a better number in terms of shotguns <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
This problem is especially evident with the fade, mainly because you are a much bigger target then a skulk so you're easier to hit. Also you're slower then a skulk. You may say that your hit point and armor bonus negate this, but the shotgun can do an insane amount of damage and your chances of living is only increased slightly.
As a marine, I would rather have a shotgun then a LMG.
I will show you how powerful this weapon is - one time I was on the marines we where assualting a hive on eclipse, computer core I think it's called, and I stood on a TF and I shotgunned, at least 20 spawning skulks. 15 of them I got insta-kills the other took a few more shots because I missed. They where dead before they could even move. If I had a LMG, or even a HMG they would of been able to move at least for more then 1 second. My team was able to easily take down the hive because the power of the shotgun was able to easily halt any alien counter attack.
That is my take on the shotgun.
Just using the shotgun in games makes me feel dirty, if a skulk leaps at me its so easy to take him down with one hit, if i see him on the ground no matter how artful he is at doging, it still takes 1-2 shots to kill it, lerks i can kill in one clip and onoses are so easy, even easier when they are charging since they are going straight for you
You expect a vanilla skulk to have an advantage over a marine who just had ten res spent on them? Even fully upgraded skulks (6 res) should be owned by shotty equipped marines.
What about shottys vs. other aliens?
Bah, you people are just complaining simply because shottys make it harder to go solo (rambo) on aliens. They are supposed to work together!! Lerks make any (gun besides the gl) NEARLY USELESSS with UMBRA! Three aliens working in unision with each other (considering that this threesome has somewhat of a variety between them) would hack and slash though shotty marines no prob.
And why doesn't anybody feel bad when using alien weapons? Oh how easy it is to slash a marine as a fade, or the amount of destruction you can cause with a single properly upgraded onos?
Techique & Strategies > Sheer power
You expect a vanilla skulk to have an advantage over a marine who just had ten res spent on them? Even fully upgraded skulks (6 res) should be owned by shotty equipped marines.
What about shottys vs. other aliens?
Bah, you people are just complaining simply because shottys make it harder to go solo (rambo) on aliens. They are supposed to work together!! Lerks make any (gun besides the gl) NEARLY USELESSS with UMBRA! Three aliens working in unision with each other (considering that this threesome has somewhat of a variety between them) would hack and slash though shotty marines no prob.
And why doesn't anybody feel bad when using alien weapons? Oh how easy it is to slash a marine as a fade, or the amount of destruction you can cause with a single properly upgraded onos?
Techique & Strategies > Sheer power <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right a skulk shouldn't stand that much of a chance against a shotty. But what about a 54 res fade dieng in 1 shot to the shotty?
If the amount of res spent is your basis for what should kill what then why should 10 res be able to kill dozens of upgraded skulks?
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If the amount of res spent is your basis for what should kill what then why should 10 res be able to kill dozens of upgraded skulks?
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And vice versa.
A fully upgraded skulk would own dozens of vanilla marines, no sweat. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And you have not put into the factor that skulks are the earliest and lowest forms of evolution on the alien side. Would it not make sense that a shotty marine would have no prob slaying wave after wave of skulks?
Oh and from my experience as a marine, I killed a fade with a total of four point blank shots from a lvl.3 shotty, maybe less. Having a fade blink in your face amid armory humping, you wouldn't stop to count the shots.
i own LA/SG shotgun marines and even pairs/trios all the time as a fade or lerk (gotta keep moving with blink as fade, gotta keep distance and spore/spike at the same time as a lerk, know when to retreat as either, you can always come back), and even as a gorge if you keep to at least medium distance and can aim with spit worth a damn, you can easily kill a single LA/SG marine, or even two if they're stupid and dont charge you. i think basic marines take 4 spits to kill, if you get good at aiming (most marines dont even make the effort to dodge gorgespit) you can take them down in no time flat, something most marines dont expect at all <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> against marines with level 3 weapons/armor you'll have a tougher time though.
also, no matter what gun the marine has, even if he has a oneshot onekill ubergatling deathray-o-matic, you can still kill him before he ever sees you. perfect your ambush tactics. hit from the side, from behind, or from above, do it silently (get silence or use walk until you attack), chompeh...chompeh...chompeh, enjoy the rfk. dont let them see or hear you until you've got the first bite in, and learn to make your bites count. if they have MT, you'll just have to pick a spot that marines are likely to pass, stop, stand still, wait, and ambush. alternatively you can go in the range of a sensory chamber if you have one.
this thread should have died as soon as coil said this, but people still think their $.02 matters when this has been reiterated.
Anybody knows brains owns brawn. but as you can see, a few don't have the brains. (NO FLAME INTENDED)
Arms Lab ~ 25-40 (depends on version)
Weapon 1 ~ 20-30
Weapon 2 ~ 30-40
Weapon 3 ~ 40-60
One SG 10 res
Now adding all those res up we get a MINIMUM of 25+20+30+40+10= 125.
Please tell me why a SG should not take a 54 res fade down in one shot (assuming it is possible)? I will grant you the weapons upgrades ARE spread out over all weapons, but even distributing the res as it is on the alien team that is still a substantial sum.
As for finding out the damage, there is a mod out there that shows the damage you do to each structure and player, get your local server to laod it and you can easily find out the damage.
Onos (100 res) can kill a marine (o res) in two shots no prob, and can go on a killing spree in your own base.
Shotgun will own skulks as long as the user can aim. Their disadvantage is that it has an effective range of half a foot, so a lerk would be the logical counter.
I really don't see the point in these 'Marine weapon/tool X is overpowered' Everything on the marines has a disadvantage with being able to use it, i.e. took lots of res in order to have access, has crap range/accuracy, long reload, etc.
The range on shotguns isn't that bad. You can't snipe a Lerk from across Eclipse Command, but most aliens are melee based, so they come to you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...MINIMUM... 125<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to do that, at least count the cost of the upgrades on the Fade (I know you can go Fade at one hive, but the example Fade is 54 res, or 2 evolutions).
3 Movement chambers: 30 res
3 Defense chambers: 30 res
1 Hive: 35 res
1 Standard Fade chassis: 50 res
1 Movement evolution: 2 res
1 Defense evolution: 2 res
30+30+35+50+2+2=<b>149</b>
Hey, how about that? I didn't even count the Gorge needed to build all that stuff, although it's unlikely a single Gorge would do all of that.
I doubt that would stop people from comparing them.