Combined Arms
Salty_Justice
Join Date: 2003-08-23 Member: 20101Members
Join Date: 2003-08-23 Member: 20101Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Why is it so rare?</div> One thing that I'm sick and tired of is commanders using uniform weapons againt aliens who change types every time they die. HMGs sure are useful is one or two different situations:
Onos with Carapace Charge:
HMGs deal lots of damage and get the onos to die in record time, and are effective even while the onos is far away.
VS Fades:
HMGs kill the fade usually before they can run and regenerate
Shotguns have their own uses, such as anti-skulk(close) anti-onos(close) anti-fade(close). Anyone can tell that a big bulging mass of shotgun-marines can tear an onos apart at close range, but what happens when a lerk sits there and pot shoots you from clear across the room? Sadly, the Shotgunners will get wrecked because all that splash is useless at long range.
Essentially, a big mass of marines with all of the same weapons will get killed by only a few "opposites" (Lerk beats shotgun, Onos beats HMG, etc) so that the team gets decimated. So we're stuck here, where the comm techs up, lvl 3 guns n armour, gets HA/HMG and the onos just devours his marines. Likewise if you get lots of shotgunners they get killed by a few lerks.
The trick is to get a couple shotguns, a couple HMGs, and at least one GL. That's the way to go. Get LMG/JP guys too. If every marine on your team is particularly effective against one type of alien, then the alien you aren't good against will kill you, so get good against all aliens,
I was comming today (doesn't that beat all?) and I did the usual, Lvl 3 guns/armour, upgrades, Heavies. Gave 2/10 guys HMG, 2/10 Shotguns, 2/10 Gls. This leaves 3 marines left (I'm the comm) so I give one of the a Jetpack. What this group did was (in a remarkably teamwork type way) decimate everything the aliens threw at them. Essentially one Onos barged in and was shot to pieces at long range, moved in close, and got shot by shotgunners. Lerks had to deal with constant grenade hits and HMG bullets (which are a lot more accurate for some reason than in 1.04), skulks couldn't handle the shotgun shells, Fades had the same problems as Onos, and Gorges were as worthless as they're supposed to be in combat.
The Bizarro thing was, even though the aliens had mixed units, they weren't AS STRONG as the mixed marines were, simply because the mixed marines had all the bases covered. Lvl 3 guns simply made it easier, they probobly could have handled anything at this point regardless of gun levels. Take this as a lesson comms, MIXED WEAPONS ARE FAR MORE EFFECTIVE THAN UNIFORM WEAPONS. Lots of one gun are great, but they don't last!
A 'possible' exception to this is the topic of HA or JP. I think HA has far more going for it that JP, since marines with extra health are better than faster marines. Single JP marines (regardless of weapon) can't take out anything except other units (like gorges, or onos) that are idolated and helpless, which is their special ability (extra mobility to catch aliens that are helpless). Besides, Heavies have one property that allows them to mass together: resistant to spores. Large numbers of heavies against two-hive aliens leaves the aliens with no way to damage all of them at once (though an onos stomp might help). Three hive aliens have acid rockets, but Fades aren't very tough and can't take focused fire from high level guns. Fades are more of a middle level enemy, not top of the line like HA. Of course, 3 hive aliens are in VERY good shape to combat large numbers of anything, it doesn't matter if it's mixed or massed.
If you didn't read the whole post (loser) then the gist of it is that comms need to practice giving out all of the different weapons in small numbers.
Onos with Carapace Charge:
HMGs deal lots of damage and get the onos to die in record time, and are effective even while the onos is far away.
VS Fades:
HMGs kill the fade usually before they can run and regenerate
Shotguns have their own uses, such as anti-skulk(close) anti-onos(close) anti-fade(close). Anyone can tell that a big bulging mass of shotgun-marines can tear an onos apart at close range, but what happens when a lerk sits there and pot shoots you from clear across the room? Sadly, the Shotgunners will get wrecked because all that splash is useless at long range.
Essentially, a big mass of marines with all of the same weapons will get killed by only a few "opposites" (Lerk beats shotgun, Onos beats HMG, etc) so that the team gets decimated. So we're stuck here, where the comm techs up, lvl 3 guns n armour, gets HA/HMG and the onos just devours his marines. Likewise if you get lots of shotgunners they get killed by a few lerks.
The trick is to get a couple shotguns, a couple HMGs, and at least one GL. That's the way to go. Get LMG/JP guys too. If every marine on your team is particularly effective against one type of alien, then the alien you aren't good against will kill you, so get good against all aliens,
I was comming today (doesn't that beat all?) and I did the usual, Lvl 3 guns/armour, upgrades, Heavies. Gave 2/10 guys HMG, 2/10 Shotguns, 2/10 Gls. This leaves 3 marines left (I'm the comm) so I give one of the a Jetpack. What this group did was (in a remarkably teamwork type way) decimate everything the aliens threw at them. Essentially one Onos barged in and was shot to pieces at long range, moved in close, and got shot by shotgunners. Lerks had to deal with constant grenade hits and HMG bullets (which are a lot more accurate for some reason than in 1.04), skulks couldn't handle the shotgun shells, Fades had the same problems as Onos, and Gorges were as worthless as they're supposed to be in combat.
The Bizarro thing was, even though the aliens had mixed units, they weren't AS STRONG as the mixed marines were, simply because the mixed marines had all the bases covered. Lvl 3 guns simply made it easier, they probobly could have handled anything at this point regardless of gun levels. Take this as a lesson comms, MIXED WEAPONS ARE FAR MORE EFFECTIVE THAN UNIFORM WEAPONS. Lots of one gun are great, but they don't last!
A 'possible' exception to this is the topic of HA or JP. I think HA has far more going for it that JP, since marines with extra health are better than faster marines. Single JP marines (regardless of weapon) can't take out anything except other units (like gorges, or onos) that are idolated and helpless, which is their special ability (extra mobility to catch aliens that are helpless). Besides, Heavies have one property that allows them to mass together: resistant to spores. Large numbers of heavies against two-hive aliens leaves the aliens with no way to damage all of them at once (though an onos stomp might help). Three hive aliens have acid rockets, but Fades aren't very tough and can't take focused fire from high level guns. Fades are more of a middle level enemy, not top of the line like HA. Of course, 3 hive aliens are in VERY good shape to combat large numbers of anything, it doesn't matter if it's mixed or massed.
If you didn't read the whole post (loser) then the gist of it is that comms need to practice giving out all of the different weapons in small numbers.
Comments
the comm was only given out Shotguns, Shot a spore, people walk out of the room, I sniped them with spike.... Killed like 4-5 in a row because they couldn't hit me for crap. (I know they should have taken there pistol, I ain't no newb <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
But Mixed arms helps alot against Aliens.
i believe it is the teamleader besides the Comm that keep reminding
what the comm needs to give or build. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
Teamwork is still a somewhat foreign concept to some players, and thus dropping an HMG, GL, and 3 shotties and telling 5 guys to go to waypoint could give a less than desirable result.
Once it catches on, kharaa will need to learn their own version in order to keep up, as marine combined arms flattens incoherent alien attack.
People don't know what combined arms are yet. All they do is go 'OMG! HMG is teh pwnzorz11!!111oneoneeleven1!' because it's a big freakin gun.
Sorry, what does that mean :-$
Combined arms is not just the best way to win, its often the only way to win.
Aliens tend to win, in part due to their variety of units that you find in every game.
You will see skulks/fade/gorge/lerk/onos groups all the time, but how often do you see anything more advanced than the typical LMG/SG squad? And how often do you hear "Comm, we need to get a GL for this", or "Comm, we need to seige here"...<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Silly marines.
I don't see any nowadays. People lost their favorite framerate h4x and hive-killing machinegun. What they forgot is that the JP HMG is still uber.
Try to tech to JP when the onos are around , instead of teching to HA.
JP shotgun = good against res , OCs , hive and skulks , average against lerks and others. JP HMG = onos ownage.
To exploit the JP HMG to its true potential , you have to use a containment strategy. Block the ways to a hive at JP-friendly spots (rafters , high ceiling) and a few skilled marines can kill skulk over skulk ad infinitum. There's nothing the aliens can do to escape. At level 2-3 the fades are shredded anyway. Skulk's lifespan is no longer than a few microseconds. Lerks can't spam spores without exposing themselves to HMG fire. Onos can't reach jetpackers.
Besides , the HMG still works against hives. It just takes a while longer , so don't be afraid to shoot the hive with it if there are no shotguns nearby.
For clanning, it's a different. People know each other, people care for each other, and people want to WIN. And they are disiplined enough to know how. And as we know, Teamwork is about 80% of the Marines.
Makes you wonder if NS can ever be truly balanced.
Its really not a game problem so much as a people problem. And people are not going to change. The best bet is to simple get a server filled up with only regulars and intelligent people. Its hard, but after a long enough time in the community you can do it.
I will have a new server comming fairly soon and I intend to only deal with people that are there to play the game as its supposed to be played.
Being nice and letting anyone who wants to, play on my server has made me HATE NS at times. I can no longer take the lack of teamwork as marines OR aliens. However, I have plans to remedy that in the near future.
I think the thing here is that NS is made for teamplay, and without teamwork its over. Which, when you think about it, thats a good thing. Its just hard to attain with most public players.
Being of the same opinion, and having read a growing amount of posts stating the same, I just do agree with that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And people are not going to change<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just hope people will. Otherwise, it would be purely useless to play on pubs, I should rather instead already try to get in a clan.
Of course, we can't get people to change by forcing them to, but they might change all by themselves, if they see an interest in changing.
Yet, something that makes them willing to leave their stand-alone gameplay for a better teamplay has to be found...
People don't know what combined arms are yet. All they do is go 'OMG! HMG is teh pwnzorz11!!111oneoneeleven1!' because it's a big freakin gun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea man.
Single strategy and single mentality don't work: The idea has always been flexability in as many aspects as possible. Tactics, weapons, and even the armor/JP decision, which sometimes is a decision for both. (mixed squads have an incredible survive rate if they are good: JPers can run from and chase down onos, spot for a siege quickly, and move in and out for intelligence reports, and get off quick shots and retreat. The HAs provide solid firepower for just about everything, and of course, don't forget welderboy =)