Are Any Of The Ns Map Textures New?
WarpZone
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6264Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6264Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Most of them are from Quake3 packs...</div> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can I use the NS textures, technology, game world, concept art or anything else for any purpose other then Natural Selection?
No. The team has worked very hard to create the NS universe. Please don't e-mail or post asking to use our textures, models or technology for other projects. You can, however, use any artwork from NS for an NS fansite, or NS community resource. You may never use anything from NS to make money, nor may you ever state or imply that any NS assets were made by anyone other then the NS team. If in doubt, e-mail flayra@overmind.org before using anything. Any inappropriate use of any NS content will be pursued aggressively. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever since before the release, looking at screenshots, I was amazed by NS's beautiful maps. I was very disapointed when I read the above statement in the NS official FAQ, since I've often thought about making a futuristic single-player HL mod. However, as a fequent visitor to <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/wadfather/' target='_blank'>The Wadfather</a> (read: resident texture leech,) I couldn't help but notice that some of my favorite NS textures actually come from old Quake3 packs.
The first ones I noticed were the ones from the Majestic space station texture pack, since I was particularly captivated by their usage in the singleplayer map Someplace Else. As time went on, and I grew more familiar with NS's texture set and examined my various wads more closely, I began to notice that more and more of them were in fact, public domain, or noticibly modified from public domain textures. Often times, only one or two textures out of any given wad were used. It's getting to the point where there are only a few textures left in NS that I would particularly want to use in a non-ns project and that I can't just lift from a Q3 pack somewhere.
Well, anyway, thanks for the warning. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
No. The team has worked very hard to create the NS universe. Please don't e-mail or post asking to use our textures, models or technology for other projects. You can, however, use any artwork from NS for an NS fansite, or NS community resource. You may never use anything from NS to make money, nor may you ever state or imply that any NS assets were made by anyone other then the NS team. If in doubt, e-mail flayra@overmind.org before using anything. Any inappropriate use of any NS content will be pursued aggressively. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever since before the release, looking at screenshots, I was amazed by NS's beautiful maps. I was very disapointed when I read the above statement in the NS official FAQ, since I've often thought about making a futuristic single-player HL mod. However, as a fequent visitor to <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/wadfather/' target='_blank'>The Wadfather</a> (read: resident texture leech,) I couldn't help but notice that some of my favorite NS textures actually come from old Quake3 packs.
The first ones I noticed were the ones from the Majestic space station texture pack, since I was particularly captivated by their usage in the singleplayer map Someplace Else. As time went on, and I grew more familiar with NS's texture set and examined my various wads more closely, I began to notice that more and more of them were in fact, public domain, or noticibly modified from public domain textures. Often times, only one or two textures out of any given wad were used. It's getting to the point where there are only a few textures left in NS that I would particularly want to use in a non-ns project and that I can't just lift from a Q3 pack somewhere.
Well, anyway, thanks for the warning. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
And this is what you are doing.
And this is what you are doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well he isn't IMPLYING anything, hes just stating he found some textures on a free publically available texture repository...Whats wrong with that?
Sorry if the title of this post made it sound like I was accusing the NS team of plagarism or anything. That was never my intention. I just wanted to know which textures in particular, if any, were created solely by the NS team, so I can stop hunting for them online?
The ONLY exception to this being a small handful of about 5 textures created by Shaderlab which were mistakingly included in the main wad due to their use by Relic in his ns_Bast map. And 1 Quake 3 texture which found it's way in because Flayra used it in one of his test maps in the very beginning of development before the wad had been created. That has since been redone by a community member to resemble the original, because a lot of people had included it in their maps and it featured prominantly in some.
I can't speak for wads that come with individual maps, since there are a lot of mappers in the community who have included non NS textures from various public domain sources (though very few official maps). But as far as the original official NS wad goes, they are all original creations (with the already noted excpetions listed above).
Please feel free to show examples from the NS wad that you feel were taken from other sources.
And NS also blatantly takes sounds from AvP. The whole premise/atmosphere is decidedly ripped from other popular franchises, e.g Alien films, StarCraft.
Yet they want to keep all their "original" work as theirs alone. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The ONLY exception to this being a small handful ...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol nice one
And NS also blatantly takes sounds from AvP. The whole premise/atmosphere is decidedly ripped from other popular franchises, e.g Alien films, StarCraft.
Yet they want to keep all their "original" work as theirs alone. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to hear them. The only sound in NS I've heard in starcraft was a critter sound, the chuckle. The chuckle comes from a free sound thingy somewhere and blizzard happend to use the same one. So next time lets have some proof. I play AVP, AVP2, SC, and NS, no "stolen" anything I've noticed. Ah yes 1 more thing. If you think their stealing something because its Sci-Fi, thats a genre...alot of people use Sci-fi <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
All sounds withing NS are either from the NS team themselves, or from licensed commercial sound packs (which are <b>also</b> used by other games. Just because 2 games have the same sound, doesnt mean they have been stolen, they have most likely been bought from the same source. Hell, I even heard an NS sound in one of the Batman cartoons recently (unless my ears are playing tricks on me).
Do not make accusations without researching first.
And no, doing sci-fi isn't stealing.. but if you can't tell this game takes great liberties in lifting ideas out of other franchises which either set the standard or perfected it, you're simply in denial.
My point is not that NS is bad, but that it seems unfair for them to say you can't use their stuff when their entire game is built around a system which people license out freely to anyone who wants it.
What are they afraid of?.. So what if I use a cool texture from NS in some obscure CS map? (Hypothetical, mind you). No one is out for direct profit (donations notwithstanding). This is just counter-productive to a good community built largely around free content. IMO
Besides, according to their own logic, taking a texture, or anything, and slightly modifying it is perfectly acceptable. So feel free to change the shade of a few pixels and call it your own, then patent it, copyright it, make it your trademark, and lock it in a safe, underground. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And no, doing sci-fi isn't stealing.. but if you can't tell this game takes great liberties in lifting ideas out of other franchises which either set the standard or perfected it, you're simply in denial.
My point is not that NS is bad, but that it seems unfair for them to say you can't use their stuff when their entire game is built around a system which people license out freely to anyone who wants it.
What are they afraid of?.. So what if I use a cool texture from NS in some obscure CS map? (Hypothetical, mind you). No one is out for direct profit (donations notwithstanding). This is just counter-productive to a good community built largely around free content. IMO
Besides, according to their own logic, taking a texture, or anything, and slightly modifying it is perfectly acceptable. So feel free to change the shade of a few pixels and call it your own, then patent it, copyright it, make it your trademark, and lock it in a safe, underground. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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And NS also blatantly takes sounds from AvP. The whole premise/atmosphere is decidedly ripped from other popular franchises, e.g Alien films, StarCraft.
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Yeah, yeah you did.
They were INFLUENCED by other sci-fi games and movies, which helped them create their own UNIQUE atmosphere. Nobody can say that the ALIENS movies were totally original, they were influenced by something, too.
NS is actually a MOD of a publically licensed engine, of a licensed engine. (Half-Life Engine = Modified Quake I Engine) However, the companies CHOSE to license it out. The NS team hasn't chosen to license their creations for others to use.
That's not true. YOU need to learn how to read, my friend. Squeal Like a Pig said, specifically, that the only reason non-original textures were included was because certain maps used them and the texture artist didn't know they were from somewhere else. They have since been redone to look SIMILAR (they didn't just change a few pixels and call it their own) to the other ones.
[Edit] Changed "Quake II" to "Quake I". Thanks, Stupid_Fool!
And no, doing sci-fi isn't stealing.. but if you can't tell this game takes great liberties in lifting ideas out of other franchises which either set the standard or perfected it, you're simply in denial.
My point is not that NS is bad, but that it seems unfair for them to say you can't use their stuff when their entire game is built around a system which people license out freely to anyone who wants it.
What are they afraid of?.. So what if I use a cool texture from NS in some obscure CS map? (Hypothetical, mind you). No one is out for direct profit (donations notwithstanding). This is just counter-productive to a good community built largely around free content. IMO
Besides, according to their own logic, taking a texture, or anything, and slightly modifying it is perfectly acceptable. So feel free to change the shade of a few pixels and call it your own, then patent it, copyright it, make it your trademark, and lock it in a safe, underground. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
typicalskeleton <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And NS also blatantly takes sounds from AvP. The whole premise/atmosphere is decidedly ripped from other popular franchises, e.g Alien films, StarCraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then we have
typicalskeleton<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never said anything came directly from SC, so learn to read. Some of the sounds definitely seem to be from AVP.
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Hmmm....ripped at first, now just "maybe borrowed"?
The reason why the licence is there is b/c this is some ones WORK, are you saying that Tool should let every one use their music simply b/c they use guitars? no, your argument is sorta (read REALY) weak
watch as this thread gets locked <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And you can't directly rip an atmosphere(i.e, there is no "atmosphere.mdl" file to take, is what I mean), so no it's not directly ripped. But obviously (and admittedly) lifted.
And no, I don't think Tool should let people use their for-profit, original work for free. Difference is, textures were taken for NS, and modified, then claimed to be original (or atleast, reserved for NS only). The same is obviously done with sounds.
If you think the NS sound guy did EVERY sound from scratch.. you're dreaming, my friend.
If Tool's music was free, and the instruments provided by a much bigger, professional developer, and if Tool admittedly took samples from other songs, modified them, then used them... the answer is yes, I would expect Tool to do the same in return, and allow their music to be sampled, modified, and then re-used.
Your analogy is straight out of topic, and makes no sense.
Come up with a better rebuttal before you attempt to call my argument "REALY" weak.
WHAT are you talking about? Whose logic? Because one texture was created by a community member to resemble a Quake 3 texture to help? Pardon me if I feel personally insulted by these accusations of stealing and/or modifying existing textures from other sources, but I have spent the last few years creating models, map textures, and player model textures COMPLETELY FROM SCRATCH! I thought I stated pretty clearly that all of the textures I created for the "OFFICIAL" NS wad were created solely by yours truly, with no outside sources used. The few Shaderlab textures were placed in there by mistake, but if you bothered to check around we have always been quite vocal about making sure people realized that those were not ours, but merely used in 1 map after the mapper obtained permission from the texture artist.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are they afraid of?.. So what if I use a cool texture from NS in some obscure CS map?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have worked hard to establish a distinctive look and feel to NS. Yes we have been influenced by other games, movies, books, etc. in the genre. Anyone who has created anything would be lying if they said they weren't in some part influenced by something made in the past. However, I believe we have created a game world which retains it's own style. One glance at an NS map and you know what game it came from. This is, in large part due to the textures used. If 20 other mods decide to start using NS textures in all their maps, it dilutes the visual NS style that we strived to create. And yes, it could harm the potential marketability of this game, if a lot of NS specific materials are used in a lot of non NS related places.
As far as the sounds go, I thought Fam stated the situation quite clearly. There are NO sounds used in NS that were taken from other games. Yes, a fair amount of them came from a sound library which Flayra spent thousands of dollars that he could barely afford, to purchase. Many game companies have purchased the same sound package, so there is a distinct probability that you may hear a sound in NS that was also used elsewhere in another game, or movie, or commercial.
Holy crap this thread is making me angry due to the sheer audacity of people to feel so high and mighty about something they have absolutely no factual information about.
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This is a blatant, all out, lie. I know I just stated this in my last post, but I'm going to say it one more time for the hearing impaired.
No textures from other sources were used or modified in any way. The Shaderlab textures were never claimed by the dev team to be created by us, and in fact we went to great lenghts to state the opposite. Our statement about NS textures being reserved solely for the use of NS related projects is exactly what it sounds like. "NS textures" = Textures created soley for the Natural Selection mod. The Shaderlab textures were not created for NS by NS developers, thus they do not fit under this category. We do not claim them to be ours, thus we do not prohibit anyone from using them.
But.. the entire NS engine is a modified one, obviously. Goes all the way back to Q2.
My point is not to insult NS's style, or anything of that sort. I've said all along that I don't think NS is bad at all, I'm just disappointed that people can't use some of the NS features, when NS itself is built on top of someone else's work, and wouldn't neccesarily exist (not at this time, anyway) if that particular somone (or company, anyway) hadn't let others use their work for free.
I realize you guys have put a lot of work into the game, and I think it's an awesome game. It's just too bad, to me, that you won't allow people to tap into some of your work, as you've tapped into the work of others.
That's all that I'm saying.
Let me tell you my friend that whatever the NS team wishes to keep to themselves they have every right to and not one person has the right to complain. Saying that they should release the NS wad for public use that is not NS related and/or sold to the public is just about the dumbest thing you could say to a developer. Let us see what would happen if everyone did what you say.
Do you think other HL mods would allow you to do this kind of thing? Its like asking the dev team to release their source code to the public "because they made it using the free HL SDK and everyone has the right to it now". Now, lets just say for the sake of argument that NS released it's source code to the public, what is to stop other people from modifying a line of code, adding in an AWP and some skymasks and calling it "Counter-Selection"? Both mods are made using a free sdk available to everyone, so who is to stop this person from just doing this and making some money out of it? On that note, why should they release their content as free to the public, what if they wanted to go retail?
There is no argument here, you just about came into their house, took their TV and then you tried to reason it by saying "Sorry, the information on how to make TV's is public domain so that means i can take this TV and turn it into a computer for me" (which can be done btw)
But yes, fool is right, HL is based on a heavily modified Quake1 engine (which explains why it is uber awesome)
They chose not to, and rightly. You see those major big companies (Sierra) that made Half-Life were rolling in money, and so, realeasing the engine was just another valve (heh i made a pun) to aquire capital: Through the growing Mod industry. Community builds it, Sierra markets and makes a bundle more of money. The Dev team is worried that releasing everything would dampen their chances for NS to REALLY pay off. I think that is entirely reasonable, and YOU have no right to say otherwise.
*edit*jeebus i cannot spell :|
We're done here.