Possible Reason For Marine Losses.
Operaman
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18211Members
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18211Members
I was reminiscing the other day about 1.04. Oh the good ol' days. I rembered the all to frequent Marine victories. That got me to thinking.
The 1.04 Marines were mostly winning because they knew what worked, they knew that JP/HMG worked, they knew HA welder trains are an effective end game. They had an almost sure fire way of winning, and really didn't need to use much strategy.
2.0 Marines don't know any sure fire end game strategies. They don't have a JP/HMG rush that they can rely on. And frankly, I haven't seen many commanders or marines who are willing to make up new stratagies, or simply improve them. Seems to me Marines and Aliens are playing a FPS-only, and doing that will only benefit the Aliens.
Two ways we can remedy this situation, either find our 2.0 JP/HMG rush, which will lead to another patch. Or build up our RTS finesse. Play some Starcraft/Warcraft any RTS that suits you, and go read up on your Art of War. Then you are playing a good FPS/RTS balance, which will benefit the Marines.
Well, I posted this because I hoped that at least one of you will read this and say, "Hey, I need to catch up on my RTS skill, so I can become a better commander." If just one person does that, the NS community will become that much better.
/edit Heh, guess thats what no sleep does to a person. Thanks Spazmatic
The 1.04 Marines were mostly winning because they knew what worked, they knew that JP/HMG worked, they knew HA welder trains are an effective end game. They had an almost sure fire way of winning, and really didn't need to use much strategy.
2.0 Marines don't know any sure fire end game strategies. They don't have a JP/HMG rush that they can rely on. And frankly, I haven't seen many commanders or marines who are willing to make up new stratagies, or simply improve them. Seems to me Marines and Aliens are playing a FPS-only, and doing that will only benefit the Aliens.
Two ways we can remedy this situation, either find our 2.0 JP/HMG rush, which will lead to another patch. Or build up our RTS finesse. Play some Starcraft/Warcraft any RTS that suits you, and go read up on your Art of War. Then you are playing a good FPS/RTS balance, which will benefit the Marines.
Well, I posted this because I hoped that at least one of you will read this and say, "Hey, I need to catch up on my RTS skill, so I can become a better commander." If just one person does that, the NS community will become that much better.
/edit Heh, guess thats what no sleep does to a person. Thanks Spazmatic
Comments
And, I disagree. I think commanders are inventing strategies like mad, which, while good in the long run, is going to give some growing pains. Fact is, in 1.04, marines KNEW what worked... Because there was only like three strats that were reliable! However, now, there is a huge variety, and every game you have to figure out what to do from the comm, you have to work together possibly doing something you've never done before, and people are reluctant. They know what they want, and they try to keep doing it, and it's hurting. Just today I puppet commed a 2v2 (soon 3v3) with a strategy I had used in the exact same situation a week ago... Only difference was, this time, my teammates were willing to try something off-the-wall, berserk, and not get sidetracked, and as a result, we won (against decent aliens, not stellar). However, the previous time, it failed horribly because guys kept shooting res towers, trying to go after hives, etc...
The point is, a lot of commanders are perfectly good RTS-wise now. They have their strats, they've read the forums, they worship every word that the vets say, etc... However, it's difficult to manage the players (who think they know better, or refuse to follow orders because it seems to weird to them, no matter how much explaining you do), and I think the best way to improve that is simply to play NS!
Oh, that, and a complete lack of strategy...
Shove 'em into a game with MonsE... He'll show up how you get those heavies down fast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe they need more communication, maybe more planning, and both those things come with using more RTS intensive training. Probably just my rambling, but we need to shape up if we are going to face up those aliens and show 'em what for!
Going from a 2 hive lockdown with 6 rts and HAs everywhere to fending off onos in a last stand at your base, becuase of nothing but gorges, is a real pain in the @#$...
I really REALLY hate how you can gorge up on a ledge or in a vent with regen and just bile rooms like holo, processing, powersilo, other key choke points and double node rooms into oblivion without ever having a single problem. Heck sometimes you don't even get hit (i know, i do it too).
Not only that, you don't even need a hiding spot, just build some dc and maybe one or two ocs in case some marines rush, and bile twice, heal, rinse, repeat, until the whole place is gone. I think bile bomb is just way too uber for it's own good nowadays...I'd be happy if web and bilebomb traded places...but everyone seems to think i'm crazy. I say take out those electrified rts with OCs, and leave bile bombs for hive3. (Before i go mad!)
That means bilebomb is the siege cannon equivalent,works wonders on those nasty turret farms <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And by the time you have 2 hives the marines could have already teched to tier 2 (boy I've played too much WC) meaning that bilebomb should be left in hive2,any competent amrines should know how to kill a gorge quickly.
As for marines losing....in my situation there's too many rambos,it just differs from server to server
Sounds easy. It's not, and at the same time it is.
Just let your rines go off killing res and once you have a specific place in mind order them over there, to say take a res node or kill a res node. Killing all the alien's RTs makes them build defense at their RT's to keep them for longer. Which is what you want them to do, waste res! you can take the res time that they spent building defense to get lvl2 armor or a PG. Putiing them of defense gets rid of a lot of the aliens nasty little tricks.
In short, shoot first, kill first, live longest (no I don't mean 3hr games.)
Um, you were locking down all 3 hives? And gorges started using their 2-hive ability to take down your base, when they didn't have any hives at all?
Going from a 3 hive lockdown with 6 rts and HAs everywhere to fending off onos in a last stand at your base, becuase of nothing but gorges, is a real pain in the @#$...
I really REALLY hate how you can gorge up on a ledge or in a vent with regen and just bile rooms like holo, processing, powersilo, other key choke points and double node rooms into oblivion without ever having a single problem. Heck sometimes you don't even get hit (i know, i do it too).
Not only that, you don't even need a hiding spot, just build some dc and maybe one or two ocs in case some marines rush, and bile twice, heal, rinse, repeat, until the whole place is gone. I think bile bomb is just way too uber for it's own good nowadays...I'd be happy if web and bilebomb traded places...but everyone seems to think i'm crazy. I say take out those electrified rts with OCs, and leave bile bombs for hive3. (Before i go mad!) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, we were playing Bast and in the EM Drill Shaft there's a little tiny bitty light sticking out way up on the wall. WAY up on the wall. Some gorge managed to build a sensory up there with an o chamber on top... I was impressed. Talk about pwning the marines...
any competent amrines should know how to kill a gorge quickly.
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What if you don't have the res to give him a GL? Even then you need the right aim, and a lot of the people i've seen are very bad with GL...not only that gorges tend to run away when under fire, especially from nades. Trust me it's happened like 5 times to me. Gorges pop up at every outpost i have simultaneously, and the marines can shoot all they want, they won't kill a regen gorge with nearby DCs. Before they know it the TF is gone and the skulks/fades come in and finish the job. Static marine defences are all but useless in 2.0 unless you make absolutely sure the TF is in a bile proof sopt and spam 8 turrets around it (depending on your weapons level).
People are always comparing the res something costs compared to its counter. A marine RT + electrification costs 50 resources (+40-50 res again if you turret up a little as some comms do). A gorge costs 10. Even if a gorge is easily killable if he's not smart about where he goes, it's like a stock marine with a shotty killing a big WOL. I also find webs absolutly useless at 3 hives IMO. By then any decent marine team will have HA, and be passing around at least SOME welders in every squad they send out. Bile bomb is a game ending ability, just like acid rockets and primal scream. These are all great abilities that wreak havoc on marines. So why is bile bomb the only one of these available 3-4 minutes into every game?
in short, a gorge can make up his worth even if he just blindly rushes into a wall of turrets bile bombing, as he will most likely take out at least one to two turrets before he dies (or redeems).
(also by 3 hive lockdown i meant two, though i did have a seige going up outside their last hive, which also went down...)