Sardines In A Can
Skyfall
Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19765Members
Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19765Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Map-Specific Strat for ns_bast</div> I've played on ns_bast a bunch, and lost on ns_bast a bit too many times to count. The marines always go for the double-node at Atmospheric (hey, I'm not arguing; it means that if we grab it, we can push and scarf Feedwater), but get locked into their base on the other side. It's a painful thing to be a marine taking a ride on the revolving door, only to see a line of offense chambers waiting to turn me into a artificial porcupine.
The way I see it, the marine spawn is so easily defensible, yet so easily containable, that most losing games end with the marines locked in their little tin like sardines, unable to go down the massive elevator (getting ambushed as they go down) or through the revolving door (just a bad idea, all around); meanwhile, skulks are bounding through the vent in the ceiling (which can never be truly closed, even with a welder), keeping the pressure on the marines. Frankly, it's not a situation from which the marine team has a hope of recovering.
Atmospheric Processing is really good, but not enough to win the game by itself. But what if you add <b>Main Aft Junction?</b>
All main passage in or out of Engine Room goes through Main Aft Junction; plus, most of the attacks from Refinery will go through there. Marines who own Main Aft Junction will own both sides of the Dreaded Unclosable Vent--including the side that will actually stay <i>shut</i> when welded. It's close to the Marine Spawn, and pretty reinforcable. Heck, if you stick a Phase Gate in Main Aft Junction, no marine ever has to use the Revolving Door of Doom again!
If the aliens start in Engine Room, they're screwed. The only intuitive escape from Engine Room that <i>doesn't</i> go through Main Aft Junction is the vent system that leads to . . . that's right . . . Atmospheric Processing. (Admittedly, aliens can sneak into and out of Engine Room through the vents in Tram Station, but it's ultimately the <i>marines</i> who control that passage, not the aliens. The switches to unlock that vent system are in Marine Spawn).
If the aliens start somewhere OTHER than Engine Room, the marines can stretch out and scarf the hive without much trouble--after all, the chokepoint's all the way up at Main Aft Junction, and the aliens have to break through <i>that</i> before they have a <i>hope</i> of assaulting their hive. Plus, Main Aft Junction is an excellent staging point for attacks on any location on the south side of the map.
So, here's the plan:
As soon as your starting buildings are finished, divide your marines into Squads 1 and 2. Squad 1 (your stronger squad) moves to Atmospheric Processing and blasts the bejeezus out of anything that tries to take it. The Marines don't build anything there yet; the point is to apply so much pressure to Atmospheric Processing that the Aliens don't get it either.
Meanwhile, Squad 2 moves through the Revolving Door (of Doom) and locks down Main Aft Junction with so much force it isn't even funny: turrets, more turrets, an electrified turret factory and/or resource node . . . later in the game, a Phase Gate, Seige Turrets, and even an <i>Observatory of its very own</i>. (For that matter, one should have observatories at all one's major bases, to prevent Sensory cheese).
As soon as it looks like Main Aft Junction is yours, start devoting your attention to Squad 1, and lock down Atmospheric Processing with the determination and resolve that most Commanders dedicate to a double-node spot. NOW you own the map; feel free to pass out the shotguns and relax.
From here, you've got several options. If the aliens are in Engine Room, your job is now to contain them there as brutally as possible; the game will most likely be over soon, and you may even have a chance to grab all the resource nodes on the rest of the map with ease. If the aliens are in Feedwater or Refinery, have Squad 2 step back and grab the node at Engine Room, then start preparing for an offensive. It has been my experience that 4-5 resource nodes is all the infrastructure the Marines need to comfortably end the game . . . start teching to your more advanced weapons and/or siege, and start moving.
Squad 1, after owning Atmospheric Processing, can advance on Feedwater and claim or attack it; Squad 2 can either attack Refinery, or circle around to Tram Station so that the Marines can hit Feedwater from two sides. Either way, "gg" should be arriving shortly.
As a newbie commander, I've tried this strategy once and won handily (admittedly against reasonably inexperienced aliens). I'd like to see what a more experienced commander can do with this strategy; I think it's the key to making ns_bast work <i>for</i> the Commander, not against him.
The way I see it, the marine spawn is so easily defensible, yet so easily containable, that most losing games end with the marines locked in their little tin like sardines, unable to go down the massive elevator (getting ambushed as they go down) or through the revolving door (just a bad idea, all around); meanwhile, skulks are bounding through the vent in the ceiling (which can never be truly closed, even with a welder), keeping the pressure on the marines. Frankly, it's not a situation from which the marine team has a hope of recovering.
Atmospheric Processing is really good, but not enough to win the game by itself. But what if you add <b>Main Aft Junction?</b>
All main passage in or out of Engine Room goes through Main Aft Junction; plus, most of the attacks from Refinery will go through there. Marines who own Main Aft Junction will own both sides of the Dreaded Unclosable Vent--including the side that will actually stay <i>shut</i> when welded. It's close to the Marine Spawn, and pretty reinforcable. Heck, if you stick a Phase Gate in Main Aft Junction, no marine ever has to use the Revolving Door of Doom again!
If the aliens start in Engine Room, they're screwed. The only intuitive escape from Engine Room that <i>doesn't</i> go through Main Aft Junction is the vent system that leads to . . . that's right . . . Atmospheric Processing. (Admittedly, aliens can sneak into and out of Engine Room through the vents in Tram Station, but it's ultimately the <i>marines</i> who control that passage, not the aliens. The switches to unlock that vent system are in Marine Spawn).
If the aliens start somewhere OTHER than Engine Room, the marines can stretch out and scarf the hive without much trouble--after all, the chokepoint's all the way up at Main Aft Junction, and the aliens have to break through <i>that</i> before they have a <i>hope</i> of assaulting their hive. Plus, Main Aft Junction is an excellent staging point for attacks on any location on the south side of the map.
So, here's the plan:
As soon as your starting buildings are finished, divide your marines into Squads 1 and 2. Squad 1 (your stronger squad) moves to Atmospheric Processing and blasts the bejeezus out of anything that tries to take it. The Marines don't build anything there yet; the point is to apply so much pressure to Atmospheric Processing that the Aliens don't get it either.
Meanwhile, Squad 2 moves through the Revolving Door (of Doom) and locks down Main Aft Junction with so much force it isn't even funny: turrets, more turrets, an electrified turret factory and/or resource node . . . later in the game, a Phase Gate, Seige Turrets, and even an <i>Observatory of its very own</i>. (For that matter, one should have observatories at all one's major bases, to prevent Sensory cheese).
As soon as it looks like Main Aft Junction is yours, start devoting your attention to Squad 1, and lock down Atmospheric Processing with the determination and resolve that most Commanders dedicate to a double-node spot. NOW you own the map; feel free to pass out the shotguns and relax.
From here, you've got several options. If the aliens are in Engine Room, your job is now to contain them there as brutally as possible; the game will most likely be over soon, and you may even have a chance to grab all the resource nodes on the rest of the map with ease. If the aliens are in Feedwater or Refinery, have Squad 2 step back and grab the node at Engine Room, then start preparing for an offensive. It has been my experience that 4-5 resource nodes is all the infrastructure the Marines need to comfortably end the game . . . start teching to your more advanced weapons and/or siege, and start moving.
Squad 1, after owning Atmospheric Processing, can advance on Feedwater and claim or attack it; Squad 2 can either attack Refinery, or circle around to Tram Station so that the Marines can hit Feedwater from two sides. Either way, "gg" should be arriving shortly.
As a newbie commander, I've tried this strategy once and won handily (admittedly against reasonably inexperienced aliens). I'd like to see what a more experienced commander can do with this strategy; I think it's the key to making ns_bast work <i>for</i> the Commander, not against him.
Comments
The only problem with it I can see is that if the aliens can hold atmos, then they have feedwater, Refinery and all the res they will ever need to go with it. Also, maby instead of simply holding main aft, you could relocate there, its only costs a few res and gives a constant supply of walking turrets (rines). Also closing of some vents with mines might make things a little easier.
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~Jason
But yeah; relocating to Main Aft Junction certainly ensures that the aliens will <i>never</i> take it while the marines are still viable . . .
Just felt like adding that,because I am an avid alien player and know Bast's vent structure like the back of my hand....I've taken out Engine Room hive before with just a GL and a JP,thanks to the vent system of Bast,and the aliens had no clue where I was
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the comm chair circle does not reach out to main aft junction
if you are going to relocate to main aft, you'll have to relocate there with another comm chair
Locking down main aft is usually my first move on this map. (I’ve locked down engine enough times to realize the ineffectiveness of this compared to main aft. :-/ Even if the aliens do grab engine by sneaking in through a vent it is usually a simple matter to stage an assault from main aft and get it back.)
I do however, like to start grabbing nodes and hives in the area farthest away from the alien hive, so if the aliens had engine, I would probably grab feed water.
My strategy for winning what I call the "Slow marine advance of DOOM." (SMAD)
I start on one side of the map and slowly try to capture nodes and secure key areas.
(this was an old 1.04 plan)
I like ns_bast so I tried that plan a few times and found some problems. First off, main aft junction is <b>very</b> hard to hold. Your group of people going there will most likly not all go though the door (of doom) at the same time, which means if they hit a rush, the first guys gets swarmed, and the rest get ambushed. If you do manage to take it you will most likly not beable to move out from it. Skulks will keep rushing in, and if they go lerk and start using spores your medpack costs will skyrocket. Also, don't be suprised if a skulk goes through the vent in atmo to the hive, gorges, and builds a hive. If the aliens are desperate for the extra firepower the 3rd hive will give them, they will be willing to risk lossing 45 res.