Decompiling Ns Maps ?
Draekus
Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16158Members
Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16158Members
<div class="IPBDescription">anyone can decompile NS bsp?</div> I was planning to try mapping for NS for a while, and wanted to decompile some community maps as an example, but the decompilers (debsp and winbsp) crash every time I use them with NS maps.
Anybody knows whats the problem, and what to do with it ??
here is the log file:
<span style='color:gray'>
BSPC version 2.1h, May 6 2001 16:15:03 by Mr Elusive
bsp2map: D:\SIERRA\Half-Life\ns\maps\ns_bast.bsp to ns_bast.map
allocated 12 MB and 642 KB and 938 bytes of BSP memory
-- HL_LoadMapFromBSP --
brush size: -2848,-3488,-1416 to 2400, 3936, 2630
HL_SplitBrush: only on back
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
HL_SplitBrush: tiny volume after clip
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
HL_SplitBrush: tiny volume after clip
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
brush 192: no real texture splitbrush 217: no real texture splitbrush 219: no real texture splitbrush 220: no real texture splitbrush 226: no real texture split
</span>
Please help!
Well, as first: I didn't say that I'm not a noob when it goes about hl mapping, and didn't think that looking on someones map a bit closer is such a bad thing. It wouldn't help anyway if the decompiler makes those brushes filling the void, becouse this was the thing that troubled me most( I just needed diffrent compiler tools), and I defenetly WOULD NOT PLAGIATE anything.
Well, I think I won't be playing with a decompiler anymore,
Shish! you guys have no mercy you know;
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anybody knows whats the problem, and what to do with it ??
here is the log file:
<span style='color:gray'>
BSPC version 2.1h, May 6 2001 16:15:03 by Mr Elusive
bsp2map: D:\SIERRA\Half-Life\ns\maps\ns_bast.bsp to ns_bast.map
allocated 12 MB and 642 KB and 938 bytes of BSP memory
-- HL_LoadMapFromBSP --
brush size: -2848,-3488,-1416 to 2400, 3936, 2630
HL_SplitBrush: only on back
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
HL_SplitBrush: tiny volume after clip
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
HL_SplitBrush: tiny volume after clip
HL_CreateBrushes_r: WARNING node not splitting brush
brush 192: no real texture splitbrush 217: no real texture splitbrush 219: no real texture splitbrush 220: no real texture splitbrush 226: no real texture split
</span>
Please help!
Well, as first: I didn't say that I'm not a noob when it goes about hl mapping, and didn't think that looking on someones map a bit closer is such a bad thing. It wouldn't help anyway if the decompiler makes those brushes filling the void, becouse this was the thing that troubled me most( I just needed diffrent compiler tools), and I defenetly WOULD NOT PLAGIATE anything.
Well, I think I won't be playing with a decompiler anymore,
Shish! you guys have no mercy you know;
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Prepare for thread lockdown!
On the one hand it opens the window for plagiarists, but on the other it allows new mappers to get an idea on how effects are achieved and how things work.
It would also make the ressurection of nancy a less painful process.
True tools of satan would only cause death misery and destruction...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not in the least, all decompilers do is create a giant bounding box around the playable area of a map, and fill the void of the bounding box area with brushes based on where they were split during the compile. Compile tools split a brush face in many ways, and will <i>never</i> reflect how a mapper laid out his origional brushwork. Also, considering that the Ready Room serves as a second playable area, I beleive the decompiling tools will crash when trying to incorporate this. Even if they do decompile an entire map, you will have a (bounding) Box nearly as large as the VHE grid, full of sloppy brushes running from end to end. Not to mention misaligned Textures, broken entities, and in the case of complex geometry, the decompiler will often return completely undesireable and unusable results.
Decompiling is the absolute dumbest way to learn how to map, because you learn nothing of the actual building process.
Do yourself a favor and look for tutorials, there is one out there for just about anything you want to do, and will teach you to learn how to do things yourself productively...allowing you to tackle problems on your own. Also, letting you experiment with your own ideas, rather than the ideas of others. Most tutorials come with sample RMFs so you can actually examine brushwork and entities the way the mapper actually laid them out.
2nd, decompilers are evil.
Drop it.
You people are soc losed off to anyone new or a new idea for that matter it's pretty sickening. Get over yourselves.
~ DarkATi
<snip>
I think you all or the most of you have your heads so far up your own crevus hole that you can't see broad daylight.
<snip>
Get over yourselves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're on the debate team, aren't you? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Decompilation and other forms of reverse engineering don't provide as much information as a simple tutorial map can because information is lost during the compile. If you want to see how entities are tied together, why not just do what confused! mentioned above and load the BSP in Quark?
Quark gives you the same information about object properties without the broken mess of reconstructed brushes that decompilation creates--the brushes that a decompiler generates aren't even close to the originals (and can't be since compilers throw out most of the information in the map files during optimization), so there's nothing to gain by looking at them. If you want the dimensions of a particular architectural feature, Quark's BSP loader will show that, too.
You people are soc losed off to anyone new or a new idea for that matter it's pretty sickening. Get over yourselves.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah decompiling is a new idea...
Your word is not final, its ironic that <i>you</i> tell anyone else to get over themselves, when you are obviously full of yourself.
As is the way with people who cop attitudes over small issues. And the bullies comments?...wth is wrong with you? Chill out.
Truth is, decompiling doesnt show anyone how to construct anything...and thats what mapping is all about.
Decompilers do not decompile a map in anywhere near the way they were made...I honestly do not beleive it can teach you anything.
Im not oppsed to it or think its evil...hell, if it returned even somewhat usefull results then I would use it...but it doesnt.
Telling someone they can learn anything by this process is sabotage. Perhaps opening a BSP in Quark is usefull, I havent tried it, but decompiling to Worldcraft/Hammer is the most useless process ever.
Just to reiterate, Decompiling isnt wrong...its just completely useless.
I know this had been said before, but hey, i had to provide a link <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Creating a map might not cost the author any money, but there is a huge time investment (hundreds and hundreds of hours). That sort of time suck requires sacrifices on the part of the author--they have chosen to spend the time working on a hobby, and it's only natural to value the result of the hobby when the author is finished--after all, they chose to make a map over spending the time somewhere else.
If your only concern is monetary value, you could also think of it as an opportunity cost. If I flipped burgers instead of designing a single level for NS that matched the quality of the official release, I'd earn $4,500 pre-tax at the local In'N'Out restaurant here in northern California -- and there are much more valuable ways to spend time than flipping burgers.
Alternately, if you're a student, making a map is equivalent in duration to taking 6 hours of college courses assuming 2:1 coursework to classroom time.
Many amateur mappers hope that all of this work will result in a solid portfolio for a future career. If someone rips off all of that work and passes off the map as their own, the original author may never be credited, and it's reasonable to be worried that low quality knock-offs of your work will make it less likely for your talent to lead to a job offer.
EDIT: spelling
now i gotta get back to my job <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> --> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> so i can pay for this college tuition <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> so i can get a job...
(wait dont i already have a job) its a vicious circle <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://tenfourmaps.telefragged.com/php/review.php?gameid=hl&levid=spe' target='_blank'>I know</a>.
If knock-off copies of Someplace Else were wandering the Internet, what would I do?
I'd be pretty impressed. I'd rather the RMF was out there, being of some benefit to someone than mouldering on my hard disk. If someone learns from it, or even builds something new, I'd be happy. If someone tries passing it off as their own work? They'll look foolish enough when they're found out.
Would this work with a Natural Selection map, where the map isn't necessarily finished when first released? Who knows. But if I ever get round to finishing ns_sugarlump or ns_minotaur, I'm going to find out. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->